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Posted: 4/20/2017 1:06:23 AM EDT
Maj. Aron Hauquitz told Military Times Tuesday that SOCOM is in the preliminary stages of exploring a sniper rifle chambered in the 6.5 mm caliber.
The two commercially available rounds being evaluated are the .260 Remington and the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.



https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/04/19/socom-looks-to-ditch-762-nato-for-65/
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:19:18 AM EDT
Quoted:
Maj. Aron Hauquitz told Military Times Tuesday that SOCOM is in the preliminary stages of exploring a sniper rifle chambered in the 6.5 mm caliber.
The two commercially available rounds being evaluated are the .260 Remington and the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/04/19/socom-looks-to-ditch-762-nato-for-65/
View Quote


Good.  Lose the .308Failchester as an MG round too.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:22:25 AM EDT
I'd love to see either 6.5C or 260 employed.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:26:47 AM EDT
I like rounds like creedmore but hate spending triple the price for a good round. Sure would be nice to have at milsurp prices.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:27:15 AM EDT
They should get Hk 416 in 6.8spc.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:37:06 AM EDT
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:46:26 AM EDT
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Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
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Yeah, and the fad happened about a century ago.  Then everyone got stupid and jumped off of the band wagon to sacrifice about 5-6 decades of small arms and cartridge design on the altar of the .30 rifle bullet.  
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:50:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:
They should get Hk 416 in 6.8spc.
View Quote
Personally, I rock a LWRCi Six8. I really like it for the awesome ambi controls, nifty piston (for suppressed use), dedicated polymer magazines and hard hitting caliber.

The 140gr burger VLD loads are great at long range. But this SOCOM requirement is likely geared towards longer range antipersonal use. I would have to ponder some ballistic tables before putting the 6.8 SPC against the 6.5 Creedmore. They are really different animals.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:54:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
View Quote
Lol, a fad caliber that absolutely dominates nearly every long rance precision match it's allowed to compete in, and has for some time.  Get a clue.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:57:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Good.  Lose the .308Failchester as an MG round too.
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I wonder how easily our current stock of 240s could be rechambered for 6.5. Hope the engineers here can enlighten us.

Logistics aside. I doubt 7.62 NATO is going anywhere as the military will probably want to keep the penatration it provides.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:57:56 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Lol, a fad caliber that absolutely dominates nearly every long rance precision match it's allowed to compete in, and has for some time.  Get a clue.
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SOCOM wants a 6mm or 6.5 lapua ?What the pros use
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:59:27 AM EDT
6.5x55 or 7mm08
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:59:53 AM EDT
They're only a few decades late to the party.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:04:49 AM EDT
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Quoted:


I wonder how easily our current stock of 240s could be rechambered for 6.5. Hope the engineers here can enlighten us.

Logistics aside. I doubt 7.62 NATO is going anywhere as the military will probably want to keep the penatration it provides.
View Quote
I'm no engineer, but I know an M240 barrel can be swapped out pretty quickly.  And that's pretty much all that's involved.

As for penetration... how much would be lost by going to slightly lighter (but with better sectional density) bullets going a little faster?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:07:59 AM EDT
Quoted:
Maj. Aron Hauquitz told Military Times Tuesday that SOCOM is in the preliminary stages of exploring a sniper rifle chambered in the 6.5 mm caliber.
The two commercially available rounds being evaluated are the .260 Remington and the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/04/19/socom-looks-to-ditch-762-nato-for-65/
View Quote


Why? They already have different calibers available. 300 rm, .338... etc
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:10:13 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Why? They already have different calibers available. 300 rm, .338... etc
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maj. Aron Hauquitz told Military Times Tuesday that SOCOM is in the preliminary stages of exploring a sniper rifle chambered in the 6.5 mm caliber.
The two commercially available rounds being evaluated are the .260 Remington and the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/04/19/socom-looks-to-ditch-762-nato-for-65/


Why? They already have different calibers available. 300 rm, .338... etc
Neither of those fit in a ".308 AR-pattern" magwell.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:10:25 AM EDT
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Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
View Quote
Wut
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:13:48 AM EDT
Yeah, split the difference and go 6.5-06
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:41:07 AM EDT
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Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
View Quote
.260 Remington was introduced 20 years ago and was a wildcat long before that. The 6.5 Creedmoor has been out for a decade and has been widely adopted. Hardly a fad.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:02:09 AM EDT
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Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
View Quote
Math isn't a fad.

I hope they go with 6.5 CM just due to the range of rounds available.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:15:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Lol, a fad caliber that absolutely dominates nearly every long rance precision match it's allowed to compete in, and has for some time.  Get a clue.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
fad caliber.

lets jump on the band wagon.
Lol, a fad caliber that absolutely dominates nearly every long rance precision match it's allowed to compete in, and has for some time.  Get a clue.
Yep, they are excellent for long range accuracy. Of course, that isn't really the only concern for a military cartridge, now is it?  Doesn't do much good to hit a target at long range and not have enough energy to kill.  So while the accuracy potential is higher, the lethality is not, so why throw away hundreds of millions of dollars to make the change?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:20:23 AM EDT
The only concernsolution I see would be barrel life. The 6.5s are about half that of .308 and then you talk about making a 6.5 MG? Barrel burner for sure...it was also mentioned by someone else but the .308 has better penetration but I'm sure bullet engineers could bring the 6.5 up to speed.

I don't own any 6.5s but I have been in matches and seen what advantages they hold. It would definitely be an upgrade for snipers and designated marksmen.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:21:26 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Yep, they are excellent for long range accuracy. Of course, that isn't really the only concern for a military cartridge, now is it?  Doesn't do much good to hit a target at long range and not have enough energy to kill.  So while the accuracy potential is higher, the lethality is not, so why throw away hundreds of millions of dollars to make the change?
View Quote
Looking at BC and SD of 6.5 vs 308 I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. Having seen ground squirrels and rock chucks shot at 1k plus yards with the 6.5 and only being slightly dazed by it even when shot in the face I agree that it's not a killing round.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:26:47 AM EDT
You guys crack me up. It's SOCOM looking for a replacement in a SASS and bolt action rifles. Not SAWS and mainstream infantry.

Shouldn't surprise me, it's GD.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:27:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:29:58 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Good.  Lose the .308Failchester as an MG round too.
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I'd love to see a 6.5 Creedmoor 240. That would be friggin sweet.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:33:09 AM EDT
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Quoted:
They should get Hk 416 in 6.8spc.
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I sense someone is baiting @JogLee...

Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:38:12 AM EDT
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Quoted:
You guys crack me up. It's SOCOM looking for a replacement in a SASS and bolt action rifles. Not SAWS and mainstream infantry.

Shouldn't surprise me, it's GD.
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FFS. We're just brain storming the idea.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:38:24 AM EDT
Eventually we will get to the .270 which, following WWII, was found to be the ideal military rifle caliber. Hell, even the original Grand was in .276, which was right about there. We've been dicking around for damn near a century on trying to find the best caliber and it's been covered ad nasaum in books for decades. Maybe, noone can read is the problem.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 3:42:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 4:23:10 AM EDT
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Quoted:


.280 British
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If the M14 program had crashed and burned as it should have, what with all the lies, BS, and failures therein, and the AR-10 adopted in .280 British (not the .280/30 variant, either) or its .270 British sibling, the US Army would have been a lot better off in the early Cold War, from a standpoint of the individual Soldier's rifle.

IMO, of course.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 6:39:41 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Eventually we will get to the .270 which, following WWII, was found to be the ideal military rifle caliber. Hell, even the original Grand was in .276, which was right about there. We've been dicking around for damn near a century on trying to find the best caliber and it's been covered ad nasaum in books for decades. Maybe, noone can read is the problem.
View Quote
Douglas MacArthur is the reason the 30-06 became THE cartridge here in the U.S. As Chief of Staff of the Army he decided that the new M1 Garand would be chambered in 30-06 due to the millions of rounds held in storage by the post WWI Army. They simply didn't have the budget to change calibers in the Twentys.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 6:56:32 AM EDT
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Quoted:
They should get Hk 416 in 6.8spc.
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Are you trying to summon him?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:12:17 AM EDT
6.5 Creedmor has a sharper shoulder than the 260, I'm curious how it would feed in a semi auto application.

260 Rem would be pretty much plug and play in a bolt or semi rifle.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:18:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:
6.5 Creedmor has a sharper shoulder than the 260, I'm curious how it would feed in a semi auto application.

260 Rem would be pretty much plug and play in a bolt or semi rifle.
View Quote
I agree.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:21:49 AM EDT
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Quoted:


I'm no engineer, but I know an M240 barrel can be swapped out pretty quickly.  And that's pretty much all that's involved.

As for penetration... how much would be lost by going to slightly lighter (but with better sectional density) bullets going a little faster?
View Quote
Hmm I think the feed tray would need some sort of altering
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:23:48 AM EDT
.338 luapa
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:24:15 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Looking at BC and SD of 6.5 vs 308 I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. Having seen ground squirrels and rock chucks shot at 1k plus yards with the 6.5 and only being slightly dazed by it even when shot in the face I agree that it's not a killing round.
View Quote
1,000+ yard small varmint / small game shots?  Yeah I'm calling bullshit on that.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:30:14 AM EDT
Didn't LaRue make the .260 OBR for a military contract or am I misremembering something
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:31:06 AM EDT
I'd love to see them adopt 260, it's a great round. And having surplus 260 ammo to get would be awesome.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:31:29 AM EDT
Given that 260 and 6.5 are ballistic cousins of each other, it's going to come down to cost. Although tooling up a small line at Lake City for either of those rounds wouldn't cost much in theory, by military standards.
With precision ammunition so much of it's efficacy is in its consistency. I really hope they get this right if the military makes a big switch.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:31:31 AM EDT
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Quoted:
6.5 Creedmor has a sharper shoulder than the 260, I'm curious how it would feed in a semi auto application.

260 Rem would be pretty much plug and play in a bolt or semi rifle.
View Quote
^^^^^^^
This.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:33:27 AM EDT
Socom isn't looking for a MG because of the cost to performance increase ratio. GD always has to take it to the next level of uninformed silliness.

A new MG is a major undertaking where the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Minor small arms performance increases that delight gun nerds are rather unimportant on the combined arms battlefield where there are many options for long range fires beyond small arms alone. CAS, Tube arty, mortars, javelin, tripod MGs, etc

Such a project would mean at minimum a new feed tray, top cover, feed pawls, operating springs and a new disengrating belt link design as well as the new ammo which would be needed in ball and tracers a minimum. AP and API would also be desirable.

Everyone one of these subsystems has to be tested independtly and with one another.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:41:47 AM EDT
I think 6.5 Grendel would be better.

Does .260 Remington fit in a standard AR-15 pattern or does it need AR-10 dimensions?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:49:56 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I think 6.5 Grendel would be better.

Does .260 Remington fit in a standard AR-15 pattern or does it need AR-10 dimensions?
View Quote
AR10
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:53:28 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I think 6.5 Grendel would be better.

Does .260 Remington fit in a standard AR-15 pattern or does it need AR-10 dimensions?
View Quote


.260 started life as a .308 wildcat, so AR-10 pattern.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:56:13 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Douglas MacArthur is the reason the 30-06 became THE cartridge here in the U.S. As Chief of Staff of the Army he decided that the new M1 Garand would be chambered in 30-06 due to the millions of rounds held in storage by the post WWI Army. They simply didn't have the budget to change calibers in the Twentys.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Eventually we will get to the .270 which, following WWII, was found to be the ideal military rifle caliber. Hell, even the original Grand was in .276, which was right about there. We've been dicking around for damn near a century on trying to find the best caliber and it's been covered ad nasaum in books for decades. Maybe, noone can read is the problem.
Douglas MacArthur is the reason the 30-06 became THE cartridge here in the U.S. As Chief of Staff of the Army he decided that the new M1 Garand would be chambered in 30-06 due to the millions of rounds held in storage by the post WWI Army. They simply didn't have the budget to change calibers in the Twentys.
Looks like he made the right choice at the time.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:57:25 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Socom isn't looking for a MG because of the cost to performance increase ratio. GD always has to take it to the next level of uninformed silliness.

A new MG is a major undertaking where the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Minor small arms performance increases that delight gun nerds are rather unimportant on the combined arms battlefield where there are many options for long range fires beyond small arms alone. CAS, Tube arty, mortars, javelin, tripod MGs, etc

Such a project would mean at minimum a new feed tray, top cover, feed pawls, operating springs and a new disengrating belt link design as well as the new ammo which would be needed in ball and tracers a minimum. AP and API would also be desirable.

Everyone one of these subsystems has to be tested independtly and with one another.
View Quote
The government loves spending money.
And GD loves telling them how to do it.
Like the 6.8 guy above. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the .mil already come out years ago and say adopting the 6.8 wasn't feasable for cost and performance reasons?
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 7:58:59 AM EDT
cheap once fired US mil 6.5 creemore brass


Mmmm

Link Posted: 4/20/2017 8:03:39 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Looking at BC and SD of 6.5 vs 308 I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. Having seen ground squirrels and rock chucks shot at 1k plus yards with the 6.5 and only being slightly dazed by it even when shot in the face I agree that it's not a killing round.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Yep, they are excellent for long range accuracy. Of course, that isn't really the only concern for a military cartridge, now is it?  Doesn't do much good to hit a target at long range and not have enough energy to kill.  So while the accuracy potential is higher, the lethality is not, so why throw away hundreds of millions of dollars to make the change?
Looking at BC and SD of 6.5 vs 308 I can definitely see how you would come to that conclusion. Having seen ground squirrels and rock chucks shot at 1k plus yards with the 6.5 and only being slightly dazed by it even when shot in the face I agree that it's not a killing round.
I'm guessing you saw a near miss and the debris from the round impacting the ground hit the varmint, not the bullet. 
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 8:04:41 AM EDT
.260 carbine/.260 LMG/.260 sniper. .260 everything.

Put Americans to work/buy American.

Change everything. Make billions of rounds. Force NATO to adopt new standard round if we are to continue disproportionately buoying NATO. Export sales.

MAGA.
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