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Posted: 9/29/2004 10:17:07 PM EST
I recently played hell trying to ship an upper and some ammo Via UPS. It seems that UPS has Adopted a very Anti Second amendment stance since the expiration of the AWB.

I was told that they no-longer ship parts to semiautomatic weapons and then given the run around. They also told me that they have a policy of not shipping any ammo larger than .45 caliber. I was shipping a .50 beowulf upper and ammo.

I eventually got them to ship the upper by shipping from a different location and decribing the contents of the box, only as "Upper receiver".

I argued with the manager of the hub for the better part of an hour about the .50 beowulf ammo. I finally asked him if they ever shipped 12gauge shells. He replied that of course they did. I then Informed him that they were approximately .68 caliber an that this violates his own policy. He eventually shipped the ammo just to shut me up.

I would have dropped UPS right away, but the nearest Fed Ex shipping location is some 35 miles away and I didn't have an account with them, so they wouldn't pick up directly form my house.

I WILL NEVER USE THE BASTARDS AGAIN. FED EX FROM NOW ON I RECKON.... I guess I'll have to set up an account.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:18:36 PM EST
Check into this, normally in circumstances like this its one anti gun fuckhead whos lying to you.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:19:17 PM EST
I dont care for them, I ship stuff FedEx when I can.

I was tricked today. I got woken up at noon by someone at the door.

It must be UPS with my Hakim, was the neighbor wanted to use my phone, his power was off
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:20:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Check into this, normally in circumstances like this its one anti gun fuckhead whos lying to you.

Well, I called the Ups main number when I first had troube. Was told basically the same shit.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:21:49 PM EST
Most, if not all, of the bullshit from UPS reguarding firearms stems from their fear of lawsuits.

Hopefully we will get meaningfull tort reform from the next congress
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:23:41 PM EST
Did you go to UPS or to the UPS Store(mail boxes etc)? because I just recieved some stuff today, including a Colt AR, and it all came by UPS.

I can remember as a driver the only time when we asked what was in a package is when they had a High Dollar amount for insured packages <eg> fur coats........ stuff like that.
They want that dollar, they really dont care what's in that package unless it is HAZMAT
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:28:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Did you go to UPS or to the UPS Store(mail boxes etc)? because I just recieved some stuff today, including a Colt AR, and it all came by UPS.

I can remember as a driver the only time when we asked what was in a package is when they had a High Dollar amount for insured packages <eg> fur coats........ stuff like that.
They want that dollar, they really dont care what's in that package unless it is HAZMAT




I went to The UPS HUB( where you have to go to ship ammo), not one of the little outlet stores, They won't take ammo at the little stores.

Search the Ak Discussion Forum, Looks like OBERSHUTZE916 ran into the same crap that I did
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:12:41 PM EST
Just list gun parts as "machine parts". They are not the gun. They are just parts. Don't declare something just to make things harder on yourself.

Ammo is a different matter, but suffice to say that you should have no problem shipping ammo. Done it hundreds of times.

If a customer counter dick gives you a hard time, ask to use their phone to call UPS main customer service line. Have them talk to their own company to learn the error of their ways. It works. I've straightened 2 overzealous idiots out of the idea that UPS doesn't ship guns.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 2:50:40 AM EST
"aluminum forgings"
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:00:52 AM EST
Machine parts. That's the ticket.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:03:49 AM EST
I always put machine parts because "they are". The biggest irony we have here is I visit my friend who is a Class 3 Dealer (birck and motar) pretty frequently and UPS is in there all the time delivering ammo, parts and guns. It's obvious by the name of his business what's inside.

Bomber
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:14:30 AM EST
You know what...I'm not going to lie to UPS, so that I can get around their anti-gun stance and then pay them to ship it. I don't ship ammo or whole guns.

Hence I ship with the Postal Service. All they ask is if the package is fragile or dangerous. Never what's inside.

In 10 years of dealing on the net, and shipping, USPS has NEVER, not once, lost or damaged a package. UPS has lost or damaged over $1000 worth of my items, and took me months to get my money from them.

Screw UPS...you can lie to them to ship with them and to pay them in you want, but I will not.

I only hope that UPS goes out of business in my lifetime so I can see it and enjoy it..

Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:19:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dog1:
You know what...I'm not going to lie to UPS, so that I can get around their anti-gun stance and then pay them to ship it. I don't ship ammo or whole guns.

Hence I ship with the Postal Service. All they ask is if the package is fragile or dangerous. Never what's inside.

In 10 years of dealing on the net, and shipping, USPS has NEVER, not once, lost or damaged a package. UPS has lost or damaged over $1000 worth of my items, and took me months to get my money from them.

Screw UPS...you can lie to them to ship with them and to pay them in you want, but I will not.

I only hope that UPS goes out of business in my lifetime so I can see it and enjoy it..




I agree......
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:25:44 AM EST
Has anybody checked out the new company "DHL"? Might be an alternative. They are just starting out and we may be able to set them straight before they go bad. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:32:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Has anybody checked out the new company "DHL"? Might be an alternative. They are just starting out and we may be able to set them straight before they go bad. Just a thought.



They are owned by the German government and should not be allowed to operate here.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:33:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:33:50 AM EST
UPS color is brown, because shit is brown.

SG
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:36:17 AM EST
These people (UPS) should get their shit straight. I just got an upper from Midway. Guess what, it came UPS. You think they give someone like Midway shit about shipping uppers? Sounds to me like they are trying to beat up on the little guy.

Next time, put something cold and shiny under the guys chin and then ask. Smile this time.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:36:31 AM EST


You wouldn't be lying. An upper isn't a firearm, it's just parts.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:37:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I am a dealer and UPS became such a hassle regarding firearm shipments I cancelled my account.



And you know what? I bet they didn't care one bit that you dropped them...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:38:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:40:00 AM EST
I dont know about UPS, but FedEx will X-Ray your package to see whats in it ....
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:41:48 AM EST
FedEX
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:42:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
I am a dealer and UPS became such a hassle regarding firearm shipments I cancelled my account.



And you know what? I bet they didn't care one bit that you dropped them...




Correct.

Basically they didn't want my business so they didn't get my business.

I'm sure we are both happier.



Anytime I order something, if I cannot get it sent Priority Mail, I will not buy it....no matter how much I want it..
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:43:39 AM EST
I've been screwed by UPS so many times that I not only won't use them, but will avoid vendors that only ship via UPS as well.

A friend of mine works for the National Gallery in DC and they have standing orders to not ship any item of value using UPS as their failure rate is so high that they cannot be relied on.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:47:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By psychotr:

Originally Posted By grywlf52:
Has anybody checked out the new company "DHL"? Might be an alternative. They are just starting out and we may be able to set them straight before they go bad. Just a thought.



They are owned by the German government and should not be allowed to operate here.



OK just went to the website and yes they are now owned by the Germans. Started out as a company in San Fran.

DHL decides it cannot transport an item safely or legally (such items include but are not
limited to: animals, bullion, currency, bearer form negotiable instruments, precious
metals and stones, firearms, parts thereof and ammunition, human remains,
pornography and illegal narcotics/drugs).

Nevermind
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:51:33 AM EST
I shipped a rifle through FedEx recently. It was a pretty painless process. I'll use them again.

I had noticed UPS is becoming more anti gun. They will no longer ship any firearms from an individual to a dealer. They have to go dealer to dealer. I haven't had any problem receiving any C&R orders from them.. yet...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 6:52:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 6:54:38 AM EST by Waldo]

Go to UPS and search for tariff

page 5 of the PDF


425
FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Firearms will be transported between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers and
licensed collectors, as defined in the United States Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618,
enacted October 22, 1968), as amended by the Firearms Owners' Protection Act (P.L. 99-308,
approved May 19, 1986, and a subsequent amendment thereto, P.L. 99-360, approved July 8, 1986)
(“the Acts”), law enforcement agencies of the United States or of any department or agency thereof,
and law enforcement agencies of any State or any department, agency or political subdivision thereof,
and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and
when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws. The shipper must affix a
UPS label, requesting an adult signature upon delivery, to each package containing a firearm. Adult
means a person 21 years of age or older. Handguns, as defined by the Acts, will only be accepted for
transportation via UPS Next Day Air Services, but will not be accepted for transportation via UPS Drop
Boxes, Internet Shipping, or in response to a request for On-Call Pickup Service. Firearms, including
handguns, will not be accepted when presented for shipment at a UPS Authorized Shipping Outlet or a
UPS Commercial Counter. Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be
transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172.





Parts are not firearms. I've dropped ammo at a UPS store (all properly marked) with a prepaid shipper.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:03:24 AM EST
While I have had fairly good results from "big Brown", their shipping prices are getting out of hand. When shipping an action to a 'smith for building a custom rifle I had to call it machine parts to get the local shipping store to send it. What this country needs is a shipping outfit that knows the laws and doesn't try to put their own political twist on gun owners rights.

UPS is actually refusing us our rights when they say "no firearms (because my director is an anti-gun pussy)". What needs to happen is a law suit against UPS for them preventing us from exercizing our constitutional rights. Or can a shipper do as he pleases? If they can pick and choose then we must pick another shipper.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:06:10 AM EST
DHL = airborne express being bought out.

I haven't shipped guns since the AWB expired, but haven't had problems in the past with UPS. If you want to ship ground, they are the only option. I wouldn't trust FedEx ground to ship a box of dog crap.

Around 90% of the packages I've received FedEx ground have been late, and 20% were lost permenantly, or required phone calls and efforts on my part to finally appear.

If this is true and there is a new policy with UPS coporate for semi-auto firearms, we are all screwed when it comes to ground shipping.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 7:28:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By gunman0:
DHL = airborne express being bought out.


And I refuse to do business with any company that can't do a better job with their delivery vehicles. I keep seeing these vans that are obviously airborne express, painted silver and have the logo on the side, that have a large yellow decal stuck over the airborne express logo. The DHL sticker doesn't even cover the old logo. It looks like Sanford and Son Delivery Service.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:19:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 8:26:13 AM EST by magnum_99]

Originally Posted By Dog1:
You know what...I'm not going to lie to UPS, so that I can get around their anti-gun stance and then pay them to ship it. I don't ship ammo or whole guns.

Hence I ship with the Postal Service. All they ask is if the package is fragile or dangerous. Never what's inside.

In 10 years of dealing on the net, and shipping, USPS has NEVER, not once, lost or damaged a package. UPS has lost or damaged over $1000 worth of my items, and took me months to get my money from them.

Screw UPS...you can lie to them to ship with them and to pay them in you want, but I will not.

I only hope that UPS goes out of business in my lifetime so I can see it and enjoy it..





Damn it, you don't have to "lie" but you simply aren't required to tell them what you are shipping (unless they ask, and they've NEVER asked me or unless it's an actual firearm and then you must tell them).

Otherwise, MACHINE PARTS is not a lie. They are machine parts. Don't you get it?


Oh, and I hate UPS. I use Fedex or USPS.

With USPS I've never had a package lost, stolen, or damaged. UPS has done all three to me.

USPS priority mail is a better deal and faster for most items.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 8:51:58 AM EST
UPS sucks, Fedex for me whenever possible.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:04:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Guns_N_Shizzle:
Most, if not all, of the bullshit from UPS reguarding firearms stems from their fear of lawsuits.

Hopefully we will get meaningfull tort reform from the next congress





I'm entirely out of sync with this board on this particular issue, I guess
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:30:00 AM EST
I shipped one yesterdsy ( rifle , complete minus a mag) and they give me a little grief for the first time . She said , " You know it's been on the radio not to take guns from anyone or gun parts." You are suppose to take it to a dealer and pay him to pay UPS to ship it . CROCK OF SH!T........better git want you want cause the anti's won't shut it up until it's F.U.B.A.R. ! They can't come right out and take your RIGHTS so they plan on making it A LONG WAIT , HARD TO SHIP , HARD TO RECEIVE , HARD to AFFORD , Etc , Etc. ! ....sounding familiar
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:30:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 9:32:45 AM EST by JCHammer]
I shipped one yesterdsy ( rifle , complete minus a mag) and they give me a little grief for the first time . She said , " You know it's been on the radio not to take guns from anyone or gun parts." You are suppose to take it to a dealer and pay him to pay UPS to ship it . CROCK OF SH!T........better git want you want cause the anti's won't shut it up until it's F.U.B.A.R. ! They can't come right out and take your RIGHTS so they plan on making it A LONG WAIT , HARD TO SHIP , HARD TO RECEIVE , HARD to AFFORD , Etc , Etc. ! ....sounding familiar Edit to say : Excuse the double tap . Thanks
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 9:45:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 9:50:19 AM EST by Thor340]
The NRA should start their own company to ship firearms. I use USPS when I ship to another dealer and Fedex when I ship to a C&R. I restore C&R firearms and have a Class 01 FFL. USPS says dealer to dealer is okay. I can ship a handgun next day air by FEDEX and it can cost me $45-$50 or by USPS and cost me $10, go figure. FEDEX has always been very accomodating to us but at $50 a pop, they darn sure should be!!! UPS has truthfully been like running a physical and mental gauntlet, I simply refuse to deal with these people anymore, I think that is their plan!
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:01:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By magnum_99:

Originally Posted By Dog1:
You know what...I'm not going to lie to UPS, so that I can get around their anti-gun stance and then pay them to ship it. I don't ship ammo or whole guns.

Hence I ship with the Postal Service. All they ask is if the package is fragile or dangerous. Never what's inside.

In 10 years of dealing on the net, and shipping, USPS has NEVER, not once, lost or damaged a package. UPS has lost or damaged over $1000 worth of my items, and took me months to get my money from them.

Screw UPS...you can lie to them to ship with them and to pay them in you want, but I will not.

I only hope that UPS goes out of business in my lifetime so I can see it and enjoy it..





Damn it, you don't have to "lie" but you simply aren't required to tell them what you are shipping (unless they ask, and they've NEVER asked me or unless it's an actual firearm and then you must tell them).

Otherwise, MACHINE PARTS is not a lie. They are machine parts. Don't you get it?


Oh, and I hate UPS. I use Fedex or USPS.

With USPS I've never had a package lost, stolen, or damaged. UPS has done all three to me.

USPS priority mail is a better deal and faster for most items.



Everytime I shipped with them, I was asked what it was I was shipping. They have taken upon themselves to police what is already policed to death.

I personally do not see them as "machine" parts...you can...but I don't...The last time I shipped with them, it was a gun, and it took a hour and 3 supervisors to clear it up and ship...Fed-Ex is not much better....

As for shipping everything else...I'll stick with USPS...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 11:43:43 AM EST
FedEx is just as bad about shipping firearms, the only people with either service that aren't having problems have just gotten lucky, as most of the problems are caused by ignorant employees who don't know what they're talking about. And I gotta tell ya that AIN'T limited to UPS...

I believe both have been flirting with the idea of requiring overnight air service for all firearms now, not just handguns. That's next up...

I'm through with politically correct crap. What you want is either prepaid shipping labels where you drop off the package and no questions are asked or just ship "machine parts" or "tools" from now on out... Could be a freakin ironing board for all they know...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:54:53 PM EST
Now I believe FEDEX is getting bad too! Wow, these guys will put us out of business. I think there is a plot to shut down the small business firearm dealer/gunsmiths in this country. We used UPS pretty exclusively to ship firearms to people that sent them to us to restore. They got exceedingly difficult to deal with over the 2 years we used them. We finally gave up and started using FEDEX. They used to greet us with a smile and be so cordial and shipped firearms fine. Today my wife was shipping a Luger for our business today and they said "sorry we can only ship dealer to dealer" In this case, it was dealer to dealer and luckily I had put a copy of my dealers license in the box and even after they had opened the box, then there was another 15 minutes wait while the FEDEX folks went in the back and had a conference before they would return and proceed to ship it. The lines got longer and more people had to wait longer. Another customer behind her was quizzed in depth about a piece of a cabinet he was shipping, "what the hey"? I wish there was a company that didnt ship anything but firearms. We looked their policy up again
www.fedex.com/us/services/express/termsandconditions/us/firearms.html
and it doesnt say dealer to dealer only! I hate to have to have an arguementative discussion with them everytime I ship a gun back! What a mess!
(Rant mode off)
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:58:57 PM EST
I use FedEx. People will try to tell you UPS is cheaper. Not true. FedEx is now after the merger with Kinkos. I just use the word hardware to describe the contents. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:04:40 PM EST
FedEx Ground instead of UPS Ground. About the same price.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:05:09 PM EST
My friend is another restoration gunsmith and he was doing something similar with UPS, marking the contents as "machine parts". They started opening up the boxes and then they know what the package contains. If FEDEX starts doing this the ruse is up. I think the alert is coming if they know you have a firearms business by cross checking your name agains previous shipments and/or if you are insuring them.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:10:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 1:16:46 PM EST by leelaw]
When I shipped my 1911 ot be chromed they gave me that bullshit. I had to explain their own rules to a maganer with 21 years of experience, by teaching them basic english (if/or statements) and reading out loud their own fucking regulations from their own book behind the counter.

They told me that I could not ship a handgun becaus eI'm not a FFL.. fucking idiots.

ETA: Has anyone checked out DHL's regulations? I've sent them an email and am awaiting an answer.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:15:02 PM EST
Since the ban sunset I have had a rifle, magazines and a case of ammo delivered by UPS to my doorstep.

Dennis Jenkins


Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Check into this, normally in circumstances like this its one anti gun fuckhead whos lying to you.

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 1:25:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ross:
"aluminum forgings"



High impact precision metalic delivery system.....Yes,they always look dumb founded!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 2:34:23 PM EST
I've found that the idiots working at the local UPS hub MUST have taken a class in "Bureaucratic Asshole 101". I stopped going there when they REFUSED to let me ship items back to vendors IN THE EXACT SAME FUCKING BOX IT WAS SHIPPED TO ME IN.

I now trot merrily down to our local UPS Store that ships ANYTHING for us, no questions asked, with a smile. We have a business account with them.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 3:06:45 PM EST
everything i ever recieved from bushmaster has been delivered ups.
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