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Posted: 4/16/2008 6:46:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/16/2008 11:23:11 AM EDT by AJ-IN-JAX]

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351456,00.html



WASHINGTON —  The Supreme Court has upheld Kentucky's use of lethal injections for executions.

The justices, in a fractured decision, rejected a constitutional challenge to the procedures in place in Kentucky, which uses three drugs to sedate, paralyze and kill inmates.

Executions have been on hold since September, when the court agreed to hear the Kentucky case. There was no immediate indication when they would resume.






Good, now maybe FL can put some death row criminals down.


---------------

ETA:

Here are the Judges' opinions.

caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=07-5439
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:05:15 AM EDT
By a 7-2 vote.  Which means it wasn't even close.  Ginsberg and Souter think any Death Penalty is wrong.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:07:32 AM EDT
Yeeeehaw. Now we can get back to work in Alabama
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:08:45 AM EDT
Fractured?  Please..........
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:13:58 AM EDT
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:14:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
By a 7-2 vote.  Which means it wasn't even close.  Ginsberg and Souter think any Death Penalty is wrong.



Unless you're talking about the unborn. Then she thinks death is ok.


--------

7-2?

That's not even close!!    

    "Fractured indeed"..........
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:21:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Meh, I'm a bit fond of the lethal injection of large quantities of Pb at high delta-V.

Where Pb=lead, not peanut-butter...  though I suppose killing someone with high velocity peanut butter (or even PBnJs) would be entertaining in its own twisted way.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:29:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:29:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
By a 7-2 vote.  Which means it wasn't even close.  Ginsberg and Souter think any Death Penalty is wrong.



Unless you're talking about the unborn. Then she thinks death is ok.


--------

7-2?

That's not even close!!    

    "Fractured indeed"..........


Actually, if you read the opinion and see the various positions of the judges and the concurrences, it is fractured.  It was not 7 judges all signing onto 1 opinion, with 2 dissenters.  It was:



ROBERTS, C. J., announced the judgment of the Court and delivered
an opinion, in which KENNEDY and ALITO, JJ., joined. ALITO, J., filed a
concurring opinion. STEVENS, J., filed an opinion concurring in the
judgment. SCALIA, J., filed an opinion concurring in the judgment, in
which THOMAS, J., joined. THOMAS, J., filed an opinion concurring in the
judgment, in which SCALIA, J., joined. BREYER, J., filed an opinion concurring
in the judgment. GINSBURG, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in
which SOUTER, J., joined.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:30:32 AM EDT
The fractured court refers to the way that the voting and opinions came down.  In this case, the majority opinion apparently was only supported by three of the justices.  Four of the justices supported the decision of the court but agreed with the rationale or the "majority" opinion in some way so they likely wrote concurring opinions.  This affects how much precedence this case can be given.  Also, although 7 of the justices agreed on the outcome of the case, there isn't a consensus on why the outcome is correct so I think that there is more of a chance that this issue could be revisited in the future to try to get a more definitive rule in place.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:37:41 AM EDT
Speaking of KY and jails....
<­BR>

Oh nevermind. I'm just a pervert I guess.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:40:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


Put them to sleep with IV injection
Place plastic bag over their head filled with laughing gas
Secure plastic bag firmly into place with zip ties

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:40:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:42:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:42:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Meh.

How humane and painless were they to their victim?

I've got a great idea. The condemned are drugged to make it painless, then they are executed in the same manner their killed their victim. Sounds like justice to me.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:43:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By civprod:
The fractured court refers to the way that the voting and opinions came down.  In this case, the majority opinion apparently was only supported by three of the justices.  Four of the justices supported the decision of the court but agreed with the rationale or the "majority" opinion in some way so they likely wrote concurring opinions.  This affects how much precedence this case can be given.  Also, although 7 of the justices agreed on the outcome of the case, there isn't a consensus on why the outcome is correct so I think that there is more of a chance that this issue could be revisited in the future to try to get a more definitive rule in place.


Yes.  The court wants/needs to rule on the death penalty itself; not the manner in which it is executed.  There was no good precedence in this case as it is really only a procedural issue.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:47:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:57:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


When the Founding Fathers wrote about "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" they still hung people and it wasn't considered cruel or unusual.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:00:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


Good thing there's only ONE wrong then.... that having been done by the criminal.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:43:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Two wrongs don't make a right.


No, but three lefts do.

-James
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:46:03 AM EDT
I thought this thread was about using K-Y during lethal injections.  How wrong I was.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:48:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lougorilla:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


When the Founding Fathers wrote about "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" they still hung people and it wasn't considered cruel or unusual.


Hanging isn't a sadistic means of execution.

I am sure if the more enlightened of our founders had had barbiturates and opiates like fentanyl at their disposal, they would have been happy to use them to minimize as much as possible the cruelty of execution.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:48:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
I thought this thread was about using K-Y during lethal injections.  How wrong I was.


I thought the same.

Read my above post.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:50:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Myke:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


Good thing there's only ONE wrong then.... that having been done by the criminal.


It is despicable to inflict suffering on any defenseless person.

Many people deserve to die, but torment makes the tormentor a despicable criminal and unredeemable coward and subhuman.

The supreme just punishment is taking someone's life, and the knowledge by that person that his life is going to end.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:27:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Myke:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


Good thing there's only ONE wrong then.... that having been done by the criminal.


It is despicable to inflict suffering on any defenseless person.

Many people deserve to die, but torment makes the tormentor a despicable criminal and unredeemable coward and subhuman.

The supreme just punishment is taking someone's life, and the knowledge by that person that his life is going to end.



It's really a moot point anyways. It's rare for a sate to even carry out the death penalty anymore. I'm just happy when they actually go through with it.

If you are sentanced to death, that doesn't mean you're supposed to die of old age waiting for the state to get around to killing you.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:35:14 AM EDT
Simple hanging by the neck until dead has been good enough for millennia, and it's good enough now.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:39:44 AM EDT

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomHighway:

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.


Amazing that such staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment would have no problem violating the 8th.

This is the same kind of hypocrisy that has the ACLU supporting the 1st but not the 2nd.  Don't fall into that trap.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 9:46:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lougorilla:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Meh.

How humane and painless were they to their victim?

I've got a great idea. The condemned are drugged to make it painless, then they are executed in the same manner their killed their victim. Sounds like justice to me.

"no CRUEL or unusual punishment."
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:11:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrkarp:

Originally Posted By TomHighway:

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.


Amazing that such staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment would have no problem violating the 8th.

This is the same kind of hypocrisy that has the ACLU supporting the 1st but not the 2nd.  Don't fall into that trap.


I agree, however don't fall into the trap that the method must be painless. That is not in there either. Obviously the founders didn't find the death penalty itself to be cruel but ant hills and wood-chippers would be.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:23:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrkarp:

Originally Posted By TomHighway:

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.


Amazing that such staunch supporters of the 2nd Amendment would have no problem violating the 8th.

This is the same kind of hypocrisy that has the ACLU supporting the 1st but not the 2nd.  Don't fall into that trap.


Thanks for the advise. However, I dont really see the violation of the 8th Amendment. Although there are many contrary voices (coincidently, often expressed by those that support abortion for some reason), the US generally approves of the death penalty. So, as a general matter, it is fine to end someones life as punishment for a crime. The 8th Amendment does not require that this be a painless process. In my earlier post, I am expressing my sentiments and hopes that these executions inflict the MAXIMUM amount of pain that the law allows. I guess I am just an "eye for and eye" kind of guy.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:28:28 AM EDT
Why not use 1 object that will paralyze, sedate, and kill an inmate in a fraction of a second? for pennies at that..
<­BR>bullet to head.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:49:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher15:

Originally Posted By lougorilla:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Meh.

How humane and painless were they to their victim?

I've got a great idea. The condemned are drugged to make it painless, then they are executed in the same manner their killed their victim. Sounds like justice to me.

"no CRUEL or unusual punishment."


Cruel and unusual is what happens to families waiting for justice to be carried out.

But I do see your point. You have to define what cruel and unusual consists of though. Some people think hanging is cruel and unusual, but that was the method being used when the founders penned those words, so obviously that wasn't cruel or unusual for them.

Rather then get "hung up" on the details, I'd just be happy if they actually carried out the death sentance that so many prisoners are waiting for.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 10:51:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypselus:
Simple hanging by the neck until dead has been good enough for millennia, and it's good enough now.  


Amen!!!
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 11:23:45 AM EDT
Bump.


Judges' opinions in fist post
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:08:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TomHighway:

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.


Are their other constitutional amendments that you feel we should trample and ignore because of your strong emotions, or just this one?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:18:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.



If it's "painless and humane" it loses its usefulness as a deterrent.

When bastards knew they'd end up dancing on air for a murder conviction, there were far fewer murderers.

A short drop and quick stop is also ecologically sound.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:37:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hammer2Fall:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.



If it's "painless and humane" it loses its usefulness as a deterrent.

When bastards knew they'd end up dancing on air for a murder conviction, there were far fewer murderers.

A short drop and quick stop is also ecologically sound.


That isn't true.

Surely you can understand that the death penalty does not deter criminals who don't think they'll be caught, or else haven't thought through the ramifications of being caught.

For all the things capital punishment is (such as just and right) it is *not* a deterrent for crimes like murder and that argument is doomed to failure.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:51:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:


I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.



Did these killers victims feel pain when they died?

If there is any pain as the result of the execution method used, tough shit....thats part of life.


We, as a society should not worry about the comfort of a condemned criminal. We have more serious concerns...like fixing roads and bridges...not worying about whether some jackass serial killer is going to feel some pain when he gets the hot shot.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 7:55:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lougorilla:

When the Founding Fathers wrote about "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" they still hung people and it wasn't considered cruel or unusual.


It was common sense to hang murderers and rapists back then.

But common sense isn't so common these days.

Cruel and unusual punishment back then was being slowly tortured to death.... like having your nuts ripped off by a hot iron
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:02:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By azmjs:


I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.



Did these killers victims feel pain when they died?

If there is any pain as the result of the execution method used, tough shit....thats part of life.


We, as a society should not worry about the comfort of a condemned criminal. We have more serious concerns...like fixing roads and bridges...not worying about whether some jackass serial killer is going to feel some pain when he gets the hot shot.



It would be cheaper to use a guaranteed painless form of execution like opiate or barbiturate overdose, and would also close the question permanently.

Surely you can appreciate that in the real world, until the problem is resolved by a method which is guaranteed to be painless, it will continue to be controversial and to distract from the more serious concerns you've brought up.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:10:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Storm6436:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Meh, I'm a bit fond of the lethal injection of large quantities of Pb at high delta-V.

Where Pb=lead, not peanut-butter...  though I suppose killing someone with high velocity peanut butter (or even PBnJs) would be entertaining in its own twisted way.


Why not use the chicken cannon they test airplanes with?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:11:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Surely you can understand that the death penalty does not deter criminals who don't think they'll be caught, or else haven't thought through the ramifications of being caught.



The hell it's not a deterent...

Scumbag will NEVER cause problems in prison..or murder while in prison....Scumbag will NEVER get out of prison and go back to a life of crime...because he is ....wait for it....DEAD

Besides, we don't have to spend money feeding and clothing scumbag for 20-30 years...or even the rest of his life.

Don't give me the argument about legal fees and court costs...if we streamlined the execution process...we wouldn't have to worry about that nonsense.





Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KT45:

Originally Posted By Storm6436:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Meh, I'm a bit fond of the lethal injection of large quantities of Pb at high delta-V.

Where Pb=lead, not peanut-butter...  though I suppose killing someone with high velocity peanut butter (or even PBnJs) would be entertaining in its own twisted way.


Why not use the chicken cannon they test airplanes with?


I got it...

Make the dirtbag watch this until he bashes his head into the cell wall and does himself in...www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8MDNFaGfT4
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:18:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Surely you can appreciate that in the real world, until the problem is resolved by a method which is guaranteed to be painless, it will continue to be controversial and to distract from the more serious concerns you've brought up.



Death is always going to be painfull in some way. Even a natural death can be very painfull. It's a fact if life.

Personally, I wouldn't care if they injected liquid draino into the condemned's veins.

Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:20:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hammer2Fall:

A short drop and quick stop is also ecologically sound.


No ozone depleting chemicals that generate greenhouse gasses in their prodcution.
Al Gore would be proud
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:33:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Surely you can understand that the death penalty does not deter criminals who don't think they'll be caught, or else haven't thought through the ramifications of being caught.



The hell it's not a deterent...

Scumbag will NEVER cause problems in prison..or murder while in prison....Scumbag will NEVER get out of prison and go back to a life of crime...because he is ....wait for it....DEAD

Besides, we don't have to spend money feeding and clothing scumbag for 20-30 years...or even the rest of his life.

Don't give me the argument about legal fees and court costs...if we streamlined the execution process...we wouldn't have to worry about that nonsense.



You seem to be confused about what "deterrent' means, and also about what I wrote.

I never gave you that argument. What are you talking about and purporting to respond to?
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:45:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lougorilla:

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
I thought this thread was about using K-Y during lethal injections.  How wrong I was.


I thought the same.

Read my above post.


KY is only for meat injections, and even then that is a luxury.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:48:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By TomHighway:

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.


I hope lethal injection hurts like hell. An excruciating, burning, stabbing, suffocating pain, just like the pain the assholes inflicted on their victims, on the victims' families, and on society in general that had to pay the costs of incarcerating their worthless asses for how many years until justice could be served. They should consider any pain they experience in their execution as society saying "FUCK YOU" one last time as they begin their journey to hell for all eternity.


Are their other constitutional amendments that you feel we should trample and ignore because of your strong emotions, or just this one?


And how is it that death penalty can be humane? Really, how is killing someone humane?

BTW--It's called the DEATH PENALTY for a reason. It's not the death sweepstakes or the death lottery or the death jackpot. Nowhere does the 8th Amendment say it's supposed to be painless.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:50:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By pv74:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Surely you can understand that the death penalty does not deter criminals who don't think they'll be caught, or else haven't thought through the ramifications of being caught.



The hell it's not a deterent...

Scumbag will NEVER cause problems in prison..or murder while in prison....Scumbag will NEVER get out of prison and go back to a life of crime...because he is ....wait for it....DEAD

Besides, we don't have to spend money feeding and clothing scumbag for 20-30 years...or even the rest of his life.

Don't give me the argument about legal fees and court costs...if we streamlined the execution process...we wouldn't have to worry about that nonsense.



You seem to be confused about what "deterrent' means, and also about what I wrote.

I never gave you that argument. What are you talking about and purporting to respond to?


The death penalty deters offenders from re-offending...

Simply because the offenders are not available to re-offend.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 8:57:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By peekay:

Originally Posted By azmjs:

Originally Posted By Tolip:

Originally Posted By azmjs:
Lethal injection should be accomplished by means of barbiturates or opiates.



Barbiturates are used to initially knock the prisoner out.

I'm also curious why other means haven't been considered, though.  KCl will certainly kill you in a high enough concentration, but surely there are better ways of incapacitating prisoners beforehand.

I would still favor "narcotics + smashed head" to absolutely kill 100% of the time without pain.


I imagine a couple syringes of concentrated heroin or a suitable application of fentanyl would render the condemned dead rather effectively.

I don't believe it is right to inflict suffering on defenseless people in any circumstance.

I believe in the death penalty, but that is should be as painless and humane as is possible, something the current injection regime is not.

Opiates or excessive barbiturates are ideal. Even a combination of them.


Ask their victims about inflicting suffering.


Two wrongs don't make a right.


You know I was reading this thread and chanting 'I-am-in-favor-of-the-death-penalty' when you dropped this logic bomb on me.

How come I never thought of this before?!  Two wrongs don't make a right!  Duhh!
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