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Posted: 10/25/2013 3:04:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 3:06:06 AM EST by CAR_16]
What are the pros and cons of extending the end of the rail past the end of the barrel?

This would be on an SBR that is set up to run both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I an thinking 11.3" barrel and syrac gas block with either 12.37" rail or 11" rail. In either case, OD of can is less than ID of rail.

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Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:06:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 3:06:52 AM EST by efpeter]
Will the can fit inside the rail?

ETA-Yes- missed your statement.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:06:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By efpeter:
Will the can fit inside the rail?
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Yes.

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Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:10:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CAR_16:


Yes.

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Originally Posted By CAR_16:
Originally Posted By efpeter:
Will the can fit inside the rail?


Yes.

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All but one of my uppers have the can under the rail, allows better prone as well as bipod capability for the correct leverage. Enjoy!
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:14:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By titleiiredneck:



All but one of my uppers have the can under the rail, allows better prone as well as bipod capability for the correct leverage. Enjoy!
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Originally Posted By titleiiredneck:
Originally Posted By CAR_16:
Originally Posted By efpeter:
Will the can fit inside the rail?


Yes.

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All but one of my uppers have the can under the rail, allows better prone as well as bipod capability for the correct leverage. Enjoy!


Does this cause any issues when shooting unsuppressed? Is cleaning more difficult?

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Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:28:41 AM EST
I have always wanted to do this, especially if I could permanently affix the rail as a barrel extension to reach 16" and keep the rifle out of SBR status. However, I am concerned about the ability to properly mount the suppressor to the thread muzzle deep inside the "cage". It seems like you would loose the ability to make sure it wasn't cross-threading and to snug it up without over torqueing it. It also seems removing it could become difficult if a bit of heat fouling were holding it tight. I don't know, just something I am concerned about [://

Tagged to read real World experiences.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:38:37 AM EST
I just did this with a Form 1 30 Cal can. The OD of the can is 1.75" so the only rail I could find to accommodate that size was the Seekins MCSR V2 at 1.80" ID.

The barrel is 12" long, the can is 8" long and the rail is 15" long. I like the setup and it works pretty well, but the rail gets HOT. I anticipated this of course because of the small amount of clearance between it and the can, and I put an AFG on there to help as a result. It's a neat upper, but the downside is that it cannot be fired without the can installed.



Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:40:32 AM EST
I've never used one like that, but I know that cans get HOT AS HELL. I'm pretty sure that heat would quickly make its way to you handguard.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:41:03 AM EST
Bad idea if you ask me. Makes removing it if you have something like a Surefire or a M42000 etc a pain in the ass to remove. Not only that, you now have the possibility of putting your hand over an area where hot gasses are going to be flying out of when the suppressor is off. Unless that suppressor is dedicated 100% of the time on that gun, skip that idea.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:44:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CKxx:
I've never used one like that, but I know that cans get HOT AS HELL. I'm pretty sure that heat would quickly make its way to you handguard.
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Indeed! Without full atuo, it's probably not going to get hot enough to harm aluminum without direct contact, but plastic parts are in danger...

Either way, you don't want any part of putting your hand in the vicinity. I like the look though!

My .308 suppressor goes from cold to hot enough to cast a mirage (through a 20 power scope) in under 10 rounds.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 3:54:48 AM EST
I don't like it
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:06:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2013 4:09:18 AM EST by graysonp]
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:06:34 AM EST
Do you need that much rail space?
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:09:31 AM EST
I have a YHM wraithXL under a rail on my 5.5" 9mm AR. I've never shot it without the can so I can't offer much there. I can tell you that with a pistol caliber, heat will not be an issue in semi-auto. Can't comment on full auto.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:09:57 AM EST
I have no experience with the heat but I see a lot of guys making the bbl and rail the same length or abouts. (i.e. 9" rail with 9.5 bbl)

Then have a qd can mount/muzzle device that will put the unsuppressed blast outside the rail. Add a handstop at the end to keep from sliding to far forward and grabbing a hand full of burning can rape.

IMO this way is the most functional and still looks great.

Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:45:09 AM EST
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
I have a YHM wraithXL under a rail on my 5.5" 9mm AR. I've never shot it without the can so I can't offer much there. I can tell you that with a pistol caliber, heat will not be an issue in semi-auto. Can't comment on full auto.
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Pics!
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:48:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RTBA-8:
I just did this with a Form 1 30 Cal can. The OD of the can is 1.75" so the only rail I could find to accommodate that size was the Seekins MCSR V2 at 1.80" ID.

The barrel is 12" long, the can is 8" long and the rail is 15" long. I like the setup and it works pretty well, but the rail gets HOT. I anticipated this of course because of the small amount of clearance between it and the can, and I put an AFG on there to help as a result. It's a neat upper, but the downside is that it cannot be fired without the can installed.

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/righttobeararms8/Gun%20Pics/SuppressedAR1_zpsaf03d234.jpg

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/righttobeararms8/Gun%20Pics/SuppressedAR2_zps78493deb.jpg
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That looks sharp , I like it a lot


Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:49:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By CAR_16:
What are the pros and cons of extending the end of the rail past the end of the barrel?

This would be on an SBR that is set up to run both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I an thinking 11.3" barrel and syrac gas block with either 12.37" rail or 11" rail. In either case, OD of can is less than ID of rail.

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All I can tell you is that it looks fucking bad ass and I fully intend on my .300BLK build ending up as such. I already have the rifle-length tube on order.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 4:56:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Indeed! Without full atuo, it's probably not going to get hot enough to harm aluminum without direct contact, but plastic parts are in danger...

Either way, you don't want any part of putting your hand in the vicinity. I like the look though!

My .308 suppressor goes from cold to hot enough to cast a mirage (through a 20 power scope) in under 10 rounds.
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Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By CKxx:
I've never used one like that, but I know that cans get HOT AS HELL. I'm pretty sure that heat would quickly make its way to you handguard.

Indeed! Without full atuo, it's probably not going to get hot enough to harm aluminum without direct contact, but plastic parts are in danger...

Either way, you don't want any part of putting your hand in the vicinity. I like the look though!

My .308 suppressor goes from cold to hot enough to cast a mirage (through a 20 power scope) in under 10 rounds.


it does look sweet as fuck.. but i agree. getting a digit forward of that flash hider if the can is not there would SUCK!
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 5:16:50 AM EST
This is relevent to my interests.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 11:46:46 AM EST
bump for moar comments
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:08:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CKxx:
I've never used one like that, but I know that cans get HOT AS HELL. I'm pretty sure that heat would quickly make its way to you handguard.
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THIS.

My local gunsmith had someone who bugged him to do this for them, despite the gunsmith telling him the can would quickly heat up the fancy aluminum free float he wanted to cover the can with. Customer persisted and loved how the gun looked when it was finished.. But the came back after the first range trip to get the configuration changed after he heated up his handguard and hand with just one mag dump.
Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:18:13 PM EST
Why would you shoot without a can?

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Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:25:57 PM EST
I would do it on a dedicated suppressed upper. Otherwise, your options of cans/mounts gets limited to what you can thread on and off with the rail in the way. Also, if you shoot unsuppressed with a rail extending past the muzzle, you can damage your rail (there are pics of a shrouded brake/comp on here that ended up splitting the rail).

Shrouded cans look cool as hell. I built an upper/pistol with an 8.5" barrel, 10" Seekins BAR, and a KX3. The KX3 is partially shrouded, but the muzzle is still past the rail. When my can gets out of jail, it'll be partially shrouded to provide the 'seamless' look, but doesn't put you at risk of catching muzzle blast on a finger or damaging the rail unsuppressed in the mean time.


Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:31:52 PM EST

I'm in the minority on this, but its not my thing. But functionality over looks. Maybe guys who do it can tell us what makes it better functionally?


Link Posted: 10/25/2013 2:40:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KingOfTheBumps:

I'm in the minority on this, but its not my thing. But functionality over looks. Maybe guys who do it can tell us what makes it better functionally?


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Overall length vs useable rail space or hand positioning, longer sight radius. Aesthetics are the main thing for most people I think.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:01:09 AM EST
I decided to go with the 11" rail on the 11.3" barrel. Thanks for the input guys!
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 5:16:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By liquidsniperR6:
Bad idea if you ask me. Makes removing it if you have something like a Surefire or a M42000 etc a pain in the ass to remove. Not only that, you now have the possibility of putting your hand over an area where hot gasses are going to be flying out of when the suppressor is off. Unless that suppressor is dedicated 100% of the time on that gun, skip that idea.
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I agree, but my experience is that if it is a threaded suppressor or even an internal QD like the YHM its not a bad thing.

A ratcheting system like AAC or Surefire will not work.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:11:38 AM EST
wouldn't it make a difference what caliber you intend to shoot?


would a 9mm c a n be less of a problem under rail?
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:17:27 AM EST
This thread needs MOAR pics...
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:21:46 AM EST
Not a fan of having the muzzle beneath a rail, since I don't shoot it suppressed exclusively

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:22:39 AM EST
Be sure to get a rail that will fit over your can. I like the YHM diamond rails for this.
Just be sure, if you do this, to have a suppressor, MAKE SURE ITS DIRECT THREAD ONLY!

Doesnt work so well for QD cans.....
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:28:52 AM EST
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Originally Posted By N2CH_556:
This thread needs MOAR pics...
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Ok.

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:29:21 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Rob762:
Not a fan of having the muzzle beneath a rail, since I don't shoot it suppressed exclusively

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/1869/img2043c.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img51/3215/img2041kk.jpg
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What barrel length and caliber is your setup?

Nice rig btw
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:32:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BladedRonin:
Be sure to get a rail that will fit over your can. I like the YHM diamond rails for this.
Just be sure, if you do this, to have a suppressor, MAKE SURE ITS DIRECT THREAD ONLY!

Doesnt work so well for QD cans.....
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Internal QD like YHM's and 3-lug work just fine.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:40:45 AM EST
You'll need a rail fan.

Link Posted: 10/26/2013 8:42:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:

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Shrouded cans look cool as hell. I built an upper/pistol with an 8.5" barrel, 10" Seekins BAR, and a KX3. The KX3 is partially shrouded, but the muzzle is still past the rail. When my can gets out of jail, it'll be partially shrouded to provide the 'seamless' look, but doesn't put you at risk of catching muzzle blast on a finger or damaging the rail unsuppressed in the mean time.


Nice
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 9:14:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By N2CH_556:
This thread needs MOAR pics...
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I wish I could make mine all pretty and shit.



Link Posted: 10/26/2013 12:30:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:

I wish I could make mine all pretty and shit.

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6974/8mai.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/5199/cfbe.jpg
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Originally Posted By Zcwilkins:
Originally Posted By N2CH_556:
This thread needs MOAR pics...

I wish I could make mine all pretty and shit.

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6974/8mai.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/5199/cfbe.jpg


Sometimes ugly is sexy. If that makes sense.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 12:32:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MOS63B:

What barrel length and caliber is your setup?

Nice rig btw
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Originally Posted By MOS63B:
Originally Posted By Rob762:
Not a fan of having the muzzle beneath a rail, since I don't shoot it suppressed exclusively

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/1869/img2043c.jpghttp://imageshack.us/a/img51/3215/img2041kk.jpg

What barrel length and caliber is your setup?

Nice rig btw


Thanks,

It's a Noveske 8.2" .300 Blackout
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 12:35:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2013 12:36:48 PM EST by 98_1LE]


I love the way it looks and like shooting it, but there are certainly drawbacks. I use a PatchWorm to clean, and it isn't always easy to keep it from hooking into the slots in the handguard. Also not sure if long term the solvent will hurt the handguard. My suppressor, a Liberty Mystic, uses different mount. I ended up making the adapter semi-permanent with Rocksett. Before it was a crap shoot which threads would break loose first.

So while there are downsides, I would do it this way again.

I would never shoot this one without a can, and don't like the idea of the muzzle being in the handguard.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 12:36:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:

Overall length vs useable rail space or hand positioning, longer sight radius. Aesthetics are the main thing for most people I think.
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Originally Posted By HingleMcCringleberry:
Originally Posted By KingOfTheBumps:

I'm in the minority on this, but its not my thing. But functionality over looks. Maybe guys who do it can tell us what makes it better functionally?



Overall length vs useable rail space or hand positioning, longer sight radius. Aesthetics are the main thing for most people I think.

Correct.
Link Posted: 10/26/2013 1:06:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KingOfTheBumps:

I'm in the minority on this, but its not my thing. But functionality over looks. Maybe guys who do it can tell us what makes it better functionally?


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My 9mm barrel is only 5.5" which would make for a very short rail. My AFG is right at the end of mine, otherwise I'd probably go shorter for weight savings.
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