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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 12/31/2006 8:24:34 AM EST
Since ill be getting my first AR15 tuesday or wensday I have a question..



How do i go about getting an SBR? Can I just order the upper and then do the paper work or have to do all the paper work first? I wanna do like a 10.5"
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:27:06 AM EST
Paperwork first. Takes a few months but wait for it before buying the upper.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:28:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Paperwork first. Takes a few months but wait for it before buying the upper.


Not that I will do this, but can you order one without first doing the paper work (I seriously dont know), or will you be prompted to show the papers when ordering (say faxed copy to RRA or someplace)?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:29:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Paperwork first. Takes a few months but wait for it before buying the upper.



Correct answer
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:29:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By CZ75_9MM:
Paperwork first. Takes a few months but wait for it before buying the upper.


Not that I will do this, but can you order one without first doing the paper work (I seriously dont know), or will you be prompted to show the papers when ordering (say faxed copy to RRA or someplace)?



Yes, you can order it without any paperwork.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:30:36 AM EST
You can order it anytime you want. No paperwork needed. Legally it's best to wait. SBR paperwork is going pretty quick lately.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:31:29 AM EST
So, you can order sometihng thats illegal without doing paperwork.. Black helicopters show up if someone does this?

Or is the papers needed if you actually put it on lower (again, I dont know, im getting info )

(im crazy not stupid, so dont worry)
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:32:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 8:33:42 AM EST by UmpaLumpa]
I'm not sure about a SBR but I know the paperwork is the same as when I got my suppressed .22


You cannot have a SBR untill you get your paperwork back. Basicly your going to have to find a class 3 dealer to get the paper work done.

you have to have:

A finger print card with your fingerprints taken by LEO

Passport photos

You have to have a local offical sign the paper work It could be: by Chief of Police, or Sheriff, I'm not positive about these last two but I believe a County Judge can sign and also a District attorney can too.

Then you have take all that paper work and send it in along with $200
Then the hard part, you have to wait 3 months.

Once you get your paperwork back you can send your barrel off to be cut down.
You cannot do it before you get your paperwork back.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:33:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 8:34:05 AM EST by FieroLoki]

Originally Posted By UmpaLumpa:

You cannot do it before you get your paperwork back.



Ok, so im getting told 2 different things now... Whats right?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:36:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:

Originally Posted By UmpaLumpa:

You cannot do it before you get your paperwork back.



Ok, so im getting told 2 different things now... Whats right?


Well I should say you cannot legally do it before you get your paperwork back. It really depends on who you order from, some may require to see a copy of the paperwork, some do not.

Quite honestly its not worth the risk of losing your second amendment rights if you get caught.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:37:57 AM EST
You can buy the short barrel legally without filling out the paperwork since it is only considered "parts" by the BATF. Also it can be used to make a Ar-15 pistol which is legal to build if the lower is listed as a pistol on the yellow form without any additional paperwork.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:40:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 8:42:47 AM EST by UmpaLumpa]

Originally Posted By Blue_Dragon:
You can buy the short barrel legally without filling out the paperwork since it is only considered "parts" by the BATF. Also it can be used to make a Ar-15 pistol which is legal to build if the lower is listed as a pistol on the yellow form without any additional paperwork.


Be careful with this, while this is somewhat true. you need to make sure you do not have a lower with a stock on it, or the local DA could prosecute under the INTENT laws. Basically he could argue that you bought that barrel for only one reason, the INTENT to build a SBR.

ETA:

You need a lower that looks like this laying around, and from what I understand you also need proof that it has never had a stock on it. For you to be able to do this legally.

Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:41:50 AM EST
Having a short barrel with no legal way to use it could cause you legal problems, but, you can buy whatever barrel you want. AR pistols don't have any paperwork. You don't need a dealer for a form 1, you can do it on your own. It seems approvals are taking around one month now. Here is all the info you need.

SBR faq
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:41:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By FieroLoki:
Since ill be getting my first AR15 tuesday or wensday I have a question..



How do i go about getting an SBR? Can I just order the upper and then do the paper work or have to do all the paper work first? I wanna do like a 10.5"


www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199942
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:42:25 AM EST
The way I understand it is that if you have all the parts in one place and it can be readily assembled you can be considered as having an SBR illegally.

It's best to get your paperwork done first. No good to tempt fate.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:48:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 8:54:40 AM EST by DK-Prof]
Basically, you CAN order a short-barreled upper legally before having your Form 1 approved and back from the ATF. Most manufacturers do not demand a copy of your tax stamp (although a few do)

The reason most people prefer to "play it safe" is that having a short upper in the vicinity of a non-NFA lower could be considered "constructive intent" by the ATF, and so could technically be a crime.

The whole area is a bit unclear, since there is the additional murky question of having AR "pistol" lowers (as others have mentioned).

Once you get the Form 1 back from the ATF, an additional interesting question is whether or not to own multiple short uppers for one registered lower. I've currently got ONE registered lower, and MANY regular (non-NFA) ARs in the house. If I have two short uppers for my registered lower (one on it, and one replacement), does that somehow get into the area of constructive intent? I don't think so, but I would hate for the ATF to disagree with me.


The short answer is that unless you think you are going to be raided by the ATF, or you plan on posting picture of yourself on myspace with a regular lower and your new upper before you get the paperwork back, then there's not really any risk with getting the upper before you get the Form 1 back. However, if you want to "play it safe" and don't even want to risk some kind of technical grey legal area, then you should wait. (A clever compromise might be to just keep the upper at a different location - like work, or friends' house - until you get the Form 1 back from the ATF)
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:50:42 AM EST
Thanks for the info.. As I said, im no stupid.. But damn, an extra $200 for a 10.5" barrel is fucked...Oh well
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:55:44 AM EST
There is nothing illegal about purchasing and owning a short barrelled AR upper. As long as you dont' have an AR lower to put it on. So you can order an SBR upper and ship it to your mom's house (presuming of course she doesn't have an AR) and leave it there until the paper work is done. But if you take an AR lower over and install the SBR upper then you've built an illegal SBR.

If you have an SBR upper in the same place (house, buisness, etc) as an AR lower and don't have the approved paperwork then the ATF can prosecute you for "constructive intent." They have done this.

It's just so much easier, safer and wiser to do the paperwork first and then purchase the SBR upper after you receive the stamp.
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 8:57:02 AM EST
What are some good sites to buy from online?
Link Posted: 12/31/2006 9:07:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/31/2006 9:09:15 AM EST by Amish_Bill]
edit - (damn - sure a lot of other replies since I started this reply!)

You can buy a short upper any time you like.

If you only have one AR lower, and it is not a pistol, registered SBR or Machinegun, having that short upper makes you guilty of 'constructive possesion' of an SBR. (you have a combination of parts that, if assembled, can only result in an illegal configuration)

What you need to do for continuous legality, is to submit your ATF Form 1 to 'make' an SBR, and once it's approved and returned to you, buy the short upper.

As for needing to go through a dealer to do the SBR paperwork, bullshit. The required forms and steps are on the ATF website. You can also find the specifics of do-it-yourself ATF paperwork here and at Title II dotcom
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