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Posted: 9/13/2004 5:34:34 PM EST
Sent this via email to ORF earlier today. Thought I'd share here:

Hi. My name is Michael Branson, I'm an attorney in Kansas City, Missouri. I'm very excited about some of the things ORF is planning to do now that some of our gun rights have been restored. You may have seen me posting on the AR15.com message boards under the moniker "Duke Nukem". I had an idea yesterday that I'd like to share with you.

I'm very impressed with the craftsmanship and attention to detail at ORF. I'm also impressed with the can-do attitude. I know that when ORF begins to build Mp5/HK94 type rifles on their own receivers that they will be the best of their kind on the market (ok, considering the competition, maybe that isn't saying much, but I'm trying to butter you up here!). I plan to be one of the first in line, with cash in hand, when your plans come to fruition.

I intend to buy an ORF Mp5 type and submit the paperwork to register it as a short-barreled-rifle soon thereafter. As you know (and actually describe on your website!) there are two ways to SBR an Mp5 clone: 1. cut the existing barrel and re-crown it, or 2. pull the barrel, put an honest-to-gosh Mp5 barrel in the trunion, reweld the receiver and refinish the entire firearm. Obviously the second method is more "correct", more time-consuming, and more expensive. In effect, you are building the gun not once, but twice.

Thus the first part of my idea. You've seen the Special Weapons SP89 type pistols, sold without a forend to avoid AOW status. Abominations! However, if ORF were to build an SP89 type, classify it as a pistol, and sell it with the short barrel already installed, I could do the paperwork for SBR and when the paperwork came back, I could then simply add on the necessary folding stock and forward pistol grip and presto change-o, a semi-auto Mp5k PDW, no expensive gunsmithing required!

The second part of my idea followed quickly. If we could do this with an SP89 type, why not sell a special "SBR package" full size Mp5 with a buttplate and no forend, and the correct Mp5-length barrel, and classify the firearm as a pistol? The 50oz rule preventing such a gun from being classed as a pistol is no longer in effect as of, well, today! The user can then keep the firearm as a big-ass oversized pistol for as long as he wants to. Then, when BATFE paperwork arrives, the user just faxes a copy of his paperwork to ORF, who sends the user the necessary stock and forearm to complete the package.

There are only two problems with my idea that come to mind:

1. U.S. parts count under 18 U.S.C. 922(v), otherwise known as the '89 import ban. If you are selling guns without furniture in order to avoid AOW status, you can't use that furniture as US parts for the purposes of the import ban. So you'd be looking at 2 extra U.S. made parts necessary to build an Mp5 "pistol", assuming all the furniture on the guns is usually U.S. made.

2. ORF could simply build SBR type rifles from the get-go, and avoid this complicated arrangement altogether. The disadvantage being that customers would have to wait for the serial-number-specific paperwork to return from BATFE before the SBR could ever be shipped to them, so a gun-hungry fella would be seperated from his cash months before ever seeing his product. Hmm... how long does the SBR paperwork usually take to get back?


I understand that this SBR idea may be unecessarily complicated and there might be some kind of block to it that I'm missing entirely. I can't help it, I think like a lawyer! Please let me know what you think of my crazy idea. --Michael Branson / "Duke Nukem"
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:44:19 PM EST
Sounds like an awesome idea... Although, I have neither the money for a MP5 (ORF or otherwise) and barely enough for a $200 stamp tax.

I mean, it would beat the living hell out of Bobcat Weapons or Toady's line of "fine products."
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:47:37 PM EST
I want an MP-5/10 SBR with a retractable stock.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:49:30 PM EST
My local dealer allowed me to make payments over time to get my MP5.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:50:57 PM EST
I'm in!

Already waiting on a Form 1 for an SBR AR as it is, why not let the NFA branch become familiar with me!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 5:56:06 PM EST
That is an awesome idea! The SP89 can fit the MP5K foreward grip/handguard right? If so, it could be sold as an SBR or AOW package. Most will go SBR, since they will want the stock and foregrip, and not just the foregrip that an AOW will allow.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:06:41 PM EST
So guys, how long does SBR paperwork usually take? I really don't know.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:07:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
My local dealer allowed me to make payments over time to get my MP5.



YOU'RE KIDDING ME?!

Damn, who is this dealer?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:08:43 PM EST
David, texasgunstore.com
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:32:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
So guys, how long does SBR paperwork usually take? I really don't know.



Depends on the examiner, but most all paperwork (except form 3) takes the same length of time which is.... basically however long they feel like it. However with most of them if ou call at 90 days to check on it they'll say "hold please" then rustle some papers, then come back and say "oh i just happened to have approved you today"

So, count on 90 days. If you incorporate it can be much less time, as quick as a month or 3 weeks.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:45:45 PM EST
Neither pistols nor SBR have US parts restrictions. You plan is sound. Plus, if I'm not mistaken, ORF already makes and sells SBR Krinkovs, so a differnt type would seem doable.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 6:58:29 PM EST
Duke that is one awesome idea! I too will be jumping on the wagon for a MP5K PDW and MP5, but for the next year I'm only 20. I want those guns so bad I can taste them and I don't want to send off my hard earned money and not see my return for 3-4 months. I really hope your idea works and ORF will work with us on it.

Well I like you will be waiting to hear what their response is; so please post it.

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:11:41 PM EST
Duke,

You will have to get a C&R FFL, MO law. Which is only $30 for three years +$76,926 in Garands, Mausers, Mosins, etc....that you can get delivered strait to your door.

Good idea, I would pay the bucks for a real looking MP5.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:12:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
So guys, how long does SBR paperwork usually take? I really don't know.




I'll let you know when I get mine back
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 7:35:10 PM EST
Put me down for one MP5K PDW.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:28:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By drew5337:
Duke,

You will have to get a C&R FFL, MO law. Which is only $30 for three years +$76,926 in Garands, Mausers, Mosins, etc....that you can get delivered strait to your door.

Good idea, I would pay the bucks for a real looking MP5.



That's not a problem, I intend to renew my C&R when my three years is up soon. Its kept me very poor but oh well!

Here are the C&R guns I've refinished. The rest of my C&Rs are unmolested, I should take a pic of all of them sometime.


Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:25:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
So guys, how long does SBR paperwork usually take? I really don't know.



Depends on the examiner, but most all paperwork (except form 3) takes the same length of time which is.... basically however long they feel like it. However with most of them if ou call at 90 days to check on it they'll say "hold please" then rustle some papers, then come back and say "oh i just happened to have approved you today"

So, count on 90 days. If you incorporate it can be much less time, as quick as a month or 3 weeks.



I'll let you know on that. I sent mine in as my corporation about a week ago so we'll see. I hope you're right!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:18:50 PM EST
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