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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/1/2005 9:55:33 AM EDT





The flagship of Russia’s Baltic Fleet, the Neukrotimy patrol ship has been hit by a demonstration bomb and partially sunk in the Neva River in the center of St. Petersburg, the Kommersant daily reported on Monday. The incident happened just one day before Sunday’s Navy Day parade that was held in the city.

The Neukrotimy (“Indomitable”) arrived in St. Petersburg for celebrations to mark Russian Navy Day on July 26. On July 30, it suddenly submerged below its waterline, collecting water in its engine compartment, the Itar-Tass news agency reported.

Divers found a rupture in a weld joint and plastered it, after which the ship was moved to a dock for repairs, the agency said.

Kommersant, however, gave details of the incident which forced the flagship to be removed from the parade. The daily said that the sailors planned to make a show of destroying a dummy sea mine during Sunday’s parade. The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment. However, the current brought the bomb up to the ship’s hull together with the anchor and it exploded causing the Neukrotimy to partially submerge.

The Military Prosecutor’s Office has opened a criminal case under the article “careless handling of potentially dangerous items”. They said that the role and degree of responsibility of the military officials in charge of the preparation and conducting of training measures near the ship would be ascertained during the investigation.

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:57:22 AM EDT
oops
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 9:59:36 AM EDT
Someone's going to hang for that.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:02:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 10:02:45 AM EDT by SheepDog_556]
Hmmm...doesn't sound very "Indomitatble" to me.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:02:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Someone's going to hang go on a "vacation" and "catch pneumonia" for that.

Corrected for the Putin "old school" management method.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:04:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:04:13 AM EDT
The Kursk was destroyed by its own torpedo. Now the Neukrotimy?

Russian Navy is self-owned.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:09:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Divers found a rupture in a weld joint and plastered it.


That'll buff right out.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:09:50 AM EDT
Not to worry...as is quoted here on a regular basis.... " THAT"LL BUFF OUT"
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:12:17 AM EDT
see...told ya
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:14:11 AM EDT
The Russian navy should just quit.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:16:38 AM EDT
Wow, first the Russian Navy cant launch their own SLBM's for Putin and now this.

I'm so scared of Russian tech.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:18:36 AM EDT
It looks all the way sunk to me, is it sitting on the river bottom?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:18:58 AM EDT
Hold my Vodka and watch this........
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:20:40 AM EDT
Since when does a fleet have a FFG
as a "flagship?"
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:24:03 AM EDT
Do they have wheels on the bottom ?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:24:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Russian Navy is self-owned.



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:32:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Russian Navy is self-owned.








Ben
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:35:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Hold my Vodka and watch this........





Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:35:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Since when does a fleet have a FFG
as a "flagship?"



Budget cutbacks are a bitch.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:08:39 PM EDT
Looks like they cracked the hull but their internal compartmentalization held.

Not listing noticeably and not too deep in the water. Looks like they got several of their more competent people in the right place at the right time'

We've been known to do similar things. Not the least of which was the "bombing" of a fleet tug towing a target off San Diego.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 6:11:19 PM EDT
DOH!
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:39:06 PM EDT
Finally found a reference from hwww.mooj.com/rxdept_page4.htm

Does anybody out there know about the time the Big E bombed one of our own ships? During reftra off San Diego in early '78, one of our A7 squadrons dropped live ordnance on the USS CREE. The CREE had been towing a target (an old yard oiler) for bombing practice. The target had been hit and sunk by another squadron (I think from the Ranger), but the word never got to our A7's. When the aircraft showed up over the target area they mistook the CREE for the target and dropped three 500 lb bombs. One missed to starboard and failed to detonate. The second bomb missed to port, detonated and damaged the CREE's keel. The third 500 pounder was dropped just as the warning went out to the aircraft to "break off". It hit the CREE near the foc'sle, penetrated two decks, came to rest in a passageway, AND FAILED TO DETONATE!! I guess somebody on that tug had connections with the almighty.

Somewhere I have a picture of the Cree after this, the fail to detonate to stbd literally went through the pole mainmast. The mast was only about 6" bigger in diameter than the bomb, and why it didn't break off was a minor miracle, considering the radar and other antennas above the hole.Sat where you could see it from Harbor Drive in San Diego for a few months. Probably was a way for SurfPac to counter AirPacs efforts at minimizing the story.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:40:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Hold my Vodka and watch this........



Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:54:19 PM EDT
And THESE are the people that not only build the "advanced" weapons for the feared (at least on AR15.com) Chinese military but also TRAIN THEM IN THEIR USE!

Link Posted: 8/1/2005 10:57:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Hold my Vodka and watch this........









Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2005 11:07:00 PM EDT by NH_AR_Shooter]

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
Hold my Vodka and watch this........






Kommersant, however, gave details of the incident which forced the flagship to be removed from the parade. The daily said that the sailors planned to make a show of destroying a dummy sea mine during Sunday’s parade. The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment. However, the current brought the bomb up to the ship’s hull together with the anchor and it exploded causing the Neukrotimy to partially submerge.

Only 30 kilo's of TNT, what could possibly go wrong........
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:21:25 PM EDT
Only 30 KG of TNT? Sounds like Saturday night at the Hun Farm.
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:33:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Russian Navy is self-owned.





Ben


Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:39:02 PM EDT
The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment.

Someone needs to check the translation............... 30kg of TNT does not = "dummy" in most languages, i'm sure.

If 30kg of TNT is in a "dummy" what were the live ones loaded with?
Link Posted: 8/1/2005 11:45:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment.

Someone needs to check the translation............... 30kg of TNT does not = "dummy" in most languages, i'm sure.

If 30kg of TNT is in a "dummy" what were the live ones loaded with?



It depends on the mine, some sea mines have hundreds of pounds of HE other mines like limpets may have about 20 lbs.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:35:10 AM EDT
what? no comments from our german speaking russian member?
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:43:10 AM EDT
USS Cree getting towed in after being bombed. Ouch.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:46:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 1:48:03 AM EDT by natedogg42]

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
And THESE are the people that not only build the "advanced" weapons for the feared (at least on AR15.com) Chinese military but also TRAIN THEM IN THEIR USE!




EXACTLY

I have been saying for years that Russian tech is overrated. I am proven correct in every conflict worldwide for the past few decades but the Russian worshippers still rave about their uber-l33t equipment...up until it is massacred...then they make excuses.

T-72...feared like a mother fucker..gulf war...owned like a mother fucker...Russian apologists whine about "it was export tech", "bad crew training", "it was old"
Same shit happened with the MiG29, MiG25, russian helos aswell.

But we still have the Russian tech apologists raving about their
Su-xx (pretty much all the Su planes are upgrades to the Su-27 which has never proven itself...we upgrade our F-15As and call it an F-15C they upgrade an Su-27 and call it an Su-35 and add "super" in front of its previous name (Hornet style)
T-90s (which are T-72s with shitty reactive armor and a little bit of new electronics)
Their new attack helo that looks like a piece of shit and uses side by side seating which has been proven inferior to tandem seating...
Their anti tank weapons that fucking suck and are a generation behind ours...but because they have names like "Kornet" people think the must be Uber-L33t!1
Their ships...because someone likes saying Kirov or Sovremenny (sp) they whine that the sky is falling when china gets a few...except that our equavalent ship is twice as good and we have 10x as many just in that theatre.

Fucking Russian gear worshippers....

And I happen to like the AK-47
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:49:34 AM EDT
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:53:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.



That was 64 years ago...
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 1:54:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.



Shhh, let him go. The T-72's the Iraqi's had were more uprated T-55's..............

Not to mention the flat terrain over there is the absolute best terrain to use the US the long range weapons......................

According to him we should just be able to walk into N. Korea, practically unopposed.................

They are using the same gear.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:01:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.



Shhh, let him go. The T-72's the Iraqi's had were more uprated T-55's..............

Not to mention the flat terrain over there is the absolute best terrain to use the US the long range weapons......................

According to him we should just be able to walk into N. Korea, practically unopposed.................

They are using the same gear.



How do you know he isn't right?

The only things keeping us out are the belef that the NKPA will be as suicidal as the WWII Japanese and the very real problem of the terrain along their DMZ.

Weapons technology is NOT the problem, their AFVs ARE junk.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:19:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.



Shhh, let him go. The T-72's the Iraqi's had were more uprated T-55's..............

Not to mention the flat terrain over there is the absolute best terrain to use the US the long range weapons......................

According to him we should just be able to walk into N. Korea, practically unopposed.................

They are using the same gear.



The T34 was good back in its day. But, remember how well it performed during the Korean War (alright at the beginning...then completely OWNED once the US got decent tanks there..it did well against crappy American bazookas though) btw, even though the T34 did well against the Germans...1 for 1 it blew. While I dont want to get into a WW2 discussion everyone knows the Russians just overwhelmed them with typical communist swarm tactics.

Yes the flat terrain was good for the Americans. So what? The T72 would not have faired much better at closer ranges, it was decively owned at long range...it would have been equally screwed at closer ranges. It is underarmored, very unsurvivable, has a shitty main gun, and crappy electronics. In fairness to the Russians the T72 was probably better than the M60 but crew vs crew, the American M60 would still own a Russian or Russian trained crews

I never mentioned anything about NK. We could dominate them easily if nukes weren't a concern though. The problem there would be the mass of NK artillery. Even shitty artillery guns still throw explosives well. There are so many that it would be hard to destroy them all before they could perpetrate mass area damage (million of SK civilian casaulties). We could attack preemptively and probably get most of it though but that would be politically incorrect.

It would take massive recon satellites + U2 type recon (but that is done on a regular basis anyways) LOTS of MLRS, fighter sorties (NK air defense is a joke), lots of bomber sorties and precision counter battery fire by US forces. Do you think the NKs tanks will threaten ours? Are they still using T34s? They have what? RPGs for anti-tank. Their airforce is a bunch of MiG 21 era aircraft. You're right, I do think we could walk into NK.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Enigma102083:
*cough* T34 *cough*

but for the most part you're right.



Shhh, let him go. The T-72's the Iraqi's had were more uprated T-55's..............

Not to mention the flat terrain over there is the absolute best terrain to use the US the long range weapons......................

According to him we should just be able to walk into N. Korea, practically unopposed.................

They are using the same gear.



How do you know he isn't right?

The only things keeping us out are the belef that the NKPA will be as suicidal as the WWII Japanese and the very real problem of the terrain along their DMZ.

Weapons technology is NOT the problem, their AFVs ARE junk.




I simply refuse to believe that the NKs are like suicidal Japanese/ VietCong. They will surrender quickly just as Saddam's army did but I don't believe there would be much of an insurgency over there. The people aren't informed at all but they have to know that starving in the 21st century is quite a pathetic achievement for their political ideology.

The DMZ terrain is brutal but our engineers are very good. We could clear a few paths through (after enemy arty is effectively neutralized) as we did at the Kuwait border in GW1 and GW2 then charge for the capital with a big ass line of Abrams tanks mowing down the communists with the MGs....it would really be that pathetically easy. The problem is that unless it was first strike, the NKs could kill MILLIONS of SK civilians and possibly thousands of US troops. Though US bases are slowly being sent south of the DMZ (out of arty range) over the next few years...I doubt they have a delivery system for their rumored nukes but in 5 years they'll probably have them small enough to slap on rockets and lob south of the DMZ so all bets are off after that.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:25:20 AM EDT
If only 30 Kg of TNT was enough to sink it, just imagine what a Harpoon or Mk 48 torpedo would do to it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:26:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2A373:
If only 30 Kg of TNT was enough to sink it, just imagine what a Harpoon or Mk 48 torpedo would do to it.



probably blow it to pieces and sink the remaining half of the russian fleet with the concussion
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:57:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

How do you know he isn't right?

The only things keeping us out are the belef that the NKPA will be as suicidal as the WWII Japanese and the very real problem of the terrain along their DMZ.

Weapons technology is NOT the problem, their AFVs ARE junk.




If I had to classify it, a T-72 is a conteperary of an M-60, Leopard I, or Chieftan. Not the current "Western" tanks.

The Iraqi T-72's are further handicapped, by not having the up to the minute gear, the Russians would have. Do you think the Egyptian M1 Abrams are as good as US M1's?

Next, I wouldn't bet that most of the armies in that section of the world do 1 bit of PMCS.

If the Russian were going at us, I bet their troops would be taking much better care of their gear.

The T-72, at best, is a less armored, less armed tank than it's Western counterparts. Also I doubt the Iraqi's had any of the missiles they Russian T-72's would have, the ones that launch from the main guns.

The terrain favored long range weapons. Our could hit, a Challenger II hit an Iraqi tank and killed it at a 2.5 mile range. Our tanks excel at that.

In Korea, where the land is full of forest and jungles in steep terrain, there will be practically no long range shooting. It will be 500 yards. Those T-72's, esp with gun stbilization, CAN operate in that type of engagement much more succesfully than a 3 mile gun fight.

They also have dug in ADA, etc. Much tougher to find, let alone hit when it is dug into the side of a mountain. Even our wonder weapons need to ID targets before they can take them out. Gets tough when you have to search for "targets" that are part of a dug in integrated ADA system, on the sides of mountains, covered with all types of ground cover.

There AFV's may be much less capable than ours, but a lot of that adavantage goes away in close range combat.

Iraq, is almost custom built, for techno-weapons ability displays. The terrain is often flat, and open, the exact ideal place to employ our long range "smart" weapons. That doesn't mean it would be as effective everywhere.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 2:58:30 AM EDT

...The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment....


What a bunch of hotdogs.

Russian military demonstrations are hilarious. My favorites are the Army shows where they tie bandanas on their heads, Rambo-style, and throw their entrenching tools at each other.

My second favorite is the MiG-29's crashing into each other.

Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:15:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 4:32:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By natedogg42:

Originally Posted By 2A373:
If only 30 Kg of TNT was enough to sink it, just imagine what a Harpoon or Mk 48 torpedo would do to it.



probably blow it to pieces and sink the remaining half of the russian fleet with the concussion



Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:01:29 AM EDT
Hmmm, keep russian navy in shallow rivers...easier salvage...good idea!
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 5:36:23 AM EDT
This shit is hilarious!

I visited their naval base in Vladivostok back in 91 on a port visit. I, along with the rest of the wardroom were invited to lunck on one of their Sovvermenys moored nearby. We also had a chance to walk around the ship a bit. The things that stuck out at me like a sore thumb (comparing to our ships) were: shoddy worksmanship, the use of wood paneling in lots of places, the almost total lack of visible portable damage control gear.

I can almost guarantee you that Russian ships stand a much better chance of not surviving a hit that our crews could easily handle.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:09:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/2/2005 6:27:16 AM EDT by Bklyn_Irish]

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:


www.mosnews.com/files/9855/spb.jpg


The flagship of Russia’s Baltic Fleet, the Neukrotimy patrol ship has been hit by a demonstration bomb and partially sunk in the Neva River in the center of St. Petersburg, the Kommersant daily reported on Monday. The incident happened just one day before Sunday’s Navy Day parade that was held in the city.

The Neukrotimy (“Indomitable”) arrived in St. Petersburg for celebrations to mark Russian Navy Day on July 26. On July 30, it suddenly submerged below its waterline, collecting water in its engine compartment, the Itar-Tass news agency reported.

Divers found a rupture in a weld joint and plastered it, after which the ship was moved to a dock for repairs, the agency said.

Kommersant, however, gave details of the incident which forced the flagship to be removed from the parade. The daily said that the sailors planned to make a show of destroying a dummy sea mine during Sunday’s parade. The dummy, which still had about 30 kilograms of TNT in it, was supposed to create a huge splash that would spray the spectators on the embankment. However, the current brought the bomb up to the ship’s hull together with the anchor and it exploded causing the Neukrotimy to partially submerge.

The Military Prosecutor’s Office has opened a criminal case under the article “careless handling of potentially dangerous items”. They said that the role and degree of responsibility of the military officials in charge of the preparation and conducting of training measures near the ship would be ascertained during the investigation.




Do you have the link to that article?

Here is the one from Itar-Tass

*EDITED* Belay that...I found it.
Link Posted: 8/2/2005 6:54:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By natedogg42:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
And THESE are the people that not only build the "advanced" weapons for the feared (at least on AR15.com) Chinese military but also TRAIN THEM IN THEIR USE!




EXACTLY

I have been saying for years that Russian tech is overrated. I am proven correct in every conflict worldwide for the past few decades but the Russian worshippers still rave about their uber-l33t equipment...up until it is massacred...then they make excuses.

T-72...feared like a mother fucker..gulf war...owned like a mother fucker...Russian apologists whine about "it was export tech", "bad crew training", "it was old"
Same shit happened with the MiG29, MiG25, russian helos aswell.

But we still have the Russian tech apologists raving about their
Su-xx (pretty much all the Su planes are upgrades to the Su-27 which has never proven itself...we upgrade our F-15As and call it an F-15C they upgrade an Su-27 and call it an Su-35 and add "super" in front of its previous name (Hornet style)
T-90s (which are T-72s with shitty reactive armor and a little bit of new electronics)
Their new attack helo that looks like a piece of shit and uses side by side seating which has been proven inferior to tandem seating...
Their anti tank weapons that fucking suck and are a generation behind ours...but because they have names like "Kornet" people think the must be Uber-L33t!1
Their ships...because someone likes saying Kirov or Sovremenny (sp) they whine that the sky is falling when china gets a few...except that our equavalent ship is twice as good and we have 10x as many just in that theatre.

Fucking Russian gear worshippers....

And I happen to like the AK-47



Whew! As long as you don't bash the AK-47, I don't mind you criticizing the rest of the Russian gear.
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