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Posted: 9/8/2004 5:36:21 PM EST
We are not the only ones with conspiricy theorists, check out the last pages of this thread on Tank Net.
63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum8/HTML/012256.html
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:37:33 PM EST
Geeez...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 5:40:16 PM EST
There like here, 45 years of Cold War indoctrination dies hard.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:14:08 PM EST
There is a whole mess of Russians that have been in town the last few days . They gave a tour or two of thier ship , and have been going around town haveing a good time . In fact I helped cook dinner for the officers tonight . Nice guys as always when they come up this way .
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:16:23 PM EST
Well if some Americans can believe our .gov flew planes and shot missiles at the pentagon and the WTC, how hard is it for the Rooskies, who were indoctrinated with hatred for the US, to beleive that we fucked with em.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:17:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:29:13 PM EST
We ARE talking to the Chechyans. Their leader has been in hiding and I heard that our gov't is trying to get him to call off his dogs on the Russians before Putin does something stupid. Putin considers the rebel leader to be a terrorist and won't budge on talks. He compares him to Osama.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:30:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:42:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



We did let them do whatever they wanted in Chechnya, and still are...

Even without our interferance, they would have been run out of A-stan with their tails between their legs...

Chechnya isn't looking very good either...

If anyone ever says we should have a draft-based military, look at Russia and reconsider...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:53:38 PM EST
MOSCOW - President Vladimir Putin attacked the West for calling on Russia to seek political dialogue with Chechen separatists in the wake of last week's school hostage siege in which at least 335 died – half of them children.

Putin also ruled out holding a public inquiry into the storming of the Beslan school after a three-day stand-off with rebels who demanded Chechnya's independence.

"Why don't you meet Osama bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace?" Putin was quoted as saying by Britain's Guardian newspaper on Tuesday.

"You find it possible to set some limitations in your dealings with these bastards, so why should we talk to people who are child-killers?" said Putin, who spoke to a group of foreign journalists and academics late on Monday.

www.russiajournal.com/news/cnews-article.shtml?nd=45355

I was hoping that the US and Russia would stand together on this terrosist issue to put it to rest, but with the Russian media blaming the "West" on encouraging the rebels, it will be difficult. Damn media!
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 8:56:18 PM EST
Nice to see the Russians have there own GD "Tinfoil Hat" forum.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:06:48 PM EST
Stalin had the right idea with the Chechens
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:06:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



We did let them do whatever they wanted in Chechnya, and still are...

Even without our interferance, they would have been run out of A-stan with their tails between their legs...

Chechnya isn't looking very good either...

If anyone ever says we should have a draft-based military, look at Russia and reconsider...



Don't bet on them being run out of Afghanistan without our assistance to the locals.

And, what the fuck does this thread have to do with us having a draft????????? Damn, I mean, just damn. You have lost it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:11:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



We did let them do whatever they wanted in Chechnya, and still are...

Even without our interferance, they would have been run out of A-stan with their tails between their legs...

Chechnya isn't looking very good either...

If anyone ever says we should have a draft-based military, look at Russia and reconsider...



Don't bet on them being run out of Afghanistan without our assistance to the locals.

And, what the fuck does this thread have to do with us having a draft????????? Damn, I mean, just damn. You have lost it.



I'll have to say I agree with LARRYG completely. The Russians had them beat six ways to Sunday until we started dumping billions into supporting the Mujahideen. Stinger anti-aircraft missiles made a huge difference.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:15:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



We did let them do whatever they wanted in Chechnya, and still are...

Even without our interferance, they would have been run out of A-stan with their tails between their legs...

Chechnya isn't looking very good either...

If anyone ever says we should have a draft-based military, look at Russia and reconsider...



Don't bet on them being run out of Afghanistan without our assistance to the locals.

And, what the fuck does this thread have to do with us having a draft????????? Damn, I mean, just damn. You have lost it.



The draft comment points to the striking difference between our two countries.

The Russian military is an almost entirely conscripted force.

We are not.

It was directly related to my comments on Chechnya and Afganhistan, as my point is that those 2 campaigns don't NEED to be lost, but the Russians will scrww them up. Period. One of the major reasons for this is that they do not have the professional all-volunteer force that we do.

As for A-stan, it would have taken longer, but they would have been beaten in the end...

Everyone who has tried to win a counter-insurgency campaign with massed fire has LOST. Period.

We are the first country to actually successfully operate there in centuries... Everyone else, from the Russians to the Brits, and so on, has been sent packing by locals with inferior technology...

History was against our success too, but the US has a way of defying history....
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:20:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 9:24:02 PM EST by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Show of hands...

Who now wishes we had let Russia do whatever they wanted in Afghanistan and Chechnya?



We did let them do whatever they wanted in Chechnya, and still are...

Even without our interferance, they would have been run out of A-stan with their tails between their legs...

Chechnya isn't looking very good either...

If anyone ever says we should have a draft-based military, look at Russia and reconsider...



Don't bet on them being run out of Afghanistan without our assistance to the locals.

And, what the fuck does this thread have to do with us having a draft????????? Damn, I mean, just damn. You have lost it.



The draft comment points to the striking difference between our two countries.

The Russian military is an almost entirely conscripted force.

We are not.

It was directly related to my comments on Chechnya and Afganhistan, as my point is that those 2 campaigns don't NEED to be lost, but the Russians will scrww them up. Period. One of the major reasons for this is that they do not have the professional all-volunteer force that we do.

As for A-stan, it would have taken longer, but they would have been beaten in the end...

Everyone who has tried to win a counter-insurgency campaign with massed fire has LOST. Period.

We are the first country to actually successfully operate there in centuries... Everyone else, from the Russians to the Brits, and so on, has been sent packing by locals with inferior technology...

History was against our success too, but the US has a way of defying history....



Truth is that the Russians had the war damn near won until we spent billions to support the Mujahideen. The Russians were winning it with Airmobile/Spetsnaz (Special Forces) tactics. Our stingers and billions of dollars in support turned the tide. I think you need to reread the history of the Russian/Afghan war. We won so easily becuase the Taliban DID NOT HAVE billions of dollars in outside support and we spent millions buying off individual warlords - thats a tactic the Russians never thought of.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:25:47 PM EST


so that means that russia is the cause of all of those terrorists who are armed with russian

made/designed/sold/distributed aks, anti-air missles, explosives, electronics, etc that end up killing Americans and russians, and others..........right?!@??
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:33:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 9:34:32 PM EST by urbankaos04]

Truth is that the Russians had the war damn near won until we spent billions to support the Mujahideen. The Russians were winning it with Airmobile/Spetsnaz (Special Forces) tactics. Our stingers and billions of dollars in support turned the tide. I think you need to reread the history of the Russian/Afghan war. We won so easily becuase the Taliban DID NOT HAVE billions of dollars in outside support and we spent millions buying off individual warlords - thats a tactic the Russians never thought of.


+1
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 9:49:54 PM EST
Aside from the brits and aussies as our standard allies, the russians have more in common with us in this war. We're both fighting muslim insurgents. We're both trying to locate said criminal mastermind. And now we've both had very deadly attacks on our home soil.

Except we tend to build our own worse enemies, like Saddam and OBL.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:09:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:14:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 10:18:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:



I'll have to say I agree with LARRYG completely. The Russians had them beat six ways to Sunday until we started dumping billions into supporting the Mujahideen. Stinger anti-aircraft missiles made a huge difference.



100% correct… the Russians learnt to attack from the 'top down' using Helo Assaults covered by Mi-24 gunships… (sounds like a familiar tactic)… when the CIA started shipping Stingers into the country (and Spec Ops people to train the Muj to use them), the Russians lost airmobility and air supremacy… THEN they lost.

ANdy
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