Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/25/2005 12:35:52 PM EDT
Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.

Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.

Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves

users.otenet.gr/~alvemm/images/su-37d.jpg



You cannot kill what you cannot see with radar. This is a showpiece plane simply for the fact it will never get close to an F22. Interested to see what it would do Vs. Eurofighter or Viggen though
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:52:28 PM EDT
Stunt planes. Cool for plowing grass at the Paris Air Show, but not even a close match in real combat. You have to cut the nuts off the F-15C just to give the SU-37 a fighting chance, and the F-15 is over 30 years old.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:55:11 PM EDT
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:58:00 PM EDT
when 10 f-15 pilots get there ass kicked by a single 22 so bad that they say it is unfair, and your saying they aren't worried
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:01:17 PM EDT
6 pages
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:02:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 1:06:43 PM EDT by Mattl]

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.


Even more interesting the SU-47

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:18:25 PM EDT
So how many of them do the Chinese have? And how competent are their pilots? If the Indians have respectable pilots ..............



-K
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:19:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
So how many of them do the Chinese have? And how competent are their pilots? If the Indians have respectable pilots ..............



-K



Check Janes. IM Vito113 he is good with this stuff.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:45:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Special-K:
So how many of them do the Chinese have? And how competent are their pilots? If the Indians have respectable pilots ..............



-K



Remember Wang Wei??? lol
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:51:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 1:52:41 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.
www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg

Even more interesting the SU-47
es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg
www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg



SU47?"??

There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC

Russians sure copy well (When the copy the *right* plane... When they don't, you get the SU-25 (which was the 'YA-9', contract competitor to the A-10))....



P.S. It's not the russian PLANES to worry about, it's their !#%!#%!% MISSILES....
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 1:54:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.
www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg

Even more interesting the SU-47
es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg
www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg



The US F-15C pilots were handcuffed by the rules of that Indian exercise. Also this exercise JUST happened to coincide right about the time the F-22 program was before Congress on whether there should be more cuts or cancellation. In the press releases, the USAF went on how our pilots are now overmatched but FAILED to mention the rules of the exercise heavily favored the Indians.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:00:23 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:03:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.
www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg

Even more interesting the SU-47
es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg
www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg



SU47?"??

There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC

Russians sure copy well (When the copy the *right* plane... When they don't, you get the SU-25 (which was the 'YA-9', contract competitor to the A-10))....



P.S. It's not the russian PLANES to worry about, it's their !#%!#%!% MISSILES....



X-29

Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 2:13:08 PM EDT by talbalos]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC.


The X-29, built in the 1980's on the airframe of an old F-5 Freedom Fighter using then new composite and microprocessor technology.

Composites gave the forward swept wings strength. On board computation capability allowed for fine control of an otherwise unstable aerodynamic design.

The plane performed beyond expectations on it's first test flight and IIRC the chief test pilot for the project, Chuck Sewell, got himself taken off the project when he went beyond the flight profile and rocked the wings in victory.

ETA: Who remembers the Northrop F-20 Tigershark?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:19:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:21:20 PM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.

Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves

users.otenet.gr/~alvemm/images/su-37d.jpg



You cannot kill what you cannot see with radar. This is a showpiece plane simply for the fact it will never get close to an F22. Interested to see what it would do Vs. Eurofighter or Viggen though



All the stealth in the world on the Raptor doesnt stop IRSTS systems. I dont know the effective range of these systems, but if its very far then stealth becomes a nifty catch phrase.

As for not hitting what you cant see....Welcome in the Gardenia pod. I dont know the extent of the pod, and obviously the Chinese arent telling us. But a Chinese flanker with IRSTS and Gardenia pod equipped could be a very dangerous adversary for a Raptor to engage.

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the Raptor. But the Chinese cant be ruled out as a threat ust because we have Raptors. Especially since we dont know (Or "we" (The people) havent been told) the capabilities of the Chinese equipment. The Gardenia pod is sold to them is probably not Russias most advanced electronics suite, but that doesnt mean its ineffective and more to the point it doesnt mean China has modified it for its own uses and requirements.
If China has modified or improved the Gardenia pod, pair that with IRSTS as well as targetting information uplinked from other systems to the Flanker it gives the Flanker a definate helping hand in engaging American assets.

But, until we know the full capabilities of Chinas equipment its all speculation.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:25:57 PM EDT
Let's not be so cocksure and bada** about ourselves. Remember when two Eagles jumped a RAF trainer and the trainer trounced them.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:27:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Let's not be so cocksure and bada** about ourselves. Remember when two Eagles jumped a RAF trainer and the trainer trounced them.



Haha! i never heard that story!

Soooo....Tell me a story......
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:30:04 PM EDT
Those russkie planes sure look a lot like our old designs...........
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:30:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.
www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg

Even more interesting the SU-47
es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg
www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg



You are very badly misinformed, they can track and shoot us down. They cant track stealth by radar but they can with IR. The little bubble thing on the nose of the SU in front of the cockpit is the IRST. They can track objects as far as 90 miles away and guide missiles to intercept. Euro allies have been tracking our stealth aircraft for a long time even thought its not widely known. Vito will atest to this fact.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:32:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By stickfigure:
It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.



In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots. So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37. Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.
www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg

Even more interesting the SU-47
es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg
www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg



You are very badly misinformed, they can track and shoot us down. They cant track stealth by radar but they can with IR. The little bubble thing on the nose of the SU in front of the cockpit is the IRST. They can track objects as far as 90 miles away and guide missiles to intercept. Euro allies have been tracking our stealth aircraft for a long time even thought its not widely known. Vito will atest to this fact.



Beat you to it.
See my post above about the IRSTS.
What i didnt know was the range. Does the 90 miles include the use of an optical zoom or is that the base unit?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:32:09 PM EDT
The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles. Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:39:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles. Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.



Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success?
Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards?
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:42:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles. Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.



Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success?
Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards?



There is actually a nice article on this somewhere. I cant find the link. But they were discussing Chinese abilities. It was very interesting but extremely full of speculation. We will never really know until we start shooting or we get our hands on one.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:44:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles. Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.



Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success?
Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards?



There is actually a nice article on this somewhere. I cant find the link. But they were discussing Chinese abilities. It was very interesting but extremely full of speculation. We will never really know until we start shooting or we get our hands on one.



Well, I think its safe to say theres a good deal of marketing involved with the Raptor, and a little bit too much trust placed in that marketing.
I just hope that marketing doesnt end up getting our boys killed.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:49:30 PM EDT
In our recent history, thats the MO of the USA in the big wars. We initially are unprepared and get out butts spanked in the initial battles. Then we wake up the giant and kick some butt. Due to politics we are never truly prepared until sometime after the bullets start flying but then many of our boys will be gone.
Top Top