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Posted: 6/15/2009 5:29:49 AM EST
June 12, 2009 - 4:43 PM

LANSING, Mich. (AP) - Some Michigan counties have turned a few once-paved rural roads back to gravel to save money.

More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.

Montcalm County converted nearly 10 miles of primary road to gravel this spring.

The county estimates it takes about $10,000 to grind up a mile of pavement and put down gravel. It takes more than $100,000 to repave a mile of road.

Reverting to gravel has happened in a few other states but it is most typical in Michigan. At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.
http://www.wwmt.com/articles/roads-1363526-mich-counties.html

Now thats cutting back, now it is not the best type of cutting back I would like to see but it is better then raising taxes.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:35:03 AM EST
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:37:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 1:26:10 PM EST by Burban89]
The roads in town here are so bad they would be better if they just turned them into gravel.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:39:12 AM EST
Might as well.Way things are going there wont be many people driving on them anyway.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:42:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?



Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:42:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 5:44:17 AM EST by --bullseye--]
All the county roads here in WI are paved, but there's still township roads around here that are gravel.

If you want to see lots of gravel roads, go to Iowa or western Minnesota...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:43:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

That's dirt. Gravel doesn't do that...the worst you're going to get with gravel roads is a dusty car and maybe a little chipped paint behind your wheel wells.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:44:36 AM EST
Most of the roads in the state are dirt...
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:44:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.



That's not a gravel road.

I like them in the winter especially, less of a problem with ice.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:44:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.


Photo is from siberia and I rather they do gravel roads to save money then trying to steal more from me in taxes.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:45:35 AM EST
I'd rather have a well-maintained gravel road than a paved road full of potholes and frost heaves.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:49:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbles:
I'd rather have a well-maintained gravel road than a paved road full of potholes and frost heaves.






+1 shitload.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:49:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 5:50:59 AM EST by JonasWright]
Originally Posted By ––bullseye––:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

That's dirt. Gravel doesn't do that...the worst you're going to get with gravel roads is a dusty car and maybe a little chipped paint behind your wheel wells.


What do you think is under that gravel?
The problem with gravel is that it has to be replaced often. In area with high rain and double especially with snow you can rut the shit out of a road with a quickness.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:50:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:55:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By ––bullseye––:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

That's dirt. Gravel doesn't do that...the worst you're going to get with gravel roads is a dusty car and maybe a little chipped paint behind your wheel wells.


What do you think is under that gravel?
The problem with gravel is that it has to be replaced often. In area with high rain and double especially with snow you can rut the shit out of a road with a quickness.

Have you ever seen a gravel road before? Seriously?
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:56:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.


Look, someone who has never driven on a country road!

Good gravel roads can handle a LOT of rain.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:56:49 AM EST


i miss the dirt roads i used to live on




Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:57:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rattle_Snake:
Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.


Photo is from siberia and I rather they do gravel roads to save money then trying to steal more from me in taxes.

A pic he had laying around from the motherland.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:57:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.


Look, someone who has never driven on a country road!

Good gravel roads can handle a LOT of rain.


THIS
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:57:32 AM EST
I've been on several well maintained gravel roads here in Georgia that still turn to gumbo after a long steady rain.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:57:42 AM EST
Cut welfare completely and pave the fucking roads and I'll be impressed.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 5:59:17 AM EST
Gravel roads are what we have in my neck of the woods here in NH.

I would welcome the bananas, though.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:05:26 AM EST
Guy across the street from me is a Supervisor for the Road Commission.

He says there is ZERO additional jobs being added in the state due to the road and bridge infrastructure stimulus as put forth by The One. Instead, they are cutting seasonal hires and not filling any vacancies created by attrition, namely a significant number of retirees.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:05:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 6:05:43 AM EST by SevenMaryThree]
shit

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:09:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

With the exception of parts of the panhandle, FL is all sand. Water percolates quickly through sand.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:13:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
Guy across the street from me is a Supervisor for the Road Commission.

He says there is ZERO additional jobs being added in the state due to the road and bridge infrastructure stimulus as put forth by The One. Instead, they are cutting seasonal hires and not filling any vacancies created by attrition, namely a significant number of retirees.



From what I can tell about the way Michigan does their roads, the people doing them don't know shit. Maybe that my own ignorance but they do the same damn roads every friggin year. Im so sick of road work.

Then I go to other states and its like im riding on glass.

What gives? I know Michigan allows a heavier load as far as trucking goes but com on now. It is seriously ridiculous the way Michigan does the roads here.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:17:17 AM EST
My grandma lives in Flint, and they had a dirt road forever. I think they finally paved it a few years back. Just in time!
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:22:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/15/2009 6:23:56 AM EST by Ajek]
Originally Posted By MP15XBOB:
Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
Guy across the street from me is a Supervisor for the Road Commission.

He says there is ZERO additional jobs being added in the state due to the road and bridge infrastructure stimulus as put forth by The One. Instead, they are cutting seasonal hires and not filling any vacancies created by attrition, namely a significant number of retirees.



From what I can tell about the way Michigan does their roads, the people doing them don't know shit. Maybe that my own ignorance but they do the same damn roads every friggin year. Im so sick of road work.

Then I go to other states and its like im riding on glass.

What gives? I know Michigan allows a heavier load as far as trucking goes but com on now. It is seriously ridiculous the way Michigan does the roads here.


Seems that way to me too.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:26:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.


gravel does not equal mud
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:29:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

As long as the welfare recipients and UAW keep getting their cut, it's ok.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:31:46 AM EST
Upkeep on a gravel road a road grader once a month or less and occasionally a load of gravel. Thats alot cheaper and faster than blacktop or concrete, which equals savings.

Kansas has the best gravel roads I have ever seen, btw.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:33:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By defconfive:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

With the exception of parts of the panhandle, FL is all sand. Water percolates quickly through sand.




IME even in the panhandle you generally have a hard bottom bellow a thin layer of mud.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:37:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By MP15XBOB:
Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
Guy across the street from me is a Supervisor for the Road Commission.

He says there is ZERO additional jobs being added in the state due to the road and bridge infrastructure stimulus as put forth by The One. Instead, they are cutting seasonal hires and not filling any vacancies created by attrition, namely a significant number of retirees.



From what I can tell about the way Michigan does their roads, the people doing them don't know shit. Maybe that my own ignorance but they do the same damn roads every friggin year. Im so sick of road work.

Then I go to other states and its like im riding on glass.

What gives? I know Michigan allows a heavier load as far as trucking goes but com on now. It is seriously ridiculous the way Michigan does the roads here.


Roads go to shit fast in the upper Midwest. It's just a fact of life. The salt spalls the concrete, and to a lesser degree it'll even break down the limestone. The plowing, and the frost heave just destroys roads fast.

You can dig deeper roadbeds, and put down thicker slabs of concrete, and use tougher mixes of concrete with tougher aggregate, but it'll cost you, a lot. And even asphalt went crazy the past two years as oil went up in price.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:38:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By ––bullseye––:
All the county roads here in WI are paved, but there's still township roads around here that are gravel.

If you want to see lots of gravel roads, go to Iowa or western Minnesota...


I prefer those roads to the ones here in IL
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:43:47 AM EST
That's the reality of local government these days. The tax money you shell out is all going to the Federal Government and the states. Local government, whose responsibilities have increased, is stuck with the table crumbs.


Gravel roads make a lot of sense. I always said when they started these ambitious paving projects in rural counties that it's not good stewardship of the tax payers dollars.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:44:49 AM EST
I have been thinking about doing this with my girlfriends very deteriorated driveway.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:46:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By ––bullseye––:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

That's dirt. Gravel doesn't do that...the worst you're going to get with gravel roads is a dusty car and maybe a little chipped paint behind your wheel wells.


What do you think is under that gravel?
The problem with gravel is that it has to be replaced often. In area with high rain and double especially with snow you can rut the shit out of a road with a quickness.

Have you ever seen a gravel road before? Seriously?


Ya no shit..

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:47:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:51:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:


i miss the dirt roads i used to live on






I see peak dirt/gravel roads soon..Your house will be worth 50% more with a gravelroad.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:51:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By ––bullseye––:

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

That's dirt. Gravel doesn't do that...the worst you're going to get with gravel roads is a dusty car and maybe a little chipped paint behind your wheel wells.


What do you think is under that gravel?
The problem with gravel is that it has to be replaced often. In area with high rain and double especially with snow you can rut the shit out of a road with a quickness.

Have you ever seen a gravel road before? Seriously?


I grew up down one in north Louisiana. During bad rain storms the only reason we could get to the house was because my mom's beater Outback did better than most of the redneck's trucks.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:55:26 AM EST
And people always have wondered how the Romans built such great roads and aqueducts, then nothing but deterioration and relics of a great past.

Oh, and people also wonder how a republic can be seen as 'Degenerate' and faltering and gladly hand over the reigns to end corruption and bring back good roads with a "strong man" leader in charge.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 6:58:01 AM EST
They have been doing that around here for the last few years. Yes I like pavement better, but when there is a pothole on the pavement here the road crew just comes in and slaps a patch on it. So after a few years there are more patches than road and you have what I call a pancake road. Its just like a bunch of asphault pancakes all stacked together. They also skimp when paving the rural roads around here, and they are like 10' wide. When they go back and gravel them they always widen them for drainage and grade them quite often. If it saves us money then I'm ok with them doing that.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:09:03 AM EST
The humble little poor county I'm in has had this practice since the last recession. The county has also started to abandon roads all together.

There was even a case were a culvert was not replaced after it failed. It was at the begining of a dead end road that lead to some river front property. The county couldn't afford to replace it as they couldn't even come up with the 20% matching funds.

The residents of the 17 homes had to park as much as a mile from home and walk across a foot bridge to get to the other side of a rather deep ravine.

It was a total clusterfuck trying to get those folks an access to their property. A shinning example of broken government. Plenty of finger pointing & blame storming but no one in .gov willing to do the right thing.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:16:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
The humble little poor county I'm in has had this practice since the last recession. The county has also started to abandon roads all together.

There was even a case were a culvert was not replaced after it failed. It was at the begining of a dead end road that lead to some river front property. The county couldn't afford to replace it as they couldn't even come up with the 20% matching funds.

The residents of the 17 homes had to park as much as a mile from home and walk across a foot bridge to get to the other side of a rather deep ravine.

It was a total clusterfuck trying to get those folks an access to their property. A shinning example of broken government. Plenty of finger pointing & blame storming but no one in .gov willing to do the right thing.


Looks like a good example where the homeowners should just suck it up and replace the culvert themselves.

Another reason for the increase in gravel roads. New oil refining techniques have made less asphalt, and it is therefore more expensive.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:18:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Fender57:
And people always have wondered how the Romans built such great roads and aqueducts, then nothing but deterioration and relics of a great past.

Oh, and people also wonder how a republic can be seen as 'Degenerate' and faltering and gladly hand over the reigns to end corruption and bring back good roads with a "strong man" leader in charge.


Mortar and cobblestone or brick is infinitely superior to asphalt. There's one that goes through the center of town here and they have to patch a small hole maybe every 2-3 years. The asphalt roads, on the other hand, get beaten to shit.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:21:37 AM EST
The majority of the roads in VT are unpaved.

They are rarely impassably and the only real problems are the frost heaves in the spring.

I see no reason why local roads need to be paved.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 7:23:25 AM EST
Redford, Southfield, and Farmington Hills...they still have sub's with dirt roads.

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:42:08 PM EST
Gravel roads are not that bad. Everything outside city limits was gravel when I was growing up. Grandmothers house is still on a gravel road.
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:45:20 PM EST
thats fucking lame.. i bet theyll do that around here soon..

the assfucks around here contracted to a NJ outfit to grind out all the road paint and repaint new stuff ...

the kick in the ass.. about 15 spots they did around my area.. was all new pavement last year so the fucking paint was LESS THEN A YEAR OLD.. and they ground it all down and did a shit asshat fucking job respraying it..
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:47:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Works for me - wish they'd do that here.


And when the summer rains come?

http://www.ssqq.com/ARCHIVE/images/siberia%2021%20337.jpg

Wow. Degenerating infrastructure, almost zilch capital investment, banana republic here we come.

It's Michigan...

The state is losing population at an absurd rate....

They simply do not have enough people in those areas to justify re-paving the roads...

Link Posted: 6/15/2009 12:52:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By SouthHoof:
The humble little poor county I'm in has had this practice since the last recession. The county has also started to abandon roads all together.

There was even a case were a culvert was not replaced after it failed. It was at the begining of a dead end road that lead to some river front property. The county couldn't afford to replace it as they couldn't even come up with the 20% matching funds.

The residents of the 17 homes had to park as much as a mile from home and walk across a foot bridge to get to the other side of a rather deep ravine.

It was a total clusterfuck trying to get those folks an access to their property. A shinning example of broken government. Plenty of finger pointing & blame storming but no one in .gov willing to do the right thing.




Lake County?
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