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Posted: 6/5/2001 4:22:13 PM EST
http://www.msnbc.com/news/583131.asp?0cm=c20 SAN FRANCISCO — A federal appeals court ruled Tuesday that an FBI sharpshooter can be tried for manslaughter in the slaying of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife during the 1992 Ruby Ridge standoff in Idaho. In a case testing whether federal agents are immune to state prosecution, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals cleared the way for Idaho prosecutors to charge agent Lon T. Horiuchi in the death of Vicki Weaver, 42. The federal government declined to prosecute the agent. "When federal officers violate the Constitution, either through malice or excessive zeal, they can be held accountable for violating the state's criminal laws," Judge Alex Kozinski wrote in the ruling. The court agreed with Boundary County, Idaho, attorney Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general who argued in December that immunity cannot be granted until there's a trial to determine whether Horiuchi acted unlawfully. "When federal law enforcement agents carry out their responsibilities, they can cause destruction of property, loss of freedom, and as in this case, loss of life -- all which might violate the state's criminal laws," Kozinski said. There was no immediate comment from Clark. The standoff in northern Idaho prompted a nationwide debate on the use of force by federal agencies. Ruby Ridge, where the Weaver family lived, has become synonymous with high-profile clashes, including the Branch Davidian siege near Waco, Texas, the Freemen standoff and the Oklahoma City bombing. The standoff began after federal agents tried to arrest Randy Weaver for failing to appear in court to face charges of selling two illegal sawed-off shotguns. The cabin had been under surveillance for several months when the violence began with the deaths of Deputy U.S. Marshal William Degan, Weaver's 14-year-old son, Samuel, and the Weaver family dog, Striker. During the standoff, Horiuchi shot and killed Weaver's wife and wounded family friend Kevin Harris. Witnesses said the sharpshooter fired as Vicki Weaver held open the cabin door, her 10-month-old baby in her arms, to let her husband, their daughter and Harris inside. Horiuchi has said he didn't see Vicki Weaver when he fired at Harris, who was armed and was ducking inside the cabin. He also said he fired to protect a government helicopter overhead. A wounded Harris later surrendered, as did Weaver. Both men were acquitted of murder, conspiracy and other federal charges. Weaver was convicted of failing to appear for trial on the firearms charge. The Justice Department last summer settled the last civil lawsuit stemming from the standoff. The government admitted no wrongdoing, but paid Harris $380,000 to drop his $10 million civil damage suit. In 1995, the government paid Weaver and his three surviving children $3.1 million for the killings of Weaver's wife and son.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:28:09 PM EST
It's about time. I've read that that very same sniper was deployed at Waco. Sounds like he has a real hard on for shooting women and children.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:30:50 PM EST
If convicted and sentenced to the chair, I humbly volunteer to offer my services to throw the switch on the b*stard. I don't care too much for people who kill innocent children & women, no mater what their method is nor who they are, or work for.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:34:43 PM EST
After he's convicted, they really should go after his superiors who gave the order. Negligent Homicide at best, or worst depending on how you look at it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:45:44 PM EST
He won't be conviced. They'll find some loop hole.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 4:51:20 PM EST
If I'm not mistaken, soon-to-be former FBI Director Louis Freeh promoted Larry Potts, the Special Agent in Charge of the Ruby Ridge fiasco, to Deputy Director of the FBI, AFTER the facts were known about the 'shoot to kill' order! From Q-man:
I've read that that very same sniper was deployed at Waco. Sounds like he has a real hard on for shooting women and children.
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Yes, Mr. Horiuchi was present at the 'house across the road' from the Davidian CHURCH during the final day (April 19,'93) of the siege. Spent shell casings were present in the house after the siege ended. Were the casings from shots fired on April 19? No, they were from the ATF shootout on Feb.28! Yeah, right! Some discipline, [i]nicht wahr?[/i] Eric The(KennedysHave[u]Compounds[/u]!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 5:14:33 PM EST
I hope they convict him. Then maybe some of the other he men FBI(f**ckin Bonehead Idiots) will not be so gungho to get some trigger time. For a long time the feds have felt they could do anything to anybody without reprocussion?. Perhaps this will make them realize they are not above the law and have to answer to it like us peasants do. I feel that some not all of these swat teams are getting pretty arrogant. They have access to about all the money they want. I am not anti LEO by any means but think there are sometimes better ways(like patience) then busting doors with MP5's and M16's hoping you can waste someone. Anyway I have probably said more than I should already as I might have masked men at my door at 4:00AM now.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 5:28:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 5:58:41 PM EST
It'll be just like the FLIR tests that the Danforth probe did. They will do it so they can tweak the results and get the outcome that they want. This will then further discredit the evil "anti-government militia/patriot" types. These "probes" that the government does on itself will never amount to anything because they don't address the right questions. They can smugly state that "the FBI never fired a shot at Waco", and perhaps even be telling the truth. BUT, they never comment on WHO DID! After all these years, I doubt that justice will ever be done unless it comes from the muzzle of a patriot's rifle.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 8:13:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2001 8:11:54 PM EST by libertyof76]
Its good to hear. I hope he fries but I'm not gonna hold my breath.
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 9:04:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Hey Realist, Thanks for this small bit of encouragement. I guess we all better be "realists" and accept this POS is not going to be held accountable by legal means. GRRRRRR!
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Your Welcome Bee Keeper... I guess I should be feeling good that it only took 9 plus years to get to this...[frag]
Link Posted: 6/5/2001 11:59:14 PM EST
I vote for eXecution by "firing squad" a la 50bmg!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 2:53:10 AM EST
Lets see... a trained FBI sniper supposedly aimed at Harris but hit Weaver? I don't think so. I agree they should also go after his superiors but doubt they ever will.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:19:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By SSgt D: It'll be just like the FLIR tests that the Danforth probe did. They will do it so they can tweak the results and get the outcome that they want. This will then further discredit the evil "anti-government militia/patriot" types. These "probes" that the government does on itself will never amount to anything because they don't address the right questions. They can smugly state that "the FBI never fired a shot at Waco", and perhaps even be telling the truth. BUT, they never comment on WHO DID! After all these years, I doubt that justice will ever be done unless it comes from the muzzle of a patriot's rifle.
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Well some might say that a little justice was done in Oklahoma a while back.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:24:51 AM EST
The "trigger" man will be a "fall guy" for the bunch, that is, if he gets anything...(most likely, suspension-with pay)....media report the other day (in reference to idaho incident)..."not far from ruby ridge, where federal agents killed WHITE SUPREMISTS in 92"......where the hell did THAT come from?...wish we could have some influence on some of the "conclusions" the morons report as FACT!!!!!....(local abc affiliate).....[grenade]
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 4:50:07 PM EST
How do they know for sure that he was the actual shooter?......
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 5:28:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2001 5:30:03 PM EST by T-Man]
I understand that Lon Horiuchi is Japanese. They were Hell on our WWII pow! Why didn't Tim McVeigh go after him?
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 5:46:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By doorgunner84: He won't be conviced. They'll find some loop hole.
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The Idaho Atty General has a major hard-on for this slime ball. Don't be surprised if they do convict him. Idaho has spent years fighting to be able to prosecute, and won. That was no easy chore. They want his ass, BAD!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:28:51 PM EST
Horiuchi is a graduate of the US Military Academy. Does West Point teach prospective officers to shoot citizens on their front porches? He is (IMHO) no better that McV, the fool that blew up the Murrah(sp) bldg in OKC. I don't care if he is the "fall guy". His conviction will send a long overdue message to the JBTs that they may not have the free pass to murder citizens that they thought they had. Go after his superiors also!
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 6:46:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:45:15 PM EST
Hey T-Man, why don't you get it right... yes Mr. Horiuchi is of Japanese ethnicity... but he is also an American. Is there something wrong with Lon being the same ethnic background as our FORMER enemies in WWII? Please elaborate on your statement, I'd like to hear it.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 7:58:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:07:32 PM EST
It's about time that he stands in front of a jury for the murder that he committed.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:13:52 PM EST
The man should have to pay society for his crime. Also his superiors should be charged and tried in a court of law.
Link Posted: 6/6/2001 8:18:03 PM EST
Yeah he deserves to go down but it pisses me off that the a$$holes above him will not be punished. The FBI sniper is the small fish. Janet Reno is the real enemy of the people. I will vomit if she runs for govenor of my state. Go JEB! [frag]
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