I live in Fairfax County, just outside DC.  A very safe place.  Some guy in a Lumina was tailing me and my brother, about two feet from our rear bumper and we were doing about 60mph.  Well my brother does not such a smart thing and hits the brakes about 4 times quickly, slowing down to like 35mph.  

I told him not to hit the brakes. Moron. Well we exit the parkway and the guy pulls up next to us of course, and its an Afican American gentleman dressed up in his ghetto garb.  He is like you motha f*** blah blah.  Well we looked away but made eye contact unfortunately, he gets out of his car, and starts making his way to the drivers door but this guy looks like he could have a gun, probably somehow got lost and took a wrong turn out of tha hood.

So we run through that redlight, no one was coming, and he is standing back at the other light waving his arms in the air like he has something to prove.  We go through the next redlight, which about 50 feet from the other, and get up to the third light which is also close by.  He pulls in behind us, gets out of his car and runs up o the drivers door but we run through THAT light (no one coming) and we finally have about a mile before the next light.  

Unfortunately, we were able to get far from him but not far enough.  He cathches up and follows us through suburbia for another 4 miles, right on our tail.  We cant stop at a redlight cause this freak will probably get out and shoot us.  We arent armed.  

If I had a gun, I might have shot him, we were very scared and the guy was very angry.  So the police station is like 10 miles from us, way too far, like 30 traffic lights in between, so we pull up in front of a WalMart, and its Saturday afternoon so the place is packed.  We just sit in our car in front of the main door, and he sits about 50 feet behind us in his car.  

He waited for 10 minutes, then  drove off.  Guess he didnt want to make a scene. Well, we waited in front of the store for 5 more minutes and it turns out he had gone and parked and was sneaking up on us on foot in a crowd of shoppers approaching the store.  When we saw that we were looking at him approaching, he bolted at us (we're in the car, doors locked).  He ran through this group of people, over a bush, and jumped the hood of a car that was waiting at the crosswalk to let a woman cross.  We are on the other side of the crosswalk.  Just as the woman gets out of the way, we accelerate quickly and get away from LL Cooljay, but of course the madman is sprinting after us, Im sure everyone standing there was scared to hell cause this is not something you expect to see in these wealthy suburbs.  

We pull down a parkling lot aisle, spotting his parked car,  a ways down, and we continue onto the main sidestreet that leads into Walmart, and we exit the shopping center with some more quick, dangerous driving.  We look back and he is already in his car, but we managed to speed into a business complex (TRW) and he didnt see us go in there.  We pulled up to the lobby and the security guy let us in. The guy never found us.

The police havent called me back yet. Anyway, I just hope this freak doesnt try to chase me down.  Just wanted to get this off my chest.  What should I do?  

arm yourself.

Two of you, one of him. Pussies. Did you leave you testicles in your other pants?

The guy was a total stranger and I had nothing to prove.  Also, what do I have to gain?  My ego is just fine, thanks.  

Fortunantly, most incidents like this end up exactly the way you described.

I would say that since your bro tapped his brake the way he did, it might not go in your favor in court if you would have shot him.

Anyways, glad to knowone got hurt.

word.

look, if CCW isn't available for you, and even if it is, get yourself a can of pepper spray, pull over, if the asswipe approaches your vehicle, warn him, then fog him.
BTW, i am an LEO, and recommend this method officially mmmmkay?

My suggestion:

Smack that brother of yours upside the head one or two or seven times, and make him repeat after you, "I will not endanger those around me and provoke a road rage incident". "I will not endanger those around me and provoke a road rage incident".

(edited to un-diss DarkHelmet... you the man!)

this is why i keep a t-ball bat on the floor of my car (with a mitt hooked on the handle for plausible deniability) here in no CCW wisconsin

You were not driving slow in the fast lane now where you?

Get a cell phone and a CCW permit.  Also figure out what the laws are for transporting a firearm and then constantly transport a firearm in your vehicle.

A word of advice: don't piss off tailgaters unless you are able to handle the situation.

Anti-gov, we have shall issue here in Oregon, come on over!

For the life of me I don't see how you non CCW state guys can take it.

this is why when i am 18 whereever i go, me and my bushy will be togeather.  people are nuts!

YOYOYOYO!

I knew if I was patient you'd stick your head up.

Now I've got you.

Word.

1. The guy was a jackass. He should not have been doing that. What he was doing was worth an asswhipping though just on principle.
2. Your brother was a jackass for endangering himself, you, and that jerk. He was especially an idiot because he did it while unarmed.
3. It isn't about what you have to prove. If you can't stand up for yourself over little things, you will never have the character to do it anywhere else or for any reason. Be a man, take out the bad guy.
4. Your attitude is the exact same one that led to the downfall of Rome by a corrupt and lassitude ridden citizenry. Grow some balls. Starting that crap was stupid. Stopping was stupid. Him getting out of the car was stupid. Your staying in the car and running like little girls was stupid and cowardly. Fighting him would have been stupid but honorable. Sometimes you have to weigh the situation and pick the least path of all the bad ways to go. Pick the one that lets you retain your self respect. But remember, if you are going to be stupid, you better be tough.

We were in the far right lane of a three lane parkway, doing 5 over the speed limit.  He was much closer than your average tailgater.

Good man, that's what I like to hear!  Glad you did not get hurt.  A cell phone is  an important piece of safety equipment, you should always have one, especially if you carry.  Get a cell phone, a CCW, and a Glock.  Then take as much training as you can find.  

I can see how you would have these viewpoints.  The problem is, I could have gotten out of the car, and he could pull a gun and shoot me, then get back in his car and drive off.  Maybe that means he is dishonorable, but now Im dead.  

Also, I just wanted to get out of a dangerous situation that I did not put myself in.

The guy was a jerk, no doubt about it!  The brake lights MAY have provoked him but it doesn't really matter.  The jerk was looking for trouble and wanting to harrass whitey.  Too bad you couldn't introduce him to Mr. Colt and provide some education for the poor MF.

Your pride will heal.  Poor pair of feet that can't carry a man to safety!  It is sometimes hard to swallow your pride and avoid the direct confrontation whether armed or naked.  None the less, being defenseless, you did the right thing.  Let it teach a valuable lesson - always have SOME form of defense.  Starting from poor - a phone - to very good - a gun.  Anything is better than nothing; decide for yourself what is enough.

Sounds good in theory.



Picking fights when armed is not a good idea.



Tell that to the jury.  "Yeah, my brother pissed him off, then I took out the bad guy because I'm a man".  They'll tell you to learn to take it like a man from Bubba.



Taking a defensive stance against an unknown force when it's not necessary is the sign of a small brain, not big balls.  He got away unharmed, hopefully having learned something, and hopefully his brother learned something important, and he didn't have to harm anyone else to do it.  Sounds like he won't win any awards for being a badass, but he also isn't dead and won't be taking it up the ass in prison.  I suspect he'll be able to live with himself.

Then push your brother out the door...........he started it.

Why didn't you just call the police?

To add my own tale of woe to this thread, my wife and I were driving on a 3 lane major street in uptown Albuquerque at around 3:00 pm in moderate traffic. One of our lovely residents cuts another driver off in his lowered 'pimp ride' and gets a finger from the cut-offee in the lane next to us. The cut-offor then pulls out at least 3.5 feet of shiny chromed revolver, slows down until he is next to us, and begins to wave this cannon around in a very beligerent manner. I screamed,"GET DOWN!!" to Mrs. Wiggy and pulled my SIG 220 while slamming on the brakes. Mr. Hand Cannon then notices that he is causing a bit of a traffic distubance due to my now stopped pickup and sees that he is extremely covered by Mr. European Engineered Fine-ness so he lowers his weapon and huriedly exits the vicinity. From tha look on his face as he noticed me and the SIG, he left with a little something smelly in his drawers.[:D]
I called 911 on my cell phone as I watched himdrive off, gave the dispatcher the story including make, model, year, weapon description, and the description of the idiot...I was told that almost shootings do not warrant a response from the Albuquerque PD! WTF, over.

i've got a good job here, but i'm looking activly searching for others in MT and ND and as soon as I find one with income approaching what i make here, i'm gone

if i can't pull off the above in three - four years, i'm taking the pay hit and moving anyway

i'm surprised they didn't charge you with brandishing

Thanks for the words, everyone else also.  I rally dont want to start some race war here, but I really do think that race played a part in what happened.  Ever notice how so much of music and other aspects of black culture is directed at violence, especially towards white people?  I get the feeling that they think they are at war with white people.  Geez, my great grandfather won a Purple Heart in the Civil War fighting for their freedom, thanks for the gratitude.  I love my country more than any other, but having recently spent a few months in Europe, I realize that maybe the only way to get away from this violent race conflict is to just leave.  I met a few black people in Britain, and it was an eye-opening experience.  They speak with a British accent, identical to a white persons accent, and they dont want to kill whitey.  They arent pissed off about being enslaved 150 years ago.

The point I'm trying to make is that black culture in this country has some serious hangups directed at white people, and its only making problems worse for them because white people ARE afraid of them.  I just took a geography course last semester and learned about the whole phenomenon of "white flight" and how it has been one of the biggest influences on American society and stuff.  White people can't be a little afraid of blacks and also be %100 trusting at the same time.  I dont know what our country is going to do to get totally over this thing.  Well not Im ranting.

I had a cell phone in my backpack in the back of the car, however, I thought that I had put the cell phone in the ashtray in the front console, and when I looked there, it wasnt there, so I assumed it was not in the car at all.  Doh.  Could have ended it rather quickly.

Chuck,

Email me,

II'm in Fiarfax too

[email protected]

Matt

Honestly, if the guy wanted to talk to you that bad, I would have talked to him. If he wanted a little more, I would have given him that too. I deal with this sort of crap way too much and I find that most people will back down if given the opportunity. Let them start it, though. I usually figure giving some little shit the thrashing he desperately needs is not worth loseing my gun rights. If you cannot avoid confrontation without putting others at risk, I would allow the guy to confront me so that it is a self-defence situation if I have to get physical with him.

I would then beat the living crap out of your brother for getting me into the situation....

True enough young man. You were prudent.

Never seek to provoke. If some one gets angry at you for making eye contact, keep making eye contact, and don't back down. They are the one acting irrational. Don't empower anyone by emanating a sense of fearfulness. It's classic pack-hierarchy; one runs, the other instinctively gives chase. Carry a sidearm and be prepared to defend yourself.

Incidents like this are a reason to be armed in case they escalate but this guy apparently had no weapon so a gun without training could have gotten you in MUCH trouble. Crap like this is what OC spray was designed for. Let him come to the door and hose him good. I doubt your actions would be questioned if you told responding police that you felt threatened and he brought the fight to you. Learn from this and be better prepared next time.

BTW, bitch slap your brother!

Sounds like the Fair Lakes Walmart. [:)]  A cell phone would have ended it quickly.  Maybe you should have just pulled up infront of walmart and layed on the horn for a few minutes.  Get one of their managers out of the store and have them call the police.

FACT is not necessarily racism.  Some black people get their kicks by intimidating whitey, or each other.  When the <14% of our population that is responsible for >60% of all crime decides to become civilized we will all get along a lot better.  I also had ansestors that served in civil war including that hell hole known as Andersonville.  I was discussing racial issues this past Sunday with a black friend whom I respect.  Was curious why black people defend the trash that preys on us all.  He couldn't explain it either.  He has no more use for Jesse Jackass or Farakhan than I do.

While we should all stand up for what is right, it isn't smart to put yourself at undue risk over nothing.  Better that some smirking gang bang idiot THINKS he got one over on you than getting hurt because you were not properly armed.  Jerks like him are not worth the paperwork that results from killing them, even in self defense.  Better to avoid confrontation when at all possible.

Read On Killing by Grossman. He goes into detail on how running away is the surest way to get killed.

Chuck,

You guys did some things right...(trying to avoid the crazy bastard) and some things REAL wrong...(like hitting your brakes in the first place.)

Listen up neighbor, you need to do a couple of things to stay safe:`

-IF you are legally able to do so, get yourself a concealed carry permit.  If you aren't already well trained in the correct and SAFE use of a firearm...attend training classes and learn your handgun well.  When you are really ready...CARRY THE DAMN THING.

-If you do decide to arm yourself, avoid trouble at all costs when you are carrying.  The LAST thing you want is a shooting.  As has already be stated here, if you had been packing and you had shot the POS, it would most likely have gone badly for you in court.  Based upon what you have told us, you didn't break the critical threshold of a righteous shooting.  In fact, Virginia law states:
"[b][i]Justifiable homicide in self-defense occurs where a person, without [red]any fault[/red]in provoking or bringing on difficulty, kills another under reasonable apprehension of death or great bodily harm to himself."

"In these several kinds of justifiable homicide, it may be observed, that the slayer is in no kind of fault whatsoever, not even in the minutest degree; and is therefore to be totally acquitted and discharged, with commendation [:D] rather than blame."[/i][/b] (Don't you just love Virginia law?)

So you see...if you were at fault in any way for the confrontation that led to the POS getting his justly deserved bullet...you are going to be in deep doo-doo and probably headed for the greybar hotel.

-Get a cope of "The Virginia Gun Owners Guide" by Korwin and Maniscalco.  It's a great source of info on the carrying of a concealed weapon here...and it very carefully explains when you can shoot and when you should NOT.

-Have your cell phone on and ready.

Driving away and remaining as passive as possible was the best tactic.  It is even more important if you are ever armed, since you now have someone's life in your hands.

Finally, of course race played a part in this...but so what.  You need to be prepared for this sort of thing.

[soapbox]

How did you know that?  I was going to jump out of the car and run in and tell them to call the police, but I decided to stay in the car.  Good thing, the guy moments later ran up to the car and my brother and I would have been split up, complicating things.  This wacko would have chased me into the store too, no doubt in my mind.  My brother called the store when we got home and asked if anyone got the guys plates- nope.

Your brothers actions are nothing short of stupidity personified!

His behavior would have gotten the two of you suburban white boys shot, stabbed or beaten to death if you were here in Dallas.

All it takes is messing with the wrong guy on the wrong day and you'll be a funny color of blue before you can say could you please pull your knife out of my a$$.

Never look for trouble. If trouble finds you, do your best to get out of it without violence.
If getting out [u]is not an option[/u], then you'ld better be prepared to take his life or he will likely take yours.

You seem young - remember this - Your tough talking friends will get you in deep S#!t and they will usually be the first ones to abandon you when things get hot. If you or your friends are the catalist of a conflict and you kill someone, the self defense plea ain't gonna work!

Oh, I'm glad you were not hurt. With that said, I think the best ending to this story would have been for this guy to pull you brother out of the car and give him a good scare and a high cheek wedgie. Not saying what the guy did was right, but I've got money that says your brother didn't learn anything from this experience.


_________________________________________
No two men are ever more equal
than when they are both armed.

You know everyone is a tough guy behind a key board, you shouldn't have provoced him in the first place.  But that being said him being an ass wipe looking for trouble just ain't worth all the hassle it could cause you.  So you get out to confront him -bang your dead, he's wrong and your still dead.  You duke it out, yep your a man then who either got the living shit kicked out of him or is having to go through court and worry about your future.  Yep am I going to be a felon, can I get a good job again/own a firearm.  The day's of John Wayne are over (for the worst) now someone can take your whole life because they hired a better lawyer than you.  Sad ain't it.  

There is no reason to be armed in this situation. The vehicle you were in was the offending party by braking early. If he rear-ends you,without your bro's help, then it will be his failure to assure clear distance.

Had you been armed I fear someone would be killed for no reason at all. If everyone shot a person that pissed em off while driving, our population would be dwindling.

Cellphone is the best advice here, call State HP and give license tag # and say they were acting erratically - and you believe the operator is under the influence of chemicals.

If anything when you punish a tailgater by "brakechecking" you pose a very real hazard to the motorists behind you.

-the stick in the mud

You obviously don't know how unlikely this is.  Sarah Brady herself told me that all the hard work she's been doing has made our society a safer one, more free from the menaces of firearms than it has ever been.

In all seriousness, though, back in my teens/early 20s, I was a bit more high strung than I am now and often tried to exact "street justice" like your brother's brake-check maneuver.  Other good ones were pulling alongside the offending party and hurling a lit cigar on their windshield as I pulled along side (made a great pyrotechnic display when it hit the windshield at 40+ mph).  But since those days, I've mellowed a little bit and realize that, yeah, tailgaters are dangerous to me and others on the road, but there's no sense in antagonizing them.  What I now do, and you should tell your brother about is just to take your foot off the gas pedal and let your car coast.  This way, you slow down gradually enough that they won't rear-end you, and they'll get super frustrated, but instead of interpreting you as a belligerant SOB (as they would with a brake-check), they just think you're a clueless idiot, so they don't find any reason to start a fight since you didn't challenge their ego.  They ALWAYS just pull into the left lane and pass you up, and then they're out of your life forever.

This will lower your own stress level, too, since you don't ever need to get in pissing contests over something so insignificant.

It also depends alot on your state's laws.

I (like Tinfoil man) am a WI resident, and in WI you are allowed to use deadly force when you (or another person who is incapable of defending themself) are 'in danger of death or great bodily harm'. In a fight, it is not permitted unless you attempt to flee, and may not be used against someone attempting to flee.

The other half is that guns must be 'unloaded and encased' (although I believe a USGI .45 holster (the WWII 'snap-over' kind) counts as a case, since it completely covers the gun) in cars according to hunting regs. So even though open carry is technically legal, car guns are not... I had an encounter (that I described in DarkHelmet's thread) with some high-school punks (fortunately, white, so there was no possibility of a 'racial issue') who tried to BOARD MY CAR, and that law (combined with the fact that my 1911 was in my trunk) dictated that I use my 305, not my 45. Had the gun been present, they probably would have ran upon seeing it. Of course, doing that would have probably resulted in them telling daddy, and my being hauled in for ADW (and my responding with a charge of attempted carjacking) so even if I'd have had it, I would have left it sit.

Almost whacked one of them in the head with my door, and they wern't able to follow (being 2 cars back in traffic, and much slower than me).  

Depending on your state's laws, your car may be your only legal method of defense. Especially if in your area (like Milwaukee) any event involving 2 different races usually ends up with the R.C. being played (MPD Chief Jones is a prime example).

[b] if CCW isn't available for you, and even if it is, get yourself a can of pepper spray, "pull over, if the asswipe approaches your vehicle, warn him, then fog him.
BTW, i am an LEO, and recommend this method officially mmmmkay?"[b]


I one upped you with my wife.  I have CCW but wife didn't want to do.  I can take the Civi pepper spray and only get a runny nose.  Went online and bought wife a can of BEAR spray.  About the size of a small fire extinguisher (legal in TX) and has a range of about 30 feet.

Why on earth would you recommend pulling over? CCW and usage of pepper spray are reserved for getting away from the fight, not waiting for it.



Check out Fox labs stuff. Definitely the worst burn you can get outside of the Habenero distillation facility. [:D]

I have had this when I ride my sportbike around town. I even had a punk try to steal it at a red light. Then I went out a bought some pepper spray. It is a little safer than pullin' the .45 at wally world. I say "why get all worked up and go to blows when 1 2 second burst puts them down." The last one told me he was not affraid of that shieet{with some rap singer like hand movements} Well, he was not a superhero and I have some keys to a old POS Camaro. That stuff works.

OMG! you are a BIG f*ing puss.
I would run you don't and make you take a shot at me.
I don't give people any crap but you guys hit your brakes 4 times,you asked for it.

You guys started the hole thing,so some Punk rides your butt big deal.
You can't just jerk somebody around and them take off if you get called out.

Anyway it sounds like you guys work in IT,something about your story just yells out COMPUTER GUY!
You guys shout just sick a battle bot on the guy or download a  virus or what ever[):)]


PS:"Im sure everyone standing there
                       was scared to hell cause this is not something you expect to see in these wealthy suburbs"

No,only you and any other car baby nerds.
This guy did good I bet you will think before you mess with somebody on the freeway again.
I would go to your house and kick the door in just to see you and your brother piss on each other.

I do have questions about your story.

What is ghetto garb, other than the way half of the teenagers dress now a days?

What makes him look like he could have a gun? Because he's black?

Very seldom are "gangstas" so brazen outside of the hood. If he had been armed, he more than likely would have flashed it and moved on. Why would you think he would have just ran up to your windows and started blasting in front of a bunch of suburbanite witnesses?

Why didn't you drive to a police station? You could just drive slow enough to time the lights, or draw the attention of a patrol officer. If it is a wealthy suburb, then I'm sure there were plenty around.

What I get out of this, is you and your brother decided to fuck with a solitary black man who may very well have been tailgating. What you didn't expect, is that he would try to confront two white guys in broad daylight.

If your story is true, which I doubt, then your brother instigated the incident.

I bet you both shit your racist pants!

If this were a real situation (as opposed to some BS troll bait), your brother should've got his ass beat for provoking and escalating an already dangerous situation (tailgating). You should've probably gotten one just on principal.

The funny part is where you try to make it sound like the whole thing was because the guy was black......when I 'rally' do think that it was largely based on the fact that a couple of stupid-ass, 15 year old white knuckleheads escalated an incident and then freaked out when it looked like they were about to get their collective asses kicked.

But now I realize this was just some troll bait thread for your real agenda...

Good lord, whatever man.

Based on the account......it sounds like you were interested in a little 'white flight' of your own.

Frankly you have no business carrying a weapon of any sort around with you.

Hopefully in several years when you reach 21 you will have wisened up quite a bit.

The one thing I hate more that cary baby,misfit,geeks that can't deal with crap they start is a cary baby black guy that trys to make anything that has to do with another black guy about them.

After 30years of commie bull shit the word racist is use the same way the word nigger is used,to piss people off and disrespect them.
Don't be a cry baby knee jerk the little wuss gave the guy's race in the story one time the rest could be about anybody,like you said lots of kids look that way today and lots of them live in the "hood" as well.