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Posted: 9/9/2013 6:09:27 PM EDT
Brought to you by the same folks who run the Appleseed shoots. One target, 25 yards, 10 shots, no rests or bipods. Post pics on their FB when you do it, and post here.

The Link

The Target (PDF)
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:32:27 PM EDT
Well this will give me something to do tomorrow after work.


The Rifleman's Challenge
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:34:38 PM EDT
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:35:41 PM EDT
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.
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Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:39:26 PM EDT
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.
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Why?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:44:37 PM EDT
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Why?
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:45:36 PM EDT
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.
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Well they're an awful lot like crutches.

just a tool in the tool box.  I own 3 or 4 bipods.

The marines still teach sling use.  
i still shoot with a sling.  

yes, i do get that it would be a 1 in 500 chance that you would take the time to use a hasty sling or better on a combat trigger pull.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:45:47 PM EDT
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Why?
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


Should NRA High Power and CMP Service Rifle also get over their "no bipod" silliness?  Should the Army Marksmanship Unit abandon their slings too?

Someone who can shoot well unsupported will do just fine when they add a sandbag/bipod.  On the contrary, someone who is used to using a sandbag/bipod all the time may struggle when unsupported.

ETA:  The marksmanship component of Appleseed is only part of the program.  Everyone gets wrapped around the details of that, but I think most on this board would agree with the broader mission to get Americans awake, off the couch, and engaged with their communities.

Full disclosure; I volunteer with RWVA.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:46:41 PM EDT
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Quoted:


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.

BTW:  10 rds at 25 yards is BS.  Try 10 rds at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:49:23 PM EDT
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Quoted:



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:51:03 PM EDT
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Quoted:


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



I shoot in the field with bipods and shooting sticks but I do see a great value it shooting with a sling and learning to acquire my NPOA has been a great benefit to my field shooting. It's a tool and you don't always need it but it is good to have when you do.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:51:15 PM EDT
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Quoted:


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


A 1903 sling used in Appleseed is definitely not useful outside of that and high power but there are plenty of modern slings that the same basics can be applied to. One positive to learning shooting without a bipod (or sandbag) is learning without a crutch that won't be available in the "real world".

Lots of times a soldier can't go prone if they want to see the target or battlefield and the same applies to a hunter. Bipods only work if the grass is short enough or the terrain allows. Using a sling properly allows one to hold the rifle more stable than without. No negative other than it slows up reloads (not a concern if you're taking the time to sling up for a more precise shot anyway).
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:51:31 PM EDT
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Quoted:


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:51:50 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.



Well then, don''t use one.  Myself, I like hitting my targets since I shoot a LOT farther than 25 yards. I have never used a bipod or shooting sticks. (talk about obsolete, buffalo hunters shooting black powder rifles used the damn things)
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:53:33 PM EDT
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Quoted:


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:54:48 PM EDT
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Quoted:


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.



Prone keeps you alive.  Not really up on this sort of stuff are you?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:58:30 PM EDT
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Quoted:


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.



I don't wear a coat.
but by all means though, limit your skillset by not learning to use a sling.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 7:59:32 PM EDT
My unit shot our annual qualification this weekend.  I had one of my troops tell me she didn't know how to get a stable kneeling position without a sandbag to kneel on.






Having good fundamentals is important, if you can't master them then some bipod bullshit won't help.




ETA: my understanding is all Army DMR rifles are issued with loop slings

 
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:00:35 PM EDT
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Prone keeps you alive.  Not really up on this sort of stuff are you?
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A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.



Prone keeps you alive.  Not really up on this sort of stuff are you?



I think he means prone with a sling.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:01:08 PM EDT
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Quoted:


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


a bipod is a crutch.
the fundamentals apply to sitting standing and prone.
are you butthurt you didn't qualify rifleman?


A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.



Have you ever tried shooting with a sling support in prone with your NPOA?
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:01:41 PM EDT
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Quoted:



Prone keeps you alive.  Not really up on this sort of stuff are you?
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Quoted:
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A sling that is tied in a knot around your arm is also a crutch.  So are those fancy coats you all wear.  And your prone position is silly too.



Prone keeps you alive.  Not really up on this sort of stuff are you?


Not all prone is stupid.  The prone where you jack your knee clear up under your chest is stupid.  

Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:01:43 PM EDT
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Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.


The sling is a tool in the toolbox.  You can use it or not.

I personally set up my kit in Afghanistan so that I could do a hasty sling.  I'm not an 11B, more of a fobbit with a few dozen convoy runs and a few outside the wire patrols under my belt, but a hasty sling works just fine with an M4/M16 and it is a helpful technique.  The Army Marksmanship Guys I coached next to at Camp Perry (much, much better shots than I am) were talking about making 800 yard shots with slung M16s (custom national match, not rack grade) when they were in Afghanistan doing a training/advise mission.

The advantage is more stability.  The downside is that it may affect weapons manipulation some.  I shoot ARs left handed and it isn't a huge problem.  I can still do reloads reasonably quickly, work the charging handle, etc -- especially in the prone or sitting.  Do I want to be slung up for CQB?  No.  But for anything at intermediate ranges it is handy.  Learning to use a sling certainly doesn't negatively impact my ability to shoot supported.  If I have a sandbag or bipod available, of course, I'll use that.  If I don't, at least I have another tool (the sling) ready to use.

With a bolt action rifle there really is no downside to the sling technique...  again, a hasty sling can be done with any two-point sling so you don't need a loop sling.  I find the hasty sling helps with recoil management too.  

But again, the real purpose of Appleseed is to get Americans engaged against the threat of ignorance, apathy, and despair, using traditional marksmanship techniques as a way to connect with a unique American heritage.  If a student shows up and really doesn't want to use a sling I certainly won't make them.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:03:33 PM EDT
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Have you ever tried shooting with a sling support in prone with your NPOA?
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Yes.  I'm not saying it doesn't work to steady you.  I just don't think it's a realistic option anymore.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:12:35 PM EDT
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Yes.  I'm not saying it doesn't work to steady you.  I just don't think it's a realistic option anymore.
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Have you ever tried shooting with a sling support in prone with your NPOA?


Yes.  I'm not saying it doesn't work to steady you.  I just don't think it's a realistic option anymore.



I use it in the field hunting I can make clean kill with it so it is a very realistic option.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 8:20:25 PM EDT
Bruce lee was at one time the greatest martial artist. why?
because he had a open mind, learned from the many different forms of martial arts, and combined what worked and abandoned what did not.
to ignore a skill set is limiting yourself. I have seen shooters who were well known high power  shooters not qualify rifleman.

if anything, it is a challenge to be able to learn, master, and implement a skillset that does not require a free float rail and bipod.
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 9:36:14 PM EDT
Learn slings, irons, bipods, all of it.  And Appleseed is excellent!
Link Posted: 9/9/2013 9:46:23 PM EDT
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Learn slings, irons, bipods, all of it.  And Appleseed is excellent!
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This, I'll never understand why so many get butthurt over the most mundane shit

Link Posted: 9/9/2013 10:13:24 PM EDT
Shooting off the bench or prone off a rest or bipod takes most of the human/skill factor out of it. Really, using a hasty and loop sling does to some extent as well.

The traditional shooting positions with no "crutches" exposes a shooters true skills/weaknesses.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 1:55:54 AM EDT
Wow, ARFCOM GD really can argue about anything.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 2:15:11 AM EDT
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Wow, ARFCOM GD really can argue about anything.
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I disagree.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 2:17:12 AM EDT
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Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.

While I see what your saying.
Your logic is akin to saying why teach my child to drive a manual transmission car when we own automatics or why learn to use a hammer when a nail gun is so much easier.

I use bipods all the time and prefer to,but I did learn to shoot without a bipod and it has come in handy sometimes. Don't discount a skill because it is not "new"... You will never know when you need to get back to fundamentals.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 2:46:53 AM EDT
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The Army Marksmanship Guys I coached next to at Camp Perry (much, much better shots than I am) were talking about making 800 yard shots with slung M16s (custom national match, not rack grade) when they were in Afghanistan doing a training/advise mission.
View Quote

Honestly sounds like he was feeding you a line of bull; 800 meter PIDd point targets are extremely rare

Against an area target I would buy, but in reality you are not gaining any real effects over standard fire.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:12:02 AM EDT
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My unit shot our annual qualification this weekend.  I had one of my troops tell me she didn't know how to get a stable kneeling position without a sandbag to kneel on.

Having good fundamentals is important, if you can't master them then some bipod bullshit won't help.

ETA: my understanding is all Army DMR rifles are issued with loop slings
 
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You mean the M14 EBR? That is issued with a bipod as well?


Never used the sling technique. Never needed to make ridiculous shots unsupported.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:18:34 AM EDT
What size target are they using and where might I find some?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:29:15 AM EDT
I like the Appleseed concept, though I didn't enjoy a few things about the event I went to.

Neat idea having people post their own results on FB.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:41:06 AM EDT
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Should NRA High Power and CMP Service Rifle also get over their "no bipod" silliness?  Should the Army Marksmanship Unit abandon their slings too?

Someone who can shoot well unsupported will do just fine when they add a sandbag/bipod.  On the contrary, someone who is used to using a sandbag/bipod all the time may struggle when unsupported.

ETA:  The marksmanship component of Appleseed is only part of the program.  Everyone gets wrapped around the details of that, but I think most on this board would agree with the broader mission to get Americans awake, off the couch, and engaged with their communities.

Full disclosure; I volunteer with RWVA.
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


Should NRA High Power and CMP Service Rifle also get over their "no bipod" silliness?  Should the Army Marksmanship Unit abandon their slings too?

Someone who can shoot well unsupported will do just fine when they add a sandbag/bipod.  On the contrary, someone who is used to using a sandbag/bipod all the time may struggle when unsupported.

ETA:  The marksmanship component of Appleseed is only part of the program.  Everyone gets wrapped around the details of that, but I think most on this board would agree with the broader mission to get Americans awake, off the couch, and engaged with their communities.

Full disclosure; I volunteer with RWVA.


this here...
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:45:40 AM EDT
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A 1903 sling used in Appleseed is definitely not useful outside of that and high power but there are plenty of modern slings that the same basics can be applied to. One positive to learning shooting without a bipod (or sandbag) is learning without a crutch that won't be available in the "real world".

Lots of times a soldier can't go prone if they want to see the target or battlefield and the same applies to a hunter. Bipods only work if the grass is short enough or the terrain allows. Using a sling properly allows one to hold the rifle more stable than without. No negative other than it slows up reloads (not a concern if you're taking the time to sling up for a more precise shot anyway).
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


A 1903 sling used in Appleseed is definitely not useful outside of that and high power but there are plenty of modern slings that the same basics can be applied to. One positive to learning shooting without a bipod (or sandbag) is learning without a crutch that won't be available in the "real world".

Lots of times a soldier can't go prone if they want to see the target or battlefield and the same applies to a hunter. Bipods only work if the grass is short enough or the terrain allows. Using a sling properly allows one to hold the rifle more stable than without. No negative other than it slows up reloads (not a concern if you're taking the time to sling up for a more precise shot anyway).



some would disagree about the 1903 sling not being useful......like the greatest sniper in American history


For Instance....
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:56:31 AM EDT

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What size target are they using and where might I find some?
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D/L from the link and print it.  http://riflemanschallenge.com/download.html
 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 3:57:47 AM EDT
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It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


Really? I have never used a bipod on a qual range. Only sandbags.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:00:58 AM EDT
Link to a downloadable target?????
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:05:08 AM EDT
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Link to a downloadable target?????
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http://www.riflemanschallenge.com/

http://www.riflemanschallenge.com/download.html


The USGI sling is great.  I'm ashamed to admit I didn't know how to use it properly prone, until my son's appleseed this summer.  It was great, he was 11 and became twice the marksman he was in 8 hours.  He's been practicing once a week every range trip, and is FAST with it and reloads as well.  Puts me to shame.  It's great to see him with solid fundamentals.  We are going one more time this fall, for the two day affair now that he is proficient.  Next summer he wants to get his rifleman patch.  With Iron Sights.  One of my .22's has a scope.  He wants to use his marlin with tech sights and do it  "for real".  I'm proud of him.

I wouldn't want to be in his crosshairs.  
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:05:47 AM EDT

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Link to a downloadable target?????
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Link to a downloadable target?????



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What size target are they using and where might I find some?






D/L from the link and print it.  http://riflemanschallenge.com/download.html
 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:05:59 AM EDT
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Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.



That "strap thing" is called a sling and is used and taught by a lot of people. to start with, every single person that shoots service rifle or high-power,.


Yep, very useful with modern rifles.  Sorry to offend the  volunteers, but it seems outdated to me.


The sling and the proper use of the sling when firing in the unsoported is still relavent today, I know the Marines use it today and used properly it is very effective especially when a bipod or other means of support isn't available.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:08:16 AM EDT
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It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.
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Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.



Why?


It's unrealistic these days and that strap thing they snap around their arm isn't something that I see as useful other than these shoots.  I understand teaching people the fundamentals of shooting and correct form, but no one outside of appleseed uses these techniques anymore.  They claim to be certifying people as military class shooters, but the military doesn't shoot like that now.  

It's time to modernize.


Anyone can shoot off a bipod, not everyone knows how to properly use a sling.

someone didnt get the rifleman patch.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:10:27 AM EDT

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this here...

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Quoted:

Appleseed needs to get over the "No Bipod" silliness.






Why?




Should NRA High Power and CMP Service Rifle also get over their "no bipod" silliness?  Should the Army Marksmanship Unit abandon their slings too?



Someone who can shoot well unsupported will do just fine when they add a sandbag/bipod.  On the contrary, someone who is used to using a sandbag/bipod all the time may struggle when unsupported.



ETA:  The marksmanship component of Appleseed is only part of the program.  Everyone gets wrapped around the details of that, but I think most on this board would agree with the broader mission to get Americans awake, off the couch, and engaged with their communities.



Full disclosure; I volunteer with RWVA.




this here...



I will take a sling over any other rest any day of the week.    But it is what I started out with..  



circa 1984 at 9yo





 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 4:11:42 AM EDT
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Honestly sounds like he was feeding you a line of bull; 800 meter PIDd point targets are extremely rare

Against an area target I would buy, but in reality you are not gaining any real effects over standard fire.
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The Army Marksmanship Guys I coached next to at Camp Perry (much, much better shots than I am) were talking about making 800 yard shots with slung M16s (custom national match, not rack grade) when they were in Afghanistan doing a training/advise mission.

Honestly sounds like he was feeding you a line of bull; 800 meter PIDd point targets are extremely rare

Against an area target I would buy, but in reality you are not gaining any real effects over standard fire.


Depends on what type of targets they were shooting, man sized moving targets I'd agree with you.  I've taken iron sites on my AR out to 800 on the green army pop ups and made successive hits.  If it was the AMU guys coaching folks then my guess is they were talking about a KD range they set up over there not combat shots.
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