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Posted: 12/23/2002 12:56:32 PM EDT
I am going to be stationed in Germany next year and was wondering if anyone has had experience with shipping firearms to germany and living off post with a rifle in the house.

Any feedback here will be greatly appreciated, as I cant live without my rifles. Thanks
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 2:01:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:03:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
I would imagine that your chain of command should be providing all this information to you, though.  I may not have it 100% correct.

View Quote

Thanks for the info Troy.
here is my limited information..

I know I can store my weapon in the unit arms room but i dont want the privates greasy fingers all over my green labels and other cherished colts.

I heard I can get a German Weapons Possession Card (Waffenbesitzkarte)that will let me store weapons off post, but i have to take some tests and join a gun club and all that fun stuff. I was just wondering what level of painfulness it all is.

I am also wondering about sending the rifles overseas. Do they ship with my household goods? do I have to have receipts for all of them? can I have the flight case locked or do they have to inspect the rifles?

I will more than likely not be there for the shipping of household goods so I am not sure what to expect.

Its funny because my only stress about assignment in europe is my rifles.

this stress doesnt occur in CONUS duty stations... God Bless America and the 2nd amendment

Anytime you feel oppressed by the AWB, just look at englands gun laws or ALOT of other countries and you will sleep a LITTLE better :)
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 3:16:07 AM EDT
The source document for Privately Owed Firearms (POF)is USAEUR Reg 190-6.

When you get your orders, they will say you are not allowed to ship a firearm.

You can not ship a firearm to Germany until after you have meet all requirements. You have to have the German Weapons Possession Card before you obtain the weapon. The catch 22 is the test to get the card is only given in German at this time. There are personnel here trying to get the test in English authorized by the German Govt but hasn't happened yet.

Your Battalion commander must also approve your possession of a POF. You will have to have another NICS check also.

My advise is to not plan on bringing a weapon to Germany until you get here and have a chance to see how much pain it is.

If you do get thru the proceedure, your rifle can be mailed by way of US Postal. Long guns can be mailed, just don't put the customs form on the outside of the package.

You might find a copy of the regulation if you look on the web for 1st Infantry Division. Then look for a link to publications.

Where are you going to be stationed? I am in Bamberg.

Link Posted: 12/27/2002 7:33:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 7:36:20 PM EDT by Bolo12B]
This page has some contact info for the US military rod and gun clubs in Germany.  I grew up there as a "brat" and did my first shooting at the Heidelberg Rod & Gun Club.  They will have the info you need.


(The address may not come up as a hot link because I'm new to this and still suck at it!)

Link Posted: 12/27/2002 10:26:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 10:27:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 8:41:30 AM EDT
thanks guys for the help. I dont think it is worth the aggrevation to go through all that crap. Especially seeing my MOS requires alot of long FTX's. I wont even have time to go through all that crap.

I have another question that I hope someone can help me with, I will also post this question as a new topic.

I assume that only the AR-15 LOWER is considered the firearm in Germany (as it is here) so I will probably just bring the uppers with me, which leads to the question...

Does anyone know of a gun storage service that I could use to store about 3 AR-15 Lowers? (and no.. I wont store them at YOUR house so dont ask)

I am looking for something safe and insured.

I would sell the Rifles and get new ones when I get out of Germany but I cant part with them and 2 are green labels so I dont want to take a chance that a stiffer bill is introduced in 2004 that further screws us over and then I cant get another one, or the price triples.

Thanks for your help guys. Steve  
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 9:31:59 AM EDT
I just recently left Germany. Chances are you will spend enough field time in Grafenwoehr, Hofenfels, and possibly deployed for it to be too much hassle bringing them over. Depends largely on which unit you go to - but in three years there I must have spent at least half of my time deployed or in the field.

 How did I survive with my AR-15's, FAL's, etc stateside? I frequented German gun clubs a LOT. I was an Armorer for three years and still considered it too much hassle bringing my guns over - as much as I like to shoot. On the other hand, I fired a lot of Mausers, HK rifles and pistols, Lugers, S&W revolvers, etc. and drank a lot of free beer courtesy of my German friends.

Little favors like ordering Dillon Precision/Midsouth products can go a long ways over there. Nothing insane - but little favors like say an aftermarket sight/scope from the US will go a long ways. I don't mean anything restricted - but all US gun related stuff has a tremendous mark-up over there. Just as German/European products are more expensive then they should be here. Don't do anything for profit or buy anything restricted/illegal like I said - but squaring away Germans from time to time will pay off. They, in turn will square you away and you should have lots of fun shooting German guns.

Given all the BS one has to deal with to be stationed overseas with personally owned weapons - I'd just avoid it altogether. Keep your firearms in the States where you know they'll be safe and well protected.

To contact German gun owners, I'd suggest http://waffen-online.de - Pretty sure thats the right website. ( Its a large German gun owners website - become friends with them and you may get to go to some badass barbequeces and shooting events).
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 4:38:15 AM EDT
I just read an article in the Stars and Stripes that says the Germans will not allow US servicemen to keep their weapons in the unit arms rooms. If the weapon is not registered by the end of January? (I could have the date wrong), it must be shipped out of country, be sold to a registered firearms holder or destroyed.

GEN Meigs tried to help us but the Germans caught on.

I think it's a frickin' 3rd Reich Nazi conspiracy. This law did not happen because of terrorism or gun crimes, just liberal German legislators.

Only 18 months left and counting the days to my return to the real world (USA).
Link Posted: 1/2/2003 5:00:13 AM EDT
I agree with the German legislators being socialist POS. I think it was last year when there was an infamous school shooting in Bavaria. They TRIED to pass a law allowing confiscation of all pump action shotguns - all legal owned and registered already. America is better - but we're no far behind on the socialist timeline.
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 9:54:45 PM EDT
I am a GI stationed here and brought 2 pre-ban ARs here. When I came here in 98, it was no problem to bring them over in your HHG or with you on the plane. There was a seperate US Mil gun registration scheme in place. Military style firearms were ok for US military. Then it all changed. I had to get a German gun licence. Not a super big pain, mostly just waiting on certain papers to come back. Also, my ARs are military weapons here. So I could not register them under the German system. I had to keep them in the Arms room until I was able to ship them back to the States.

I did purchase several European guns for cheap. The US Rod and Gun club (the one in Heidelburg is about the only one open anymore). The basically sell the guns for like 3% over German wholesale. Examples: H&k MK-23 -$996, H&K P8 pistol- $455, Sako TRG-22 -$1500.

You dont need any Officer to sign off on purchases, unless you are E-4 or below. Once you have your German gun licence, you can pick them up the same day.

Going to a German range is also not very much fun. You can only load 5 rounds in a mag. Only one mag can be loaded at a time. YOu only can shoot bullseye targets.

Also remember that the bolt and barrel are the restricted parts. The receiver doesnt seem to matter. You can buy full auto receivers on the German economy without restriction.

The military is supposed to provide secure storage of your guns while you are in Germany. Check with Transportation.
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