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Posted: 9/17/2009 3:00:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 3:00:34 PM EST by Lancelot]
Just curious where folks at the range generally draw the line between "that's cool" and "that's too frakking much". I've seen some rifles where I've just shaken my head, then wonder if mine is subject to similar derision.

Or does the collective wisdom allow "whatever floats your boat"?

For full disclosure (and possible snickering ), my carbine has:

  • Red dot sight

  • Tactical sling

  • Flashlight (w/offset mount)

  • Bipod

  • Vertical foregrip

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:12:34 AM EST
i think lasers are a bit too much
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:15:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:19:01 AM EST by mathecb]
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:16:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:19:09 AM EST by jerz_subbie]
Originally Posted By ander254:
i think lasers are a bit too much


Agreed. 99% of people have absolutely no need or use for a laser other than the 'tacti-cool movie factor' of saying they are going to put it between the eyes of a BG when/if he ever comfronts one.

Update in response to Jcrowl: I meant the AIm/UTG/Fobus/eGay lasers that mount like flashlights. Peq's Pev's or w/e they're called are pretty cool IMO.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:16:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By ander254:
i think lasers are a bit too much


I respectfully disagree


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:17:11 AM EST
i think you accessories should befit the rifles build. if it is a range plinker, it probably just needs a bipod and a scope. why would you put a flashlight on your plinker? now, on your shtf setup, you might have a light, foregrip, tac scope, sling, peq, etc.

But everyone who goes to the range is practicing using their specified setup. You might see some odd things there....but usually its someone trying to get used to using their particular system that works for them.

Now, I will admit...if you have 2 or more flashlights on your AR, I might have to start questioning your rig....
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:18:09 AM EST
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:20:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:21:04 AM EST by jcrowl]
Now THIS might be overkill
ARMS "Ring of Fire"

or this
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:21:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 6:11:24 AM EST by HardShell]
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:21:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:21:45 AM EST by HardShell]
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:22:10 AM EST
If the user of the rifle finds that the addition of an accessory benefits their efficiency with the item, and they demonstrate this by quickly , efficiently and accurately employing their rifle, then the accessory is good to go.

If the user has things on their rifle that they a.) dont know how to use, b.) don't use or c.) they fiddle with it wasting time while trying to use it, that item should probably be removed or mastery developed.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:23:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:29:55 AM EST
the answer is: you can start laughing when the amount of accessories make the rifle uncomfortable, impractical, or impossible to carry and shoot AND/OR negatively impact reliability, function, or performance.

on a side note, WTF is wrong with this site lately?

Originally Posted By jerz_subbie:
99% of people have absolutely no need or use for a laser other than the 'tacti-cool movie factor'


what need or use do you have for high capacity magazines?
what need or use do you have for a rifle that shoots .50 BMG?
what need or use do you have for a flash hider?
what need or use do you have for a suppressor?
.
.
.
what need or use do you have for a magazine fed semi-automatic rifle?

stop thinking like a liberal idiot. this same logic is what authored the original lautenburg assault weapon ban in NJ and eventually adopted it federally... have you forgotten that for 10 years we couldn't own half the guns/configurations we can today because some jackass liberal politicians didn't think we "needed them"?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:34:29 AM EST
There is nothing wrong with IR lasers or Night vision

many here say civis had no need––––-well then go get a rem 700 in 243 and become a Fudd

NVGs and IR illuminators/ lasers are far more useful than a a 400 lumen light which most here drool over.

I frown upon the idea of a SHTF rifle that is not Night vision ready...you are denying yourself half of the day and the ability to protect yourself.

As far as red/ green lasers go the best use I have seen for them is SHTF to hand the rifle to an untrained person and they can use the laser to hit targets.

Stuff that is not needed depends on the set up and purpose...red dots on bull barrel rigs, VFGs on bull barrel rigs, bipods, on fighting carbines ect.

nothing wrong with lasers if the resaon for thier use is correct....like everything else it is useless unless zeroed
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:38:55 AM EST
Generally if I see a gun with KNS pins installed, I know I'm dealing with a GOOFBALL!
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:41:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By markm:
Generally if I see a gun with KNS pins installed, I know I'm dealing with a GOOFBALL!


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:42:55 AM EST

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:43:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 5:44:44 AM EST by HardShell]
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 5:45:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By lostman518:
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded[/quote]

Please do elaborate.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:26:10 AM EST
Visible lasers kinda make me roll my eyes.

Aside from that: Cheap crap on an expensive gun.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:38:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I disagree with this. Some guys actually use that stuff, for example, to hunt hogs at night.

I only 'laugh' at those who put stuff on their rifle with no intention of ever using it.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:56:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 7:57:08 AM EST by sredish]

Generally if I see a gun with KNS pins installed, I know I'm dealing with a GOOFBALL!



the pins on my 6.8 move... it's an ignorant statement to say your dealing with a goofball because he's using kns pins. should i not use them because you don't approve, then let the pins move on my rifle potentially causing a trigger issue, or should i use them to ensure my rifle stays as reliable as possible and risk the chance of running into you and being judged?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 7:56:51 AM EST
I do have a laser on one of my ARs. Is it vital to have one? No. Is it fun to shoot?. Hell yes!

Part of the reason I shoot is enjoyment. A laser as an alternative sighting option without having to line up sights, squint thru scopes, or even properly mount the weapon, is a hoot.

You may find it to give a real world advantage, despite its weight, bulk, and shortcomings. If not, you can take it off.

Also, the bright green light may blind the zombies for a second, till they realize they can't see anyway.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:03:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By markm:
Generally if I see a gun with KNS pins installed, I know I'm dealing with a GOOFBALL!


I agree!

Wait...

DOH!

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:03:48 AM EST
It's your rifle, do what makes you happy. If that's function, good to go. If it's looking like a pic of some cool ass guy you saw on the internet, good to go. Too many people are assholes about this stuff.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:03:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 8:04:53 AM EST by JoshAR]
double tap sorry...

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:10:02 AM EST
what's the deal about KNs pins ? goofball ?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:10:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I agree, kind of.

I have no doubt that stuff is unbelievably cool and serves a purpose in rather rare circumstances, but to drag all that out to the range (other than the magnifier) you would look like a fool. I say keep that stuff at home (where it's safe) enjoy it and have it for that day when you really might need to use it. I have to say I'd snicker if I saw an IR illuminator or NV on a weapon at a range. But then they could just make fun of me for not being able to afford it...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:20:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 8:21:33 AM EST by Captains1911]
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lostman518:
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded[/quote]

Please do elaborate.


It just seems a little silly and unnecessary.


Do you mean a bi-pod and vertical grip on the same rifle? I agree that on the same rifle they are silly. I thought you guys were saying in general either a bi-pod or a vertical grip is retraded, in which I completely disagree as they each provide distinct advantages in certain circumstances.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:21:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:23:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 8:26:03 AM EST by AKSU]
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I wouldn't understand why you'd have those items mounted during daylight. Wish I had the disposible income to buy those items. I could care less what others mount on their weapons. If everyone was the same, it would surely be a very boring community.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:24:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By RussellAthletic:
I agree, kind of.

I have no doubt that stuff is unbelievably cool and serves a purpose in rather rare circumstances, but to drag all that out to the range (other than the magnifier) you would look like a fool. I say keep that stuff at home (where it's safe) enjoy it and have it for that day when you really might need to use it. I have to say I'd snicker if I saw an IR illuminator or NV on a weapon at a range. But then they could just make fun of me for not being able to afford it...


Depends on the circumstances. I'm not a precision shooter, but I do go to the range. I go to the range to test stuff out. Should I pull the flashlight off my defense weapon when I go to the range to test out some new ammo because it's unnecessary at the range just to put it back on when I leave? Or, should I leave it on keeping the rifle setup for the purpose it was intended for making sure the rifle remains reliable with how it's equipped? always practice how you intend to perform....

not being an arse, just pointing other ways to think about things.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:26:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lostman518:
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded[/quote]

Please do elaborate.


It just seems a little silly and unnecessary.


Do you mean a bi-pod and vertical grip on the same rifle? I agree that on the same rifle they are silly. I thought you guys were saying in general either a bi-pod or a vertical grip is retraded, in which I completely disagree as they each provide distinct advantages in certain circumstances.


in some cases, the vfg could help the operator support the extra weight of a bipod? just a thought there as well.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:27:33 AM EST
I posted this pic in a thread about 3X magnifires. The next post was " your rifle makes me laugh".

I inquired as to what was the source of humor, and the response was "it reminds me of that pic with the ar with everything in the world on it"

At lease one person finds my rifle pretty funny.


Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:27:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By echofivekilo:
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I disagree with this. Some guys actually use that stuff, for example, to hunt hogs at night.

I only 'laugh' at those who put stuff on their rifle with no intention of ever using it.



Which is 99% of the people who own that stuff. Thats why its generally funny.
Im aware of the night hunters.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:29:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By RussellAthletic:
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I agree, kind of.

I have no doubt that stuff is unbelievably cool and serves a purpose in rather rare circumstances, but to drag all that out to the range (other than the magnifier) you would look like a fool. I say keep that stuff at home (where it's safe) enjoy it and have it for that day when you really might need to use it. I have to say I'd snicker if I saw an IR illuminator or NV on a weapon at a range. But then they could just make fun of me for not being able to afford it...



So you are saying that when I go to the range I should dismount my Peq2 so as not to offend your sensibilities and when I get back home where I am safe I should put it back on and hope really hard that my zero is the same with it?

Fool's errand
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:29:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:43:53 AM EST
i'm a great believer in the kiss setup which for me is:

defensive weapon
railed handguard
rail covers
rds
weapon light
sling

precision weapon
railed handguard
magnified optics
bipod
sling

each to their own and if you need to run more on your weapon, that's fine
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:51:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Miale:
i'm a great believer in the kiss setup which for me is:

defensive weapon
railed handguard
rail covers
rds
weapon light
sling

precision weapon
railed handguard
magnified optics
bipod
sling

each to their own and if you need to run more on your weapon, that's fine


that is the exact opposite of KISS, unless the definition is opposite on BIZARRO AR15.COM


hard-shell is right... leaving accessories at home because someone thinks it is dumb, is nowhere NEAR as dumb as going to use your weapon with the things attached and finding that the rifle doesn't balance, sights don't cowitness, you don't like how the light switch setup works, the VFG is too far forward, something gets tangled in your sling, etc etc etc

if you constantly find yourself at the range shooting without all of the crap attached, maybe you should rethink your setup, liquidate some of the extras, and use the money elsewhere...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:55:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lostman518:
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded[/quote]

Please do elaborate.


It just seems a little silly and unnecessary.


Do you mean a bi-pod and vertical grip on the same rifle? I agree that on the same rifle they are silly. I thought you guys were saying in general either a bi-pod or a vertical grip is retraded, in which I completely disagree as they each provide distinct advantages in certain circumstances.


I don't think a bipod and VFG on the same rifle are silly at all.



Navy SEAL Petty Officer Matthew Axelson, KIA Operation Redwing (Marcus Luttrel's book Lone Survivor).
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 8:58:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/17/2009 8:59:35 AM EST by RussellAthletic]
Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By RussellAthletic:
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I agree, kind of.

I have no doubt that stuff is unbelievably cool and serves a purpose in rather rare circumstances, but to drag all that out to the range (other than the magnifier) you would look like a fool. I say keep that stuff at home (where it's safe) enjoy it and have it for that day when you really might need to use it. I have to say I'd snicker if I saw an IR illuminator or NV on a weapon at a range. But then they could just make fun of me for not being able to afford it...



So you are saying that when I go to the range I should dismount my Peq2 so as not to offend your sensibilities and when I get back home where I am safe I should put it back on and hope really hard that my zero is the same with it?

Fool's errand


You can do whatever you wan, your money, your rifle. I don't get "offended" by other people's choices. I personally would feel rather silly at a range with thousands of dollars of equipment that serves no function at the time. But I wouldn't ever mount all that crap on a rifle anyway. I keep it simple.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:07:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By markm:
Generally if I see a gun with KNS pins installed, I know I'm dealing with a GOOFBALL!


I'm hoping that it keeps my pre ban lower better for the long hall. Like to pass it to my son,"illegaly" some day. Another stupid law.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:09:35 AM EST
I like to think Im grown up enough not to talk shit or look down at someone, if it works for them, so be it, who are we to laugh?
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:34:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision



You must not hunt much at night :)
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:36:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lostman518:
i think having a bipod and vert grip is retarded[/quote]

Please do elaborate.


He shouldn't have to. It's his opinion, and I'm pretty sure he stated as such


I don't like VFG or BPs either...
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:52:13 AM EST
Visible lasers and folding vertical foregrips are in my top 5.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 9:59:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By RussellAthletic:
Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By RussellAthletic:
Originally Posted By mathecb:
For a civilian AR-15:

Lasers
IR illuminators
Magnifiers
Night Vision


I agree, kind of.

I have no doubt that stuff is unbelievably cool and serves a purpose in rather rare circumstances, but to drag all that out to the range (other than the magnifier) you would look like a fool. I say keep that stuff at home (where it's safe) enjoy it and have it for that day when you really might need to use it. I have to say I'd snicker if I saw an IR illuminator or NV on a weapon at a range. But then they could just make fun of me for not being able to afford it...



So you are saying that when I go to the range I should dismount my Peq2 so as not to offend your sensibilities and when I get back home where I am safe I should put it back on and hope really hard that my zero is the same with it?

Fool's errand


You can do whatever you wan, your money, your rifle. I don't get "offended" by other people's choices. I personally would feel rather silly at a range with thousands of dollars of equipment that serves no function at the time. But I wouldn't ever mount all that crap on a rifle anyway. I keep it simple.



You can use a NV scope to shoot during the day. It may not produce as good an image but thats what the pinhole filters are for.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:00:47 AM EST
It's all about how you use your tool not the size that matters Or at least i have convinced my wife of that..........
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:17:47 AM EST
I wish this "thread" would get moved to general discussion, this is stupid, pointless, and is becoming a pissing match.

The only reason I have ar's is because my gf says it turns her on.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:23:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By BANGBANG223:
what's the deal about KNs pins ? goofball ?

They demonstrate the person does not know how their gun works, or how to fix a problem with it.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 10:34:44 AM EST
This is just a "KISS" thread with a different name.

The stuff on your rifle all has a purpose. The missions drives the gear bus. Seeing people with NV during the day is silly, but NV is not. A light during the day might be silly, but I train with my light attached so I'm familiar with it on there when I need it. KNS pins can't hurt, and I see them on a lot of good builders' personal weapons, so...

Laser? Why is that silly? IR laser? Does it do anything without the NV?

Bad gear works badly, good gear works.
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