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Posted: 8/22/2005 1:46:46 AM EDT
Richardson: Border Fence is Anti-Immigrant
Aug. 21, 2005
Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff
www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/21/103525.shtml
Gov. Bill Richardson, who won plaudits this week from foes of illegal immigration after he declared a state of emergency along New Mexico's southern border, said Sunday that plans to construct a border fence are anti-immigrant.

"A fence at the border is not going to work because, first of all, they're easily porous, and that sends a message that America is a nation that is not valuing immigrants," Richardson told ABC's "This Week."

The New Mexico Democrat said he favors beefing up the Border Patrol instead, explaining: "You [add] border agents - 10,000 of them. Couple them with new technologies, like some of these [unmanned] vehicles and lasers and detection equipment."
Republicans, on the other hand, have praised the border fence provisions included in the Real ID Act of 2005, which funds the completion of a multi-layered fence along the California-Mexico border.

"One of the things the Real ID Act does is to build a double fence where there will be a path that the Border Patrol can run cars and SUVs on, between 40 and 50 miles an hour, to catch illegal aliens who jump over the first fence before they get to the second fence," Rep. James Sensenbrenner explained in March.

"West of [San Diego], that kind of a fence has worked, and it stopped the 10 murders a year that have occurred on the old segment of the border, and 300 drug runs in trucks per month have been stopped by that fence."

"We need to complete the fence," he urged.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 1:52:24 AM EDT
Few "trespassers will be shot" signs in english would work. Why english, CAUSE THIS IS AMERICA MOTHER FUCKER and then let some people that don't mind popping an illegal or 40 sit near the signs and pop em.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 1:55:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Few "trespassers will be shot" signs in english would work. Why english, CAUSE THIS IS AMERICA MOTHER FUCKER and then let some people that don't mind popping an illegal or 40 sit near the signs and pop em.



+(how much ammo you got)
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:11:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 2:12:12 AM EDT by FredM]
Shooting people for trying to cross the border is wrong.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:15:34 AM EDT
so is shooting them for trying to cross the border. but I'd be shooting them for trying to steal from the entire tax paying country.

As far as ammo. Here comes the flogging. I've been shooting a lot lately. and uhm well

uhm



uh.

<­BR>



bout 50 rounds of .40 cal ranger


100 rounds of 165 gr .40 cal white box.


and none for my sks.

Actually I have about 3000 rounds for my sks but its stolen at the moment along with about 19 of my guns. Dad has all the guns I acquired before I turned 18 in his name, and when my parents divorced he took them all. When he dies I'm getting my shit back, and collecting on the life insurance I have on him.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:18:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Shooting people for trying to cross the border legally is wrong.


Fixed it for you.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:18:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Shooting people for trying to cross the border is wrong.



When is it "okay" to take a life(legally, morally)?

As I understand it............it is based on the threat that the individual\group presents

What happened to sovereignty? What happened to rule of law? What happened to our Border?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:24:06 AM EDT
They piss the law away by trying to border jump. When a group of people is mooching off a society so badly that people are dieing because all our healthcare money has gone to illegals, then how is that different from them murdering the same people. Not to mention with the border being so open and it hard to come through the airport for a terrorist, anyone coming over that border could be the next 9/11 bomber. FUCK EM.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:27:00 AM EDT
Regulate the border a little better first. Make it known that crossing will not be tolerated. Have our leaders speak out against illegals. Right now everyone welcomes them across, calls them "citizens" (Condi Rice) and big business loves their cheap labor. Politicians want to grab their vote as the largest growing minority.

So shooting some guy who knows the situation is wrong. Take care of own turd sandwich first.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:29:50 AM EDT
Actually fred, I pretty much agree. But shooting some would work pretty quick, good ways, evil ways, we're all in it together.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:02:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 3:06:17 AM EDT by Hmanjr]

Originally Posted By FredM:
Shooting people for trying to cross the border is wrong.



Defending your country from a 20 million strong invading army is morally correct.

Can we be faulted if they didn't bring guns or form into regular formations. It just makes 'em easier to pick off.

Edited to add: No illegals, legals, or puppies or kittens were harmed in making this post. It expresses the extreme frustration of this poster.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:52:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Regulate the border a little better first. Make it known that crossing will not be tolerated. Have our leaders speak out against illegals. Right now everyone welcomes them across, calls them "citizens" Take care of own turd sandwich first.



Hell yes, regulate it first

Better yet, why don't we enforce the regulations (Laws) we have now?

and that TURD SANDWICH Richardson is a complete moron!

WTF are these idiots thinking?

We cannot afford to feed, house, pay medical care, and otherwise carry illegals.

For that matter even afford to imprison the felons among them (see California dollars spent on prison costs for illegals - it is scary how much is spent)

Oh, and English as our official language would be a good start!

(Rant not off)
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:55:15 AM EDT
just shoot them..
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:58:03 AM EDT
How can people continue to say "just shoot them"? You guys KNOW that this sort of use of deadly physical force is ILLEGAL, unjustified no matter what mental gymnastics you go through to justify the position, and speaks poorly of gun owners in general.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:01:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:03:07 AM EDT
Jail anyone who hires an illegal.

Richardson is all talk no action (hire more .gov workers solves everything) - typical politician double speak.

Build a triple fence, marked clearly in several languages. Make the middle one hot.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:14:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FredM:
Shooting people for trying to cross the border is wrong.


Try sneaking into Mexico from Guatemala or Belize, slick.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:14:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
How can people continue to say "just shoot them"? You guys KNOW that this sort of use of deadly physical force is ILLEGAL, unjustified no matter what mental gymnastics you go through to justify the position, and speaks poorly of gun owners in general.



Its easy...just shoot them...see

Look, these illegals are swarming across the border, because they know they can, and there are no repercussions. If they knew they had to worry about getting their ass popped, I am sure it would cut it back quite a bit.

And what part of declaring crossing the border illegally is a crime punishable by death is so bad. You want to come to this country legally, cool, more power to you. But we need to stop the illegal crossing stuff, and deadly force is a good way to do it.

It is out of hand, and just because the liberal f*cks in this country think it is delightful to have illegals swarming across our borders, doesn't mean its right or good. Can't seem to stop them with other ways...but fear is a great deterrent....
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:19:10 AM EDT
Shoot em. It's not like they are on the endangered species list.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:21:39 AM EDT
didnt Richardson just declare state of emergency in some of the New Mexico border towns because of all of the illegals ?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:22:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:
You want to come to this country legally, cool, more power to you. But we need to stop the illegal crossing stuff, and deadly force is a good way to do it.



The best way to deal with illegal immigration is to revamp the legal immigration system and deal with the reasons why people feel the need to come to the USA in the first place.

Deadly physical force should remain legal only in immediate defense of self or a third party from death or serious physical injury, the current legal standard. Anything else is inappropriate.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:38:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:45:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 6:49:51 AM EDT by Andreuha]
"Just shoot them" means "SET AN EXAMPLE"
Arresting a few does nothing, just wastes money and more will come. Once photos of bodies lying feet before fence # 1 are 'leaked' to the press, regardless of the leftie shit-fit, there won't be a whole lot of people venturing near our little fence.

Edit: I wonder if any brave minutemen will take up such a mission (capping em while they're still on the mexico side).

Seriously though, as harsh as it sounds, a few bodies will go a long way.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:53:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The reason is that Mexico SUCKS, but Vincente wants to cooperate on the problem instead of actually doing something about it. Anything we do that might have an effect is immediately greeted with screeches of "racism!" and condemnation from Mexico. The Mexican government is actively encouraging illegal emigration to the US. (Yes, I used the right word.) The incoming Mexicans are obviously a voting bloc that both major parties are competing for. They stand to gain from the illegal influx.
How can ANY progress be made in such an evironment?



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so.

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:58:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The reason is that Mexico SUCKS, but Vincente wants to cooperate on the problem instead of actually doing something about it. Anything we do that might have an effect is immediately greeted with screeches of "racism!" and condemnation from Mexico. The Mexican government is actively encouraging illegal emigration to the US. (Yes, I used the right word.) The incoming Mexicans are obviously a voting bloc that both major parties are competing for. They stand to gain from the illegal influx.
How can ANY progress be made in such an evironment?



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so.

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA.



You'd be surprised at how many illegals come here through the Canadian border, too
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 6:59:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The reason is that Mexico SUCKS, but Vincente wants to cooperate on the problem instead of actually doing something about it. Anything we do that might have an effect is immediately greeted with screeches of "racism!" and condemnation from Mexico. The Mexican government is actively encouraging illegal emigration to the US. (Yes, I used the right word.) The incoming Mexicans are obviously a voting bloc that both major parties are competing for. They stand to gain from the illegal influx.
How can ANY progress be made in such an evironment?



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so.

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA.



You'd be surprised at how many illegals come here through the Canadian border, too



Let me be the first to say it:

Just shoot them.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:02:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

sends a message



Man I hate Democrats. Everything is about sending messages and soothing feelings rather than actually doing something. Its like listening to Lifetime or something.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:04:43 AM EDT
End immigration of any kind. America is full.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:09:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
End immigration of any kind. America is full.


Far from it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:11:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:17:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 7:19:21 AM EDT by Charging_Handle]
We should be doing everything we can to protect the border, including a fence, hiring many extra border patrol officers, using drones, etc. Anyone who truly cared about the border would be willing to use any means necessary to stop the crap that's going on down there. Richardson doesn't care. His statement shows his true colors, which most of us already knew last week when some people were praising him for declaring that 4 county state of emergency.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:18:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
]We aren't the world's police, nor the world's economic savior. Yes, I recognize that people are leaving Mexico because it's an economically depressed country. We've been shown many times in history that we can pour enough resources into another country to totally rebuild it, but once they're left to their own devices, they tear it back down or let it rot. Our money gets wasted.

Private businesses are there to make a profit. How can you persuade them that they should undertake trying to salvage Mexico's devastated economy?



Actually, whether we want to be or not, we ARE the worlds police force at the moment. We are not the first to fill that role, nor should we be the last.

There have been just as many examples of economic success in our past as failures. Look at post WW2 Europe.

Companies are there to make a profit, sure. They shouldn't be allowed to do so by paying what equates to poverty wages. A dollar an hour is NOT a viable salary when the Mexicans can cross the border and even under the table make more than that. Take away the wage disparity and you'll take away the illegal immigration. It is in our national best interest to see that this happens, if the immigration problem is as bad as some of you drone on repeatedly about.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:36:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
]We aren't the world's police, nor the world's economic savior. Yes, I recognize that people are leaving Mexico because it's an economically depressed country. We've been shown many times in history that we can pour enough resources into another country to totally rebuild it, but once they're left to their own devices, they tear it back down or let it rot. Our money gets wasted.

Private businesses are there to make a profit. How can you persuade them that they should undertake trying to salvage Mexico's devastated economy?



Actually, whether we want to be or not, we ARE the worlds police force at the moment. We are not the first to fill that role, nor should we be the last.

There have been just as many examples of economic success in our past as failures. Look at post WW2 Europe.

Companies are there to make a profit, sure. They shouldn't be allowed to do so by paying what equates to poverty wages. A dollar an hour is NOT a viable salary when the Mexicans can cross the border and even under the table make more than that. Take away the wage disparity and you'll take away the illegal immigration. It is in our national best interest to see that this happens, if the immigration problem is as bad as some of you drone on repeatedly about.



Lets see, massive economic reform and support of Mexico to slow or stop illegal entry....cost to taxpayers...billions.

Popping ILLEGAL border jumpers coming across to slow or stop illegal entry....cost to taxpayers....$5000 or so in ammo.

Which one do I support?

You wouldn't happen to be a liberal or dem would you? You sure sound like one.....
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:36:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.



Sounds like you're advocating a, dare I say it, regime change? Wow, war with Mexico. And I thought just shooting illegals was drastic.



Link Posted: 8/22/2005 7:40:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
End immigration of any kind. America is full.


Far from it.



I agree with Piston man. Close the gates for awhile.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Lets see, massive economic reform and support of Mexico to slow or stop illegal entry....cost to taxpayers...billions.

Popping ILLEGAL border jumpers coming across to slow or stop illegal entry....cost to taxpayers....$5000 or so in ammo.

Which one do I support?

You wouldn't happen to be a liberal or dem would you? You sure sound like one.....


If the definition of a liberal has been narrowed to being someone who wont shoot another person illegally, then Conservatives need to rethink their values and exactly why anyone would want to be considered a conservative with the sorts of values you espouse.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:16:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Sounds like you're advocating a, dare I say it, regime change? Wow, war with Mexico. And I thought just shooting illegals was drastic.



I'm advocating that Mexico adopt a two party system of its own free will.We've been happy tolerating their current political system for decades because it benefited US interests at some level. Its time Mexico caught up with the rest of the world.No, I 'm NOT advocating war.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:30:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
If the definition of a liberal has been narrowed to being someone who wont shoot another person illegally, then Conservatives need to rethink their values and exactly why anyone would want to be considered a conservative with the sorts of values you espouse.



Why, because the "values" I espouse would be an actual deterrant to ILLEGAL imigration, as opposed to the tremedous waste of money you propose for a liberal, feel good, can't we all just get along solution?

No, but this stuff seems to fit my definition of a liberal...


Actually, whether we want to be or not, we ARE the worlds police force at the moment. We are not the first to fill that role, nor should we be the last.

There have been just as many examples of economic success in our past as failures. Look at post WW2 Europe.

Companies are there to make a profit, sure. They shouldn't be allowed to do so by paying what equates to poverty wages. A dollar an hour is NOT a viable salary when the Mexicans can cross the border and even under the table make more than that. Take away the wage disparity and you'll take away the illegal immigration. It is in our national best interest to see that this happens, if the immigration problem is as bad as some of you drone on repeatedly about.




You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so. So you are suggesting that somehow its our responsibility to do this, sounds like a socialist more than liberal attitude

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA. Sure, lets spend billions in US tax dollars to help Mexico's economy, and make it MUCH easier for Mexican immigration, so easy that they won't need to try to make it illegally, sounds pretty liberal to me

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:35:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:

Originally Posted By FredM:
Shooting people for trying to cross the border is wrong.


Try sneaking into Mexico from Guatemala or Belize, slick.



+1
Nobody ever reads the common sense posts. As a matter of fact, sneak into mex from america nad get caught. Wont be fun I asssure you.
CH
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 8:42:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 8:45:23 AM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By pzjgr:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
If the definition of a liberal has been narrowed to being someone who wont shoot another person illegally, then Conservatives need to rethink their values and exactly why anyone would want to be considered a conservative with the sorts of values you espouse.



Why, because the "values" I espouse would be an actual deterrant to ILLEGAL imigration, as opposed to the tremedous waste of money you propose for a liberal, feel good, can't we all just get along solution?



You people complain about the money thats aready being wasted, right?Dealing with Mexicos issues are going to cost us money one way or another. Nor do I propose that we bail out Mexico in some fashion. Where did I say that in this thread.

The values you "espouse " concern killing someone. Thats serious business, and I question anyones values who is so flippant about killing another human being over immigration issues of all things.


No, but this stuff seems to fit my definition of a liberal...


Actually, whether we want to be or not, we ARE the worlds police force at the moment. We are not the first to fill that role, nor should we be the last.

There have been just as many examples of economic success in our past as failures. Look at post WW2 Europe.



Exactly how is this a "liberal" viewpoint?We went into postwar Europe and rebuilt it. Our economic intervention in that instance was not a failure, contrary to the claim that I was replying to.


Companies are there to make a profit, sure. They shouldn't be allowed to do so by paying what equates to poverty wages. A dollar an hour is NOT a viable salary when the Mexicans can cross the border and even under the table make more than that. Take away the wage disparity and you'll take away the illegal immigration. It is in our national best interest to see that this happens, if the immigration problem is as bad as some of you drone on repeatedly about.



Again, how is this a liberal concept? we have allowed US corporations to set up shop down there paying wages that are so low, the Mexicans get compensated better by sneaking into the USA. If Canadas wage scale was so far off from ours, you would see Canadaians sneaking across the US border. You don't.


You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so. So you are suggesting that somehow its our responsibility to do this, sounds like a socialist more than liberal attitude


We are the ones that allowed the US corporations to set up shop down there in the first place, in the process closing down many US businesses in the process so they could go south of the border. So yes, it IS our responsibility.


I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA. Sure, lets spend billions in US tax dollars to help Mexico's economy, and make it MUCH easier for Mexican immigration, so easy that they won't need to try to make it illegally, sounds pretty liberal to me




If the problem is ILLEGAL immigration, then fixing the LEGAL immigration system, to include a day-workers program much as we have with Canada, should go a long way towards fixing the illegal immigration problem with Mexico.

I suspect that much of the protest here about Mexicans has nothing to do with theimmigrants illegal status. Thats just a smaokescreen, an excuse. I think there are a lot of folks here who are just plain anti-Mexican, legal or not. They are no different than the previous generations of anti-immigrants who protested the immigration of Jews, Italians, etc a hundred years ago.If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be complaining about changing the legal immigration system.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 9:39:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 9:47:23 AM EDT by TacticalPenguin]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By Andreuha:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The reason is that Mexico SUCKS, but Vincente wants to cooperate on the problem instead of actually doing something about it. Anything we do that might have an effect is immediately greeted with screeches of "racism!" and condemnation from Mexico. The Mexican government is actively encouraging illegal emigration to the US. (Yes, I used the right word.) The incoming Mexicans are obviously a voting bloc that both major parties are competing for. They stand to gain from the illegal influx.
How can ANY progress be made in such an evironment?



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so.

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA.



You'd be surprised at how many illegals come here through the Canadian border, too



Let me be the first to say it:

Just shoot them.




unlike Mexico we can own firearms..... We shoot back


Originally Posted By tc556guy:
If the problem is ILLEGAL immigration, then fixing the LEGAL immigration system, to include a day-workers program much as we have with Canada, should go a long way towards fixing the illegal immigration problem with Mexico.




Spoken like someone who has never tried to get work in the USofA from Canada, it is not an easy thing to go from Canada to the US unless you have skills in dire need in the US, an employer willing to sponsor you, and a heap of cash. It is easier to come into the US legally via Mexico than Canada.....
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 9:45:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 10:40:10 AM EDT by nightstalker]
"A fence at the border is not going to work because, first of all, they're easily porous, and that sends a message that America is a nation that is not valuing immigrants," Richardson told ABC's "This Week."

On second reading I see he's just playin' the raza card...at best. Only the media could make sense of these comments.

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 9:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The reason is that Mexico SUCKS, but Vincente wants to cooperate on the problem instead of actually doing something about it. Anything we do that might have an effect is immediately greeted with screeches of "racism!" and condemnation from Mexico. The Mexican government is actively encouraging illegal emigration to the US. (Yes, I used the right word.) The incoming Mexicans are obviously a voting bloc that both major parties are competing for. They stand to gain from the illegal influx.
How can ANY progress be made in such an evironment?



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so.

I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.

Beyond that, the current quota numbers for legal Mexican immigration needs to be revisited.

I think that would be a place to start to address the problem, not suggest that we should start shooting people crossing into the USA.

We aren't the world's police, nor the world's economic savior. Yes, I recognize that people are leaving Mexico because it's an economically depressed country. We've been shown many times in history that we can pour enough resources into another country to totally rebuild it, but once they're left to their own devices, they tear it back down or let it rot. Our money gets wasted.
Private businesses are there to make a profit. How can you persuade them that they should undertake trying to salvage Mexico's devastated economy?



The immigrant's that come to the US, legal or not, recognize that Mexico is a long way from fixing their system. They, and many other immigrants recognize also that the unseen forces that keep freedom and a strong economy alive are here, even if they're hard to define. The evidence is the relative success of those who come and put in the effort. There's really no other explanation for why they risk so much to be here.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 10:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

You people complain about the money thats aready being wasted, right?Dealing with Mexicos issues are going to cost us money one way or another. Nor do I propose that we bail out Mexico in some fashion. Where did I say that in this thread.

The values you "espouse " concern killing someone. Thats serious business, and I question anyones values who is so flippant about killing another human being over immigration issues of all things.



So apparently you think people coming over the border ILLEGALLY is no biggie, no problem. While some may want to get to the US for freedom of economic reasons, many are criminals, scumbags, and quite possibly Al Queda terrorists. I have no problem killing people coming over the border illegally, they shouldn't be doing, they won't stop, use the force necessary



Actually, whether we want to be or not, we ARE the worlds police force at the moment. We are not the first to fill that role, nor should we be the last.

There have been just as many examples of economic success in our past as failures. Look at post WW2 Europe.

Exactly how is this a "liberal" viewpoint?We went into postwar Europe and rebuilt it. Our economic intervention in that instance was not a failure, contrary to the claim that I was replying to.



We haven't been at war with Mexico, we didn't destroy its infrastructure, and we aren't destroying its current form of Government to be replaced with something different. WE HAVE NO RESPONSIBILTY to help them...just to keep the illegals out.


Companies are there to make a profit, sure. They shouldn't be allowed to do so by paying what equates to poverty wages. A dollar an hour is NOT a viable salary when the Mexicans can cross the border and even under the table make more than that. Take away the wage disparity and you'll take away the illegal immigration. It is in our national best interest to see that this happens, if the immigration problem is as bad as some of you drone on repeatedly about.


Again, how is this a liberal concept? we have allowed US corporations to set up shop down there paying wages that are so low, the Mexicans get compensated better by sneaking into the USA. If Canadas wage scale was so far off from ours, you would see Canadaians sneaking across the US border. You don't.



We have no power or authority to dictate to the Mexican nation on how it should run its businesses or how it pays its people...and we have no responsibility to alter ours to match theirs. If businesses down there pay so little, how do you plan to change...unless you advocate a full scale war with Mexico..then we can do what we want. But otherwise, it sounds like pie in the sky liberal talk "ohh, the poor oppressed people of Mexico deserve better, we should force them to make their peoples lives better" Boo hoo, I don't care....



You start out with jobs. US corporations that set up shop in Mexico did so because they could get away with paying dirt cheap wages to their Mexican workers. The Mexicans coming across the border come here for jobs that even as under the table jobs pay better than what they can find back home. If you want them to stay home, the Mexican employment situation needs to be improved. You don't see Canadians storming the US Northern border because they have a decent standard of living at home and theres a sane policy in place that allows Canadians on the border who wish to work in the USA legally to do so


Jesus, if that is a statement out of Marxism/Bolshevism/Communism I don't know what is...IT ISN"T OUR PROBLEM...sounds like its a Mexican problem...How, exactly, are we going to improve the Mexican job situation?



We are the ones that allowed the US corporations to set up shop down there in the first place, in the process closing down many US businesses in the process so they could go south of the border. So yes, it IS our responsibility.


Uh, no it isn't. As much as I may hate the outpouring of jobs, its not our fault that labor is so cheap down there. A good business goes where it can make money. Anif you want to bitch about that, blame the UNIONS in this country who have taken it to a point where it is now much more attractive to pick up stakes and move south of the border. Union f*cking workers who have gotten fat, bloated contracts and benefits to the point of bankrupting US business. I mean uneducated textile workers whose unions are demanding $30 plus per hour wages and unbeleivable benefits packages....It is their fault it is much more attractive to hire Pablo at $2.00 an hour....


I agree that the Mexican political system needs to be changed. One party rule for decades is a failed proposition for any nation.


How you gonna do that if they don't want to...only way I know is force...we strike from Texas and enevelop Mexico City, and install the system we want....

Or maybe we can ask nicely as you would probably suggest...please, pretty please, change your government....


If the problem is ILLEGAL immigration, then fixing the LEGAL immigration system, to include a day-workers program much as we have with Canada, should go a long way towards fixing the illegal immigration problem with Mexico.


Like how? What make it easy to come in....just sign your name or make your mark...welcome in? Yeah, day workers, you yourself said the problem is Mexico blows as far as standard of living...once they get in, why would they go back?


I suspect that much of the protest here about Mexicans has nothing to do with theimmigrants illegal status. Thats just a smaokescreen, an excuse. I think there are a lot of folks here who are just plain anti-Mexican, legal or not. They are no different than the previous generations of anti-immigrants who protested the immigration of Jews, Italians, etc a hundred years ago.If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be complaining about changing the legal immigration system.


The current LEGAL system seem to work fine for the thousands of immigrants who come to this country legally every year...the ones who don't mind doing the work required as opposed to those who know they can just jump the border with no consequences and are pretty much home free thanks to the namby pamby liberals, socialists, and RINO's who pander to them.

Your statement that those advocating a much stronger stance on ILLEGAL immigration are just a bunch of anti-Mexican bigots rings of liberalism to me also....
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 1:55:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 12:25:45 AM EDT by Hmanjr]
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Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:18:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 5:54:26 PM EDT
why can't people understand we're against illegal aliens, not legal immigration?
some guy at another forum was trying to become a citizen. he and his family were here legally but on a limited length (visa maybe?) INS took too fucking long processing shit and he and his family had to go back. I felt bad because here was a guy with a middle class job, trying to obey the law and INS fucked him, yet all these politicians are bending over for the fucking illegals that show nothing but disrepect for this country by not even coming here legally
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:10:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hmanjr:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
I suspect that much of the protest here about Mexicans has nothing to do with theimmigrants illegal status. Thats just a smaokescreen, an excuse. I think there are a lot of folks here who are just plain anti-Mexican, legal or not. They are no different than the previous generations of anti-immigrants who protested the immigration of Jews, Italians, etc a hundred years ago.If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't be complaining about changing the legal immigration system.



Ha, ha. That's funny. Throw out the race card!!! Oh my god, he called me a racist!!! We must stop talking about illegal aliens, else someone might thing us insensitive!!!

All sarcasm aside. Times are different. 20 Million spreading like a plague into every corner of our nation eating it from the inside like cancer causing the host organ to mutate.

Sure, in history there may have been communities stressed out becuse of the influx of newcomers was greater than their ability to be absorbed. Causing localized unrest.

However, this isn't a history class, this is today, this is everywere in every corner of our nation. We have the benefit of history. We have the benefit of choosing how we react to the invasion and perversion of our country.

If some people want to give illegals water, then some people have just as much right to say "skin them alive and stake 'em at the border to use their fleshless bodies as a warning". Talk is still cheap and free. You won't see American's at the border killing illegals no matter how much it's talked about. So lighten up francis, the illegals are perfectly safe in their 'safe-havens' and their 'under-the-table-jobs' and their ''50-person-single-family-dorm-in-the-suburb' and will sleep well tonight knowing they're immune to our laws.

You will see mexicans on their southern border killing those who want to go there.



I get sooooo tired of ignorant people playing the race card, this is one of MY many threads about illegals
I have had a couple of hispanic girlfriends, dated a couple more, asked out a couple more
I spent three YEARS in school learning spanish and 20+ years practicing as much as possible
I didn't do all that to HIDE my disgust at people with hispanic heritage you ignorant a$$
If you see evil in men's hearts everywhere you look............ask a psychiatrist what that means
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:19:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 12:25:59 AM EDT by Hmanjr]
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Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:22:05 PM EDT
I don't like all the shooting comments.

Would you open fire on Salma Hayek?
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:26:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 11:27:24 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Silesius:
I don't like all the shooting comments.

Would you open fire on Salma Hayek?



It is looking like nothing else will work
did you see the other thread where the family lives by the border
and the BP warned them to just NOT GO to parts of their own land

Does no one see a problem with this........hint: sovereignty + private property + LEO warning = invasion
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