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Posted: 1/20/2013 7:57:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 10:51:26 AM EDT by Indyryder3x]
So with all the topics saying that retired police shouldn't be exempt from high capacity, I think we are missing something.

By all means I support retired police to be able to carry high capacity. I do not think that they are above us, nor should they be held in higher reguard. I also think that they are proving something for us "common folk" in the process and no one has mentioned this aspect.

Simply stating that if they are in the position to stop a violent act 7 rounds may not be enough. Perfect, because criminals don't attack the police, they attack citizens who may not be in the position to defend themselves. So if all the retired police are calling for the restrictions to be removed on them, they are also indirectly stating that as a common man themselves, they would be at a disadvantage as repeated articles are stating that criminals will not follow these laws.

Thank you for your service to our communities and also proving our point that gun control only puts honest people at a disadvantage.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:59:56 AM EDT
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:07:37 AM EDT
Here is what we are missing, wether by design or stupidity this administration has successfully driven a wedge between citizens and government.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:07:44 AM EDT
Fuck THAT!!! They retired. They're now just a PEON like I am, and they need to realize that they're no more above the Law than I am.
Besides, I've heard somewhere that Retired Officers can 'conceal carry" permanently without going through the channels like I had to, to get a CCW/CHP license.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:09:13 AM EDT
They rammed it through so fast in NY they didn't make provisions for the more equal animals.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:09:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Triumphman:
Fuck THAT!!! They retired. They're now just a PEON like I am, and they need to realize that they're no more above the Law than I am.
Besides, I've heard somewhere that Retired Officers can 'conceal carry" permanently without going through the channels like I had to, to get a CCW/CHP license.


They were a PEON like you before they retired too.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:42:34 AM EDT
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:43:33 AM EDT
Fuggem. Welcome to the ranks of oppressed peasantry.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:43:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".


This
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:45:01 AM EDT
Funny how so many here want these retired cops guarding schools.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:45:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:47:36 AM EDT
If recent events are any indication, NY city cops are some of the least responsible, least trained gun owners in existence.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:49:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.


The problem is, those retired officers don't think they are just like the rest of us. They think they are special and deserve special rules.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:49:47 AM EDT
OP I think it is YOU that is missing the point.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:52:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Funny how so many here want these retired cops guarding schools.


Nobody said anything about using retired cops to guard. Sorry to bust your bubble but you can keep your ass at home.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:55:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:07:38 AM EDT
but in what situation will they be in that you wouldn't be as a regular civilian?

I'm on the same page with you guys as far as if we can't have them, they shouldn't, and if they have them, we should.

They will still be in the same stores buying food, crossing the same street, helping the same people on the side of the road.

What they are doing is putting light on a law that was passed. They are openly saying criminals don't follow the laws.

Get it? I'm not saying they should be exempt; they are saying directly to those who made the laws that it won't work and puts people at a greater risk including themselves.

They are in the same daily situations as everyone of us.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:08:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.


The cops are NOT fighting indirectly for your rights.

They are fighting for THEIR rights and want the "citizens" to be disarmed. The FOP and top LEOs in NY have outright said they think they're more equal than others.

You're giving their fight some kind of altruistic motives. You would be wrong.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:10:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but in what situation will they be in that you wouldn't be as a regular civilian?

I'm on the same page with you guys as far as if we can't have them, they shouldn't, and if they have them, we should.

They will still be in the same stores buying food, crossing the same street, helping the same people on the side of the road.

What they are doing is putting light on a law that was passed. They are openly saying criminals don't follow the laws.

Get it? I'm not saying they should be exempt; they are saying directly to those who made the laws that it won't work and puts people at a greater risk including themselves.

They are in the same daily situations as everyone of us.


True. But never let the facts get in the way of a good political discussion.

Allowing them to fight our fight only means we'll still be screwed, because while your logic is sound the desired end-states of the cops vs. the gun owner are radically different.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:11:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.


The cops are NOT fighting indirectly for your rights.

They are fighting for THEIR rights and want the "citizens" to be disarmed. The FOP and top LEOs in NY have outright said they think they're more equal than others.

You're giving their fight some kind of altruistic motives. You would be wrong.
Nailed it.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:12:43 AM EDT
Retired cop is not any different to me than someone that was a cop for a couple of years then changed careers, who is now no different than any other law abiding person with concealed carry.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:13:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thylaughingman:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Funny how so many here want these retired cops guarding schools.


Nobody said anything about using retired cops to guard. Sorry to bust your bubble but you can keep your ass at home.


Posters have been saying that shit for weeks. And thanks, I will stay at home, whatever the fuck that means.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:15:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:

Originally Posted By The_Emu:


The problem is, those retired officers don't think they are just like the rest of us. They think they are special and deserve special rules.

I don't even think that is the problem, the problem is that many politicians are willing to agree with them, and that is a problem.


Good point.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:16:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 9:19:03 AM EDT by JordanJP]
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.


Who cares if it puts them at a disadvantage? They're not cops anymore. They don't deserve special treatment. Too fuckin' bad.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:16:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:18:13 AM EDT
Reitred police never have issues either! Wasn't some individual planning to cook and eat some poor woman? I agree, retired police are not above the law and any more deserving than anybody else.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:20:58 AM EDT
When I retire [Lord willing] I lose all my Federal and State certs in my field within one year and I have several pages of them that I must re-qualify or test on each year. I do not see why retired cops [please don't give me the "we put bad guys away" spiel] should have any more special dispensations then anyone else. I DO support their right to self defense and firearm ownership but with no less restrictions then the average law abiding person.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:22:44 AM EDT
so if many politicians will agree with EX-LE who are now civilians, they by law they are saying that there is no difference between civilians and EX-LE who live and contribute in regular daily life.. So if they exempt them, then there will be grounds to bring about lawsuits against the state, even more so then currently have been brought in recent days.

Believe me on on the same page. I have really enjoyed all the discussions lately about this stuff because how much more have we all learned and contributed to the cause.

I hope no one took offense to what i wrote, maybe just a different way of looking at it.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:23:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
So with all the topics saying that retired police shouldn't be exempt from high capacity, I think we are missing something.

By all means I support police active duty and retired to be able to carry high capacity. I also think that they are proving something for us "common folk" in the process and no one has mentioned this aspect.

Simply stating that if they are in the position to stop a violent act 7 rounds may not be enough. Perfect, because criminals don't attack the police, they attack citizens who may not be in the position to defend themselves. So if all the retired police are calling for the restrictions to be removed on them, they are also indirectly stating that as a common man themselves, they would be at a disadvantage as repeated articles are stating that criminals will not follow these laws.

Thank you for your service to our communities and also proving our point that gun control only puts honest people at a disadvantage.


The problem is that they think they are NOT a common citizen and deserve special treatment. I say they should eat a bag of dicks. Most of them probably supported all this BS and voted for zero. Ye reap what ye sow.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:26:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kbear:
Here is what we are missing, wether by design or stupidity this administration has successfully driven a wedge between citizens and government.


Absolutely THIS ^^^^

The issue really is what GOOD guys (police, non-police, mil in off base quarters, whatever) need to defend against BAD guys. The libs are masters of divide and conquer, pitting people who should be natural allies against each other, and walking away with a political victory in the end. The end result is that we all lose.

Personally, I'd rather see the police (active and retired) taking a vocal position that seven rounds is inadequate for anyone. Considering bad guys often work in groups, anyone can see that limiting mag capacity to an arbitrary seven rds will result in dead good guys.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:28:09 AM EDT
Sorry op, the police are fighting for the belief that they are above average joe, and only they should be allowed a special exemption in the law. The retired cop is no different than any other law abiding citizen and no dispensation should be given to them. If the law does not make sense for their segment of society, than it does not many sense for society period. Instead of fighting the law for a special exemption, the entire law should be attacked as a unreasonable restriction on the rights of the people.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:29:31 AM EDT
Active duty police officers shouldn't need more than the 7 rounds, because by liberal logic there will be no criminals with more than 7 rounds in their guns.

Look, enjoy your firearms rights while you can police officers, because if you think the liberals are big fans of LEO you're wrong. They'll disarm police officers in the USA eventually just like they did in the UK. Make no mistake about it the liberals are trying to make the USA as much like the UK as possible.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:29:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".


This........this is not animal farm
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:31:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Active duty police officers shouldn't need more than the 7 rounds, because by liberal logic there will be no criminals with more than 7 rounds in their guns.

Look, enjoy your firearms rights while you can police officers, because if you think the liberals are big fans of LEO you're wrong. They'll disarm police officers in the USA eventually just like they did in the UK. Make no mistake about it the liberals are trying to make the USA as much like the UK as possible.


This and the police should be a better crack shot to go after criminals who shoot crack.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:31:44 AM EDT
This was posted in one of the 9 vs 45 arguments, but it pertains to this subject, and what happened here could also happen to a civilian. Officer dumped all but three rounds out of a .45 Glock 21 using Gold Dot ammo, and his head shot finally stopped the crazy guy. Thing is, the last three rounds were out of the last of three 13 round MAGAZINES that he had used. Follow the link and read the article. Cuomo should have read it also, but this is all about control of the populace, not gun control any way, so he would not care.
Sorry officers, what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and when everybody sees just how criminal the NY .gov. is, maybe they will do something about it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:33:09 AM EDT
NO.

NONO.

NONONO.

this kind of thinking is so pervasive in the north east. it is part of the underlying problem.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:35:48 AM EDT
If the government moves to ban, it should apply ALL across the board. To the military, to our police and the President's secret service. Same fees/tax, same restrictions -- all applies to every single one.

For those of you naysayers to this idea, piss off. I'm no longer going to agree with ANY exemptions. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:37:24 AM EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/ny-gun-control-laws-anger-police-retired_n_2495417.html

NY Gun Control Laws Anger Retired Police Who Believe They Should Be Exempted From Some Restrictions

“As a law enforcement officer for over 20 years, I understand the importance of instituting a new policy on mandating the limits of bullets that a regular citizen can possess, but as a matter of fact
the bad guys are not going to follow this law,” said Norman Seabrook, president of the correction officers union, the city’s second largest.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:42:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 15jonshoot:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/ny-gun-control-laws-anger-police-retired_n_2495417.html

NY Gun Control Laws Anger Retired Police Who Believe They Should Be Exempted From Some Restrictions

“As a law enforcement officer for over 20 years, I understand the importance of instituting a new policy on mandating the limits of bullets that a regular citizen can possess, but as a matter of fact
the bad guys are not going to follow this law,” said Norman Seabrook, president of the correction officers union, the city’s second largest.


"REGULAR CITIZEN," Screw his elitist mentality. He is NOT special, he is not more valuable to society, his family does not value him more then others, he has no more worth to society in general then any other law abiding citizen who eats, sleeps, goes to work, and provides for their family.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:46:10 AM EDT
Not only should retired LEO's follow the same law that we must follow but on duty LEO's should as well.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:47:54 AM EDT
14th amendment equal protection clause
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:48:14 AM EDT
A retired police officer is a citizen. There should be NO exception.

I am afraid the democrats will make a "concession" and use these retired elitists for this purpose.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:48:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By limaxray:
Originally Posted By Indyryder3x:
but what I'm saying is being retired makes them one of "us". So as one of "us" they are at an extreme disadvantage and its a liability to their own personal and our public safety.

again, if all people are equal, then all people should be at the same level concerning personal safety, While fighting for their ability to be exempt, they are in fact indirectly fighting for yours.

Just keep pressure on your state reps that there is no distinction do to past performance and accountability of an LE vs a responsible civilian who is also serving same role as being overall aware of surroundings and whats going on at all times.


The cops are NOT fighting indirectly for your rights.

They are fighting for THEIR rights and want the "citizens" to be disarmed. The FOP and top LEOs in NY have outright said they think they're more equal than others.

You're giving their fight some kind of altruistic motives. You would be wrong.


LimaXray has got it right , they think they are " more " equal ( if you can believe that ) .
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:56:18 AM EDT
Their argument is - if I was able to carry that magazine yesterday (before I retired), why can't I carry it today?
Following that logic - if the "common man" was able to carry that magazine on January 14, why can't I carry it today?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:10:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 10:11:20 AM EDT by MDguy]
Welcome to the party pal! Simply put, if citizens cannot have hicaps nor can officers. SWAT has one year to sell their weapons to an individual or entity out of state. They can just carry benelli shotguns now....WITHOUT THE PISTOL GRIP. As for retired LEO, they should only be able to carry what a NYC resident has. If they want more, move out of the state. I expect NYC to order 7 round mags for all their weapons.

Originally Posted By 15jonshoot:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/17/ny-gun-control-laws-anger-police-retired_n_2495417.html

NY Gun Control Laws Anger Retired Police Who Believe They Should Be Exempted From Some Restrictions

“As a law enforcement officer for over 20 years, I understand the importance of instituting a new policy on mandating the limits of bullets that a regular citizen can possess, but as a matter of fact
the bad guys are not going to follow this law,” said Norman Seabrook, president of the correction officers union, the city’s second largest.


Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:12:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".



I am retired .mil.................I get no exemption.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:13:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Funny how so many here want these retired cops guarding schools.


Then you aren't retired anymore. You are back on the job. Just like an Arson Investigator or Bailiff.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:28:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".

+1
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:37:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rangermonroe:
No.

They are a civilian just like I am, despite my veteran status. The idea that someone's job should allow him special perks and privileges flys in the face of "all men are created equal".



FIRST POST NAILS IT! NO in no way are they different than you or me they are not the military.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:42:25 AM EDT
First reply nails it.

No special privileges.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 10:43:48 AM EDT
No one gets anything special.
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