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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/17/2005 10:38:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 10:42:42 AM EDT by dugedug]

LONDON — A Brazilian shot to death a day after botched bombings in London had walked casually onto a train before being gunned down by undercover officers, according to leaked footage that appeared to contradict earlier police reports that said the man disobeyed police orders.

Jean Charles de Menezes (search), a 27-year-old electrician, was shot eight times last month in front of terrified commuters on a subway train, after undercover police tailed him from a house under surveillance.

Police first said the shooting was related to the failed bombings on the London transit system July 21 — two weeks after four suspected suicide bombers blew themselves up in three Underground stations and aboard one double-decker bus.

Sir Ian Blair (search), the Metropolitan Police commissioner, called the death regrettable," but said it appeared "the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

Citing security footage, a British television station reported Tuesday that Menezes entered the Stockwell subway station at a normal walking pace, stopping to pick up a newspaper before boarding a train and taking a seat.

The ITV News broadcast, citing an investigation report into the shooting, also said Menezes was wearing a light denim jacket when he was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.

Witness reports described a terrifying scene of the man — wearing a bulky jacket on a warm July day — running through the train station, being tackled by a group of undercover police officers, then being shot several times at close range.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (search), which is investigating the shooting, refused Wednesday to comment on the veracity of the documents cited by ITV News.

A police spokeswoman also refused to explain what Blair meant when he said it appeared Menezes disobeyed orders. She noted, however, that police never said Menezes had tried to vault the barriers at the Underground station or tried to run from police.

Lawyer Harriet Wistrich, acting for the Brazilian's family, said police had no reason to suspect Menezes was a bomber.

"He was not carrying a rucksack. He simply had a denim jacket," Wistrich told British Broadcasting Corp. TV. "Was it necessary to shoot him dead as opposed to trying to confront him at an earlier stage? There was no indication he was about to blow himself up at all."

ITV News said that, according to the IPCC report, a member of the team that tailed Menezes into the subway train said he heard shouting including the word "police" before turning to face the Brazilian.

"He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the ... officers ... I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side," the unidentified officer was quoted as saying.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting. ... I then heard a gun shot very close to my left ear and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage."

A man sitting opposite Menezes saw a man boarding and firing his first shot from a handgun at the Brazilian's head from 12 inches away, according to the report obtained by ITV.

The report also said that, while Menezes was shot eight times, three other bullets were fired but missed.





Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:42:24 AM EDT
Remember early on, I questioned the fact, was this the right guy the police pounced on?
Here is the same blurb from the BBC:
=====================================================================
BBC NEWS
Tube shooting family inquiry call
The family of a man mistakenly killed by police hunting bombing suspects are calling for a public inquiry.

They say those responsible should be jailed for life, and their lawyer has called for the Met chief to resign.

It comes after leaked documents contradicted previous accounts of the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell Tube station on 22 July.

Investigation papers, leaked to ITV, suggest the Brazilian was restrained before being shot eight times.

The leaked documents appear to be from the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) inquiry into the shooting.

It would not comment on the leak, but said it would be meeting the family's solicitor on Thursday to update her.

Forceful tactics

Mr Menezes' family want the suspension of the "shoot-to-kill" policy and their lawyer has called for Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair to resign.

Sir Ian has described the policy on tackling suspected suicide bombers as a "shoot to kill in order to protect policy", insisting that less forceful tactics could still allow a terrorist to detonate their explosives.

We are carrying out a professional, thorough and impartial investigation into the shooting of Mr de Menezes
IPCC statement

They contradict initial eyewitness reports that suggested Mr de Menezes hurdled a barrier at Stockwell tube station and was wearing a padded jacket that could have concealed a bomb.

The leaked documents now suggest the Brazilian had walked into Stockwell Tube station, picked up a free newspaper, walked through ticket barriers, started to run when he saw a train arriving and was sitting down in a train when he was shot.

Scotland Yard had said on the day of the shooting - 24 hours after the 21 July failed attacks - that "his clothing and his behaviour at the station added to their suspicions".

Despite eyewitness reports that the suspect had worn a large winter-style coat, the version of events in the leaked documents suggested he had in fact worn a denim jacket.

A statement from the Menezes family legal team accused the police of breaching their statutory duty by not immediately inviting the IPPC to start its inquiry.

'Crucial' investigation

Scotland Yard said Sir Ian Blair - in the belief that Mr Menezes was linked to terrorism - had written to the Home Office permanent secretary on the morning of Mr Menezes death to make sure the terrorist investigation took precedence over any IPCC investigation.

But later the same day the Metropolitan Police agreed to hand over the shooting investigation to the IPCC, with their officers taking over on the following Monday.

Mr de Menezes' cousin Allessandro Pereira said: "Jean was an innocent man who was shot in cold blood. We now know that he wasn't wearing a bulky jacket, that he wasn't acting suspiciously or that he was told to stop by the police.

"He was being restrained when he was shot and killed.

"My family deserve the full truth about his murder. The truth cannot be hidden any longer. It has to be made public."

He told the London Evening Standard: "The officers who have done this have to be sent to jail for life because it's murder and the people who gave them the order to shoot must be punished."

In a statement, the IPCC said it does not know where the documents came from and that its priority was to keep Mr de Menezes family informed.

The family's lawyer Harriet Wistrich said they wanted to know why misleading reports had been allowed to circulate.

Key questions

"Clearly we now know that Jean Charles was doing absolutely nothing to arouse any suspicion, he was just unfortunate to be living in a block of flats that was under surveillance and to look slightly brown skinned."

Ms Wistrich said it also suggested the information given to the pathologist who carried out the post-mortem examination on Mr de Menezes was incorrect.

The legal team's statement demanded answers to 12 key questions, including how police made themselves known to the victim, and why Mr Menezes family in London were placed in a hotel room without access to telephones.

The home secretary must now use his powers to order a full judicial inquiry into the killing
Asad Rehman
Justice4Jean

They also asked why the pathologist at the post mortem on 27 July was told: "[Mr Menezes] was followed into Stockwell Tube Station where he vaulted over the ticket barrier. He ran downstairs and onto a Tube train where it appears that he stumbled. The officers then immobilised him and a number of shots were fired."

Asad Rehman, spokesman for the Justice4Jean Family Campaign said: "The overwhelming majority of the people of London join us in believing that there can be no alternative but the immediate suspension of the shoot-to-kill policy before another innocent Londoner becomes its victim.

"The home secretary must now use his powers to order a full judicial inquiry into the killing."

Meanwhile, speaking to the Evening Standard before the disclosure of the leaked details, Home Secretary Charles Clarke said the Met had operated "highly professionally" when faced with the threat of suicide bombers.

Scotland Yard and the Home Office have so far said it would be inappropriate to comment.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/4159310.stm

Published: 2005/08/17 17:28:35 GMT

© BBC MMV
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:42:33 AM EDT
[Full Metal Jacket mode on] Anyone who runs is a terrorist. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined terrorist. [/Full Metal Jacket mode off}
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:47:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
[Full Metal Jacket mode on] Anyone who runs is a terrorist. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined terrorist. [/Full Metal Jacket mode off}




Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:54:45 AM EDT
Well, if that was an accurate description of what happen, I would have no problems convicting the police officers involved of murder.



Vulcan94
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:05:33 AM EDT
So in a time of terror attacks and heightened security some asshole jumps the turnstiles and tries to run from cops. The cops are armed to the teeth and have been briefed 50 times about dark skinned suicide bombers trying to kill fellow brits on the subway. The dark skinned asshole fights with the cops and tries to get up and run away, towards civilians, just like a suicide bomber would do. He gets drilled in the head for his trouble.

I do a lot of ragging on shitty cops and shitty police procedures. I have a dislike for the JBT form of law enforcement to say the least. That being said, I do not hide my hands, make sudden moves, duck down after pulling over, jump out of the car to give the cop a piece of my mind or run screaming "allah akbar" into a crowd when they try and stop me. You do stupid shit while somebody has a gun pointed at you and a worse case going thru their mind and you are going to get shot.

Next time a guy with a submachinegun says STOP!!!!!!!!! I bet he will stop a lot quicker.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:17:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lion_Dog:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
[Full Metal Jacket mode on] Anyone who runs is a terrorist. Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined terrorist. [/Full Metal Jacket mode off}









That's sigline material right there!

Ben
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:18:41 AM EDT

Bummer.


Can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. It's too bad and a tragic mistake, but they still did the right thing, IMO.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:19:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
So in a time of terror attacks and heightened security some asshole jumps the turnstiles and tries to run from cops. The cops are armed to the teeth and have been briefed 50 times about dark skinned suicide bombers trying to kill fellow brits on the subway. The dark skinned asshole fights with the cops and tries to get up and run away, towards civilians, just like a suicide bomber would do. He gets drilled in the head for his trouble.




Did you read the same story I just read?

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 11:43:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
So in a time of terror attacks and heightened security some asshole jumps the turnstiles and tries to run from cops. The cops are armed to the teeth and have been briefed 50 times about dark skinned suicide bombers trying to kill fellow brits on the subway. The dark skinned asshole fights with the cops and tries to get up and run away, towards civilians, just like a suicide bomber would do. He gets drilled in the head for his trouble.


I realize reading comprehension is not required at Arfcom. The report said he did NOT jump the turnstiles. Nor did he wear a heavy winter coat. Nor did he run from the police. He acted like other passengers at the tube station and even stopped to get a free newspaper. Previous statements by the police were lies and spin to cover their ineptitude.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:01:15 PM EDT
Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC

Independant? Why does this commission sound like some lefty bullshit group? If they had any truthful information worth a shit, they would have presented it to a prosecutor. Instead, they "leak" it to the media.

I bet you believe the "Weekly World News" is real don't you.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:35:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC

Independant? Why does this commission sound like some lefty bullshit group? If they had any truthful information worth a shit, they would have presented it to a prosecutor. Instead, they "leak" it to the media.

I bet you believe the "Weekly World News" is real don't you.



"Citing security footage"
And I suppose you don't believe anything you see. Read the article again gomer.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 1:54:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
So in a time of terror attacks and heightened security some asshole jumps the turnstiles and tries to run from cops. The cops are armed to the teeth and have been briefed 50 times about dark skinned suicide bombers trying to kill fellow brits on the subway. The dark skinned asshole fights with the cops and tries to get up and run away, towards civilians, just like a suicide bomber would do. He gets drilled in the head for his trouble.

I do a lot of ragging on shitty cops and shitty police procedures. I have a dislike for the JBT form of law enforcement to say the least. That being said, I do not hide my hands, make sudden moves, duck down after pulling over, jump out of the car to give the cop a piece of my mind or run screaming "allah akbar" into a crowd when they try and stop me. You do stupid shit while somebody has a gun pointed at you and a worse case going thru their mind and you are going to get shot.


Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:26:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 2:27:57 PM EDT by Manic_Moran]

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC

Independant? Why does this commission sound like some lefty bullshit group? If they had any truthful information worth a shit, they would have presented it to a prosecutor. Instead, they "leak" it to the media.




It's about as independent a body as you will ever find. It was created by an act of parliament so is government funded, consists of civil servants, not politicians, and the head honcho is responsible solely to the Queen. Not the Chief of Police. Not the Prime Minister. Nobody except Her Royal Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second. That's about as independent as you can get.

NTM
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