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Posted: 6/15/2016 7:01:12 PM EDT
I need a new HVAC - 4 ton split system.

Current system is 20 years old, installed with the house. In getting quotes, one of my guys says he will reuse the existing lineset.

The previous system is R22, the new will be R410 of course.

Does this matter?
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:17:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2016 8:25:10 PM EDT by billhw1]
Bump...

Not a HVAC guy but I would replace the lines. Different oils etc.. I'm not certain if a good nitrogen purge and 500 micron vacuum would clean the old oils.

The HVAC guys will be along soon... Looking forward to their response and learning something.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:35:41 PM EDT
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:36:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.
View Quote



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:44:09 PM EDT
I worked in a townhouse that the line set was built into a load bearing wall and like 70 feet long.

the labor to remove it would have been rediculous.

it was Re used.

I say it's fine but if it is easy to get to and my house I'm replacing It
Link Posted: 6/15/2016 8:50:39 PM EDT
If they are the right size they can be reused.

Not an HVAC guy but I work in the apartment industry and we are dealing with this industry wide across the country.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 10:53:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2016 10:56:01 AM EDT by TexasSmooth]
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?

If it is rather easy and practical to do so, sure, go ahead and replace it. Depending on if you are increasing/decreasing sizes, the diameters of the lineset (especially the suction line) may change. Typically, the liquid line (the smaller one) is usually 3/8", but the larger (suction) line will vary depending on the size of the unit. Sometimes I've seen where contractors who are re-using the lineset have to match up the new units size to the old suction line and there's a 1/8" difference. There's usually no harm in this, but anything more than 1/8" can be looking for trouble to start down the road.

Also what I mean by "easy", is the lineset on the outside of the exterior wall? When it goes into the home, would it be easy to gain access to braze the joint where the lines would meet? For my own house, the lineset is actually inside the wall so I'll be re-using that thing for quite a while.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 11:03:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2016 11:15:33 AM EDT by ILoveGauge]
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?



What size are your current lines?


Link Posted: 6/16/2016 11:30:56 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?


When the new system fails early and the warranty is voided you can save again.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 1:36:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ILoveGauge:



What size are your current lines?


http://i63.tinypic.com/ie1kxc.jpg
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Originally Posted By ILoveGauge:
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?



What size are your current lines?


http://i63.tinypic.com/ie1kxc.jpg

That's a good rough guide, however each manufacturer has different specs for their units. OP needs to use the specs for the new unit he wants and compare to existing lineset.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 5:25:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:

That's a good rough guide, however each manufacturer has different specs for their units. OP needs to use the specs for the new unit he wants and compare to existing lineset.
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Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By ILoveGauge:
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?



What size are your current lines?


http://i63.tinypic.com/ie1kxc.jpg

That's a good rough guide, however each manufacturer has different specs for their units. OP needs to use the specs for the new unit he wants and compare to existing lineset.

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 8:27:33 PM EDT
Replace. If your spending that kind of money a lineset is cheap. Especially since your getting a new A coil and condensing unit. Be smart and stop trying to cut corners.
Link Posted: 6/16/2016 8:54:56 PM EDT
it depends, what size do you have and what brand, model are you installing? go by the manufactures specs.

you must maintain a certain velocity in order to have proper oil return to the compress or your bearings in the compressor will run dry
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 9:21:21 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.
View Quote

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 1:28:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.
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Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 8:48:24 PM EDT
Being in the HVAC trade if it was my house I would replace the line set. It is cheap insurance

R22 and R410A oils are different, and when R22(mineral) oil mixes with the R410A(POE) oil the oil become acidic and gums up. So 2 things start happening the acid starts eating away at the compressor windings, and you dont get the proper lube to the compressor.

So if you would like to replace a compressor in a few years reuse the lineset.
Link Posted: 6/17/2016 10:24:33 PM EDT
So RX-11 doesn't do what it says?
Link Posted: 6/19/2016 2:33:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.

The RX-11 flush needs to be completely evacuated from the lineset before any sort of new refrigerant is added.
Link Posted: 6/19/2016 4:02:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.


You just dump that shit in the yard. I have plenty of places I need roundup
Link Posted: 6/19/2016 8:09:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:


You just dump that shit in the yard. I have plenty of places I need roundup
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Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:

And then figure out what he is going to do with the contaminated solvent.

Uh, if there's some kind of 'contaminated solvent' in the lineset once you get the system installed and filled with refrigerant, you've got bigger problems coming than properly sizing the lineset.


The contaminated solvent will be in the bucket you pumped it into when cleaning the lineset.


You just dump that shit in the yard. I have plenty of places I need roundup


YOU may get away tith that.

Folks that have a license, insurance, etc. may not be so cavalier.
Link Posted: 6/19/2016 10:34:36 PM EDT
I have personally watched more licensed pros vent R22 into the air than you'd imagine. I cannot imagine a little solvent would be any different.
Link Posted: 6/19/2016 10:39:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2016 8:06:33 AM EDT by FALARAK]
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:


When the new system fails early and the warranty is voided you can save again.
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Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By brickeyee:
Replace the lines.
The process to clean them out for the different lubricant is not worth the time., effort, or chance.



What if it is 80 feet of line and two stories, and down a brick wall?


When the new system fails early and the warranty is voided you can save again.


Which manufacturer voids the warranty because a lineset was reused? Not Trane, not American standard, not carrier, not Goodman. So far, they have guidance to the installer on sizing and purging from what I have found.

Three quotes so far in the past three days, all from highly recommended shops, and thus far all have stated they will reuse the lineset. One told me nitrogen purge. One said solvent then nitrogen. The other said he purges with a puron flush.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 1:01:01 AM EDT
Unless it is a HUGE pain in the ass, my shop would recommend changing the line set, and if it were my house I would too.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 12:06:00 PM EDT
Which manufacturer voids the warranty because a lineset was reused?
View Quote


None automatically.
If they decide to inspect and find it was not cleaned properly they can.
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 3:40:01 PM EDT
I'm looking at replacing my unit on a two story house. A/C guy insists on using new lines, stating there could be any number of things wrong
with the old ones. That thought, along with the things guys pointed out
above make me think he is right.

He will run the lines up the wall to the attic through a fake down spout.
I'm not over joyed about that but it will look better than a line set
running up to the attic.


Link Posted: 6/20/2016 8:19:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 8:51:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Replace the lineset, it's the right thing to do.

I'm not going to type out a long drawn out response about why RX11 flush is snake oil, buts it's pretty much snake oil unless you use a few gallons of it, in which case you just bought a new lineset twice over.

What's 75' of lineset up a wall going to add to the job? $500-$750 to a $10k job?

This is not the area where you want to pinch pennies.
View Quote

If I remember right, most techs these days use a nitrogen purge and subsequently pull vacuum to evacuate the lines instead of that RX11 crap. Is that about right for reusing a lineset?
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 9:09:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/20/2016 9:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2016 9:29:16 PM EDT by billhw1]
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Originally Posted By ZW17:


Now manufacturers are saying that the mixing of oils in small quantities doesn't hurt anything.

Who knows? I have always just replaced the lineset.


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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By Texas smooth:
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Replace the leanest, it's the right thing to do.

I'm not going to type out a long drawn out response about why RX11 flush is snake oil, buts it's pretty much snake oil unless you use a few gallons of it, in which case you just bought a new leanest twice over.

What's 75' of lineset up a wall going to add to the job? $500-$750 to a $10k job?

This is not the area where you want to pinch pennies.

If I remember right, most techs these days use a nitrogen purge and subsequently pull vacuum to evacuate the lines instead of that RX11 crap. Is that about right for reusing a lineset?


Now manufacturers are saying that the mixing of oils in small quantities doesn't hurt anything.

Who knows? I have always just replaced the lineset.




NVM. Stupid question
Link Posted: 6/21/2016 3:59:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ZW17:


Now manufacturers are saying that the mixing of oils in small quantities doesn't hurt anything.

Who knows? I have always just replaced the lineset.




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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By TexasSmooth:
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Replace the lineset, it's the right thing to do.

I'm not going to type out a long drawn out response about why RX11 flush is snake oil, buts it's pretty much snake oil unless you use a few gallons of it, in which case you just bought a new lineset twice over.

What's 75' of lineset up a wall going to add to the job? $500-$750 to a $10k job?

This is not the area where you want to pinch pennies.

If I remember right, most techs these days use a nitrogen purge and subsequently pull vacuum to evacuate the lines instead of that RX11 crap. Is that about right for reusing a lineset?


Now manufacturers are saying that the mixing of oils in small quantities doesn't hurt anything.

Who knows? I have always just replaced the lineset.






Short of something in writing not worth it.

When they have to pay $$ watch what they say.
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