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Posted: 11/15/2013 4:07:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2013 3:43:25 PM EDT by mjohn3006]
I wanted a KSG so bad. I actually like Kel Tec. I carry a P3AT frequently that has never failed me. I also love my Sub 2000.
When the KSG was announced I wanted one so bad. $700???? ok, I'll suck it up. I want one.
Cheapest I can find one is $1200, and all I hear is problems problems problems.
I work at one of the most popular ranges in the area and see all the cool stuff. I saw 7 Tavors the first week they came out.  I've seen 2 KSG's.

So then I found this. $300 and I converted the 870 I already had to a 28.5" bullpup.

Does it have two tubes that can switch back and fourth? No
Does it have everything else? Yes
Is it a 870 so I know the gun will not fail? Yes

I like it. AR grip I'll probably switch to a magpul. It also has an AR safety.



UPDATE Range Report
So it was a very busy day at the range and I did not get long to shoot, just threw 5 regular slugs and 5 agula mini slugs down range.

The mini slugs don't cycle properly, even without the stock. So that I expected.
The normal 2 3/4 slugs I shot cycled fine.

The good:
Very comfortable and fun to shoot
Recoil was nice, the thick butt pad absorbed well and it was easy to pump and get back on target
No failures with normal ammo, although it was only 5 rounds.
It got a lot of interest from other shooters

The bad:
The pump has a pinch point against the frame. If I put the rail on the pump and put an AVG on it, it would keep my hand away from the pinch point.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:09:52 AM EDT
Very interesting setup. I haven't seen anything like that before, even on the interwebz, is the stock a commercially made one?
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:11:41 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ShotTherapy_JR:
Very interesting setup. I haven't seen anything like that before, even on the interwebz, is the stock a commercially made one?
View Quote


Yep. Made by a company in Kentucky. 98% made in the USA according to them.  I bought it from Buds. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64_991/products_id/411554177/Shotguns/Remington/Pump+Action+Shotguns
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:12:01 AM EDT
Sort of dupe?
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:12:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 4:17:41 AM EDT by waterglass]
Would a +3 magazine tube fit?

you know a standard tube extension for a 20" barreled gun.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:15:08 AM EDT
When the money allows I plan to get one of these.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:17:02 AM EDT
that's cool!
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:18:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 4:19:01 AM EDT by 57Strat]
This comment from a Bud's customer review doesn't sound too good....


"I am still on the fence about the trigger and trigger mechanism of this kit. The new trigger is connected to the old trigger by a metal rod. This rod is not secured to the the old trigger. It sits loosely inside the old trigger guard and rest against the trigger. This can cause a potential problem. If you have taken a dynamic shooting class or have had any military or law enforcement weapons training then you know there may be times when you will shoot at odd angles such as on your back or side. Since the rod in the kit is not secure, it may not properly operate at certain angles. I found that if that if the gun is fully on its side such as when you are shooting on your back or side under a table, car, obstruction etc then the trigger will not function. The reason being is that since the rod sits loosely, it will slide out of the trigger guard. I know that this may seem crazy to some and other will never find themselves in that kind of shooting position; however, others will and should be able to depend on there gun to operate every time in every situation. "
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:20:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:


Yep. Made by a company in Kentucky. 98% made in the USA according to them.  I bought it from Buds. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64_991/products_id/411554177/Shotguns/Remington/Pump+Action+Shotguns
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Originally Posted By ShotTherapy_JR:
Very interesting setup. I haven't seen anything like that before, even on the interwebz, is the stock a commercially made one?


Yep. Made by a company in Kentucky. 98% made in the USA according to them.  I bought it from Buds. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64_991/products_id/411554177/Shotguns/Remington/Pump+Action+Shotguns


Oh no, kiss you identity goodbye!
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:20:57 AM EDT
How is the safety mechanism set up? Is the secondary trigger just blocked from activating the transfer bar/rod leaving the original safety off at all times?

Looks like fun though!
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:22:19 AM EDT
The trigger is always the Achilles heal of bullpups.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:24:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By smokiexd45:
How is the safety mechanism set up? Is the secondary trigger just blocked from activating the transfer bar/rod leaving the original safety off at all times?

Looks like fun though!
View Quote


Yes. That
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:25:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Would a +3 magazine tube fit?

you know a standard tube extension for a 20" barreled gun.
View Quote


Other reviews say yes. nothing blocks the tub/barrel from being longer. Extension tubs should fit...but, they will make it longer.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:26:26 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
This comment from a Bud's customer review doesn't sound too good....


"I am still on the fence about the trigger and trigger mechanism of this kit. The new trigger is connected to the old trigger by a metal rod. This rod is not secured to the the old trigger. It sits loosely inside the old trigger guard and rest against the trigger. This can cause a potential problem. If you have taken a dynamic shooting class or have had any military or law enforcement weapons training then you know there may be times when you will shoot at odd angles such as on your back or side. Since the rod in the kit is not secure, it may not properly operate at certain angles. I found that if that if the gun is fully on its side such as when you are shooting on your back or side under a table, car, obstruction etc then the trigger will not function. The reason being is that since the rod sits loosely, it will slide out of the trigger guard. I know that this may seem crazy to some and other will never find themselves in that kind of shooting position; however, others will and should be able to depend on there gun to operate every time in every situation. "
View Quote



Yes. I read that. I intend to test it. Also, looking at it, I see no reason the transfer bar could not be secured to the trigger. So if it is an issue, I will play with it.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:27:37 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:


Other reviews say yes. nothing blocks the tub/barrel from being longer. Extension tubs should fit...but, they will make it longer.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
Would a +3 magazine tube fit?

you know a standard tube extension for a 20" barreled gun.


Other reviews say yes. nothing blocks the tub/barrel from being longer. Extension tubs should fit...but, they will make it longer.


It would still be shorter than an M-4 with the stock extended.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:28:41 AM EDT
Kind of ugly looking.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:31:02 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KTMsx:
Kind of ugly looking.
View Quote


Eye of the beer holder I guess.(yes I know the real expression)

I think it it looks badass.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:33:10 AM EDT
Can a "Lefty" like me shoot it?
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:33:54 AM EDT
will this be the thread you do the review on? If so I am goona subscribe.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:34:30 AM EDT
OP what are the prospects of mounting an ATI screw on side saddle?
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:44:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Beardog86:
Can a "Lefty" like me shoot it?
View Quote


Negative. The manufacturer said it is not lefty friendly. Which sucks but I doubt my lefty wife would want to shoot it anyway.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:45:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waterglass:
will this be the thread you do the review on? If so I am goona subscribe.
View Quote


Yes I will update with range report. I will shoot it next Sunday.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:46:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fatcat4620:
OP what are the prospects of mounting an ATI screw on side saddle?
View Quote


The plastic is thick and sturdy. If you wanted to drill some extra holes for stuff I don't see why that would be a problem.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:46:26 AM EDT
I picked one of the kits up at the Rockcastle ProAm this year from the owner of the company. Really nice guy with a really well thought out product. He talked to me a little about all the local/state/government agencies that were interested in testing the design.

I put the kit together with my smooth bore slug barrel and an 8 shot tube I had laying around, they stick out of the kit about an inch. I’ll probably switch to a 18.5 barrel and 7 shot tube in the near future. It’s a fun gun to shoot and with the addition of a vertical fore grip, red dot and light makes a mighty fine under the bed gun. I noticed that with the receiver back towards your shoulder most of the weight of the gun is behind your trigger hand making the gun really easy to maneuver in tight quarters.

I used it as a pickup gun at one of the local 3 gun matches. 25 shooters each putting 8 rounds down range with it with no issues. I did have a couple comments that the trigger was stiff, which is true, but no more stiff than most shotguns. Everyone liked how “handy” it was and that its controls mimicked those of an AR.

Best of all it’s about the same size as the sbs I wanted to build but I didn’t have to wait a year for the paperwork and don’t have to ask permission to cross state lines…
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:52:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 4:58:02 AM EDT by Rincon_11]
Co-Worker was telling me about them yesterday.  Said he was looking for a beater 870 for this set-up.  I told him just get one of those Hawk, 870 clones.  $200 brand new and supposed to be true to detail.  Add $300 for the stock and that's a pretty sweet set-up for $500.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:54:43 AM EDT
Is it a 870 so I know the gun will not fail? Yes
View Quote


That right there is worth it.

KelTec..if not if, but when..

Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:57:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:57:50 AM EDT
Neat.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:59:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 5:05:39 AM EDT by FALARAK]
Low capacity, and much slower to reload.  Sounds great for tactical and home defense.  Ok - it appears you can get a 7 or 8 capacity.  I will only ding it for obstructed loading port then.

This is another "looks cool" product that will probably sell well due to how many people that would buy something like a slide-fire.

Doesn't work well at all for a lefty like me, either.

Serious usability?  

Link Posted: 11/15/2013 4:59:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:02:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HardShell:

Funny, because I've owned/used/carried more KT products over the years than most folks who don't work for them and have yet to have one fail.

Maybe I am just lucky...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HardShell:
Originally Posted By Chris_C:
Is it a 870 so I know the gun will not fail? Yes


That right there is worth it.

KelTec..if not if, but when..


Funny, because I've owned/used/carried more KT products over the years than most folks who don't work for them and have yet to have one fail.

Maybe I am just lucky...



I have no issues with any KT product I have owned, and I currently own 3, have owned 4.
But the KSG just keeps getting problem after problem reviewed.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:04:21 AM EDT
interesting
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:04:22 AM EDT
Another plus is no brass to the arm like I've seen peopple complain about on videos and forum reviews. Some of them put tape or some protector in that area and say it's no big deal
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:05:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:


I wanted a KSG so bad. I actually like Kel Tec. I carry a P3AT frequently that has never failed me. I also love my Sub 2000.

When the KSG was announced I wanted one so bad. $700???? ok, I'll suck it up. I want one.

Cheapest I can find one is $1200, and all I hear is problems problems problems.

I work at one of the most popular ranges in the area and see all the cool stuff. I saw 7 Tavors the first week they came out.  I've seen 2 KSG's.



So then I found this. $300 and I converted the 870 I already had to a 28.5" bullpup.



Does it have two tubes that can switch back and fourth? No

Does it have everything else? Yes

Is it a 870 so I know the gun will not fail? Yes



I like it. AR grip I'll probably switch to a magpul. It also has an AR safety.



http://nullbits.foxxz.net/albums/gun/bullpup_12ga.jpg
View Quote
OP, you're being modest.



You work at "THE RANGE".



 
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:05:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FALARAK:
Low capacity, and much slower to reload.  Sounds great for tactical and home defense.

This is another "looks cool" product that will probably sell well due to how many people that would buy something like a slide-fire.

Serious usability?  

http://img.pandawhale.com/39215-grumpy-cat-no-Vyfj.jpeg
View Quote


Low capacity? That is every shotgun, so I am not sure how you can make that argument.

Reviews I read said that once they got used to it, reloading was no more difficult than any other normal shotgun. A few even did 3 gun matches with them.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:09:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
This comment from a Bud's customer review doesn't sound too good....


"I am still on the fence about the trigger and trigger mechanism of this kit. The new trigger is connected to the old trigger by a metal rod. This rod is not secured to the the old trigger. It sits loosely inside the old trigger guard and rest against the trigger. This can cause a potential problem. If you have taken a dynamic shooting class or have had any military or law enforcement weapons training then you know there may be times when you will shoot at odd angles such as on your back or side. Since the rod in the kit is not secure, it may not properly operate at certain angles. I found that if that if the gun is fully on its side such as when you are shooting on your back or side under a table, car, obstruction etc then the trigger will not function. The reason being is that since the rod sits loosely, it will slide out of the trigger guard. I know that this may seem crazy to some and other will never find themselves in that kind of shooting position; however, others will and should be able to depend on there gun to operate every time in every situation. "
View Quote


Wonder what happens if you thump the butt on the ground with the safety off..
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:10:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:17:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 5:18:50 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:


Wonder what happens if you thump the butt on the ground with the safety off..
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
Originally Posted By 57Strat:
This comment from a Bud's customer review doesn't sound too good....


"I am still on the fence about the trigger and trigger mechanism of this kit. The new trigger is connected to the old trigger by a metal rod. This rod is not secured to the the old trigger. It sits loosely inside the old trigger guard and rest against the trigger. This can cause a potential problem. If you have taken a dynamic shooting class or have had any military or law enforcement weapons training then you know there may be times when you will shoot at odd angles such as on your back or side. Since the rod in the kit is not secure, it may not properly operate at certain angles. I found that if that if the gun is fully on its side such as when you are shooting on your back or side under a table, car, obstruction etc then the trigger will not function. The reason being is that since the rod sits loosely, it will slide out of the trigger guard. I know that this may seem crazy to some and other will never find themselves in that kind of shooting position; however, others will and should be able to depend on there gun to operate every time in every situation. "


Wonder what happens if you thump the butt on the ground with the safety off..


The trigger is a double trigger. Sort of Glock like. You have to put a finger on it to depress the "safety" trigger and the other trigger or it won;t move.

Since the trigger is attached to the transfer bar, striking to butt on the gun on the ground will do nothing, because the transfer bar is locked in place.

My guess is they built it, then realized that was a problem, and added the double trigger safety.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:21:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 5:23:28 AM EDT by 45-Longslide]
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:26:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Longslide:
Duperific!

IBTL

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1553311_Remington_870_bullpup_conversion.html

Well, sorta a dupe.  
View Quote


Since you never bought it and dont own it this isnt a dupe.  You posting a link vs OP buying this gun and postingnpics is WAY different.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:26:11 AM EDT


 
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:26:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Longslide:
Duperific!

IBTL

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1553311_Remington_870_bullpup_conversion.html

Well, sorta a dupe.  
View Quote


Meh. I actually have one and am reviewing it and following with a range report.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:26:55 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:


Yes I will update with range report. I will shoot it next Sunday.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Originally Posted By waterglass:
will this be the thread you do the review on? If so I am goona subscribe.


Yes I will update with range report. I will shoot it next Sunday.


tagscribe
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:32:29 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KPrice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mBQeird3as  
View Quote


Interesting. I don't see how the kit would cause FTE's the ejection port is wide open. We will see if I have that issue.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:36:28 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

The trigger is a double trigger. Sort of Glock like. You have to put a finger on it to depress the "safety" trigger and the other trigger or it won;t move.

Since the trigger is attached to the transfer bar, striking to butt on the gun on the ground will do nothing, because the transfer bar is locked in place.

My guess is they built it, then realized that was a problem, and added the double trigger safety.
View Quote


Heck, that's no bad thing.  It's the designs that just come straight off the paper without testing that really worry me.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:38:18 AM EDT
These 870 bullpup stocks are made by a retired state trooper that is a really good guy.  Two years ago at the Bullpup 3 gun shoot at Rockcastle, the Bullpup Unlimited 870 was the only one of three guns at the shotgun stage (Bullpup Unlimited 870, KSG, UTAS) that did not have issues.  The UTAS just plain broke apart and the KSG more or less had "operator errors" all day.

This is a great product in my opinion.

Dave R
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:40:57 AM EDT
How do you activate the slide release?
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 5:43:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wessono:
How do you activate the slide release?
View Quote


There is a button you can see in the pic below the back side of the ejection port. It presses the slide release of the gun.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 6:24:58 AM EDT
Hmm I have a 870 I was selling might do this instead.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 6:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2013 6:31:33 AM EDT by Howie_Phelterbush]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KPrice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mBQeird3as  
View Quote


made it to 1:08. slow and awkward to reload. the user needs to take a class or watch some videos on using a shotgun.

eta: watched the whole thing. I like the end. I think I was short stroking it. no fucking shit. everyone watching the video figured that out already.
Link Posted: 11/15/2013 6:31:06 AM EDT
The new trigger is connected to the old trigger by a metal rod. This rod is not secured to the the old trigger. It sits loosely inside the old trigger guard and rest against the trigger.
View Quote




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