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Posted: 9/6/2008 7:43:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2008 11:40:52 AM EDT by frater-in-telum]
Remember in 03 when a pizza delivery guy was killed by a bomb strapped around his neck? Well here is the video, watch the slow-mo at the end - you can see the guys face is completely blown off as he is falling over, all you see is bare skull. Gross.


P.S. I didn't even know about this, I read about it while sitting in a waiting room. How is this not more publicized?

Link:  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6a4_1184278789&adult_check=1


Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2008 7:53:56 AM EDT by out-a-ammo]
It was all over when it happened, that was years ago. It is in the news again because of new information.



Made hot: www.liveleak.com/view?i=6a4_1184278789&adult_check=1


Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:55:12 AM EDT
New info? What?
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:56:38 AM EDT
I thought a couple years ago they had arrested a couple people they thought were behind this...?

Bizarre ass case though....
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:57:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
I thought a couple years ago they had arrested a couple people they thought were behind this...?

Bizarre ass case though....


yeah....what more can be new?

Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:57:32 AM EDT
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:57:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2008 7:58:42 AM EDT by out-a-ammo]

Originally Posted By Emoto:
New info? What?


Just about one of them cutting a deal.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,416083,00.html



Link Posted: 9/6/2008 7:58:07 AM EDT
The bank that he was blown up at was where I did my banking when I lived in Erie.  Pretty freaky!
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:00:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:02:24 AM EDT
anybody know what kind of explosive was used? sad for this guy... can't imagine if he was in on it using real stuff instead of a fake.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:03:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


well crime scene guys seem to want to know exactly why someone died even though the COD just slapped them in the face
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:03:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


It was a crime..  Why the surprise?

Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:13:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Longboat:

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


It was a crime..  Why the surprise?



I didn't know they autopsied for very crime, is it to collect evidence?
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:45:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


It was a crime..  Why the surprise?



I didn't know they autopsied for very crime, is it to collect evidence?


Hell, lately they autopsy for any death it seems like.  But something like that, they were probably looking more for evidence of drug use, perhaps torture signs, abuse, etc.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 8:56:15 AM EDT
I remember that here on ARFCOM a while back just after it happened.  When someone here mentioned at least they should uncuffed him to let him try to save himself in some fashion, but being cuffed he was powerless.

I mailed the PD a letter to point this out and rebuke them.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:00:38 AM EDT
As sad as it is to say..  if they uncuffed him and let him run around...

You would have had a mobile bomb.  How can you maintain a safe perimeter if the bomb is moving?

Don't fault the PD for what they did.  Fault the bad person who put the bomb on the poor guy.  The PD did the best they could considering the circumstances.

If you think the guy could have removed the device, I can asure you he couldn't.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:03:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:07:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Longboat:
As sad as it is to say..  if they uncuffed him and let him run around...

You would have had a mobile bomb.  How can you maintain a safe perimeter if the bomb is moving?

Don't fault the PD for what they did.  Fault the bad person who put the bomb on the poor guy.  The PD did the best they could considering the circumstances.

If you think the guy could have removed the device, I can asure you he couldn't.


OK answer this:  had it been you, wouldn't you have said take these cuffs off and hand me some bolt cutters?

In these situations, as in most all, I tend to think of myself first.   The popo has as many 'malpractice' deaths as healthcare pros.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:32:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By junker46:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
As sad as it is to say..  if they uncuffed him and let him run around...

You would have had a mobile bomb.  How can you maintain a safe perimeter if the bomb is moving?

Don't fault the PD for what they did.  Fault the bad person who put the bomb on the poor guy.  The PD did the best they could considering the circumstances.

If you think the guy could have removed the device, I can asure you he couldn't.


OK answer this:  had it been you, wouldn't you have said take these cuffs off and hand me some bolt cutters?

In these situations, as in most all, I tend to think of myself first.   The popo has as many 'malpractice' deaths as healthcare pros.


Sadly, we follow Utilitarian ethics, meaning we do what causes "the greatest good for the greatest number of people."

Leaving him cuffed endangered just him, letting him loose could have endangered many more.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:40:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


I'm guessing you haven't spent much time in court.  If a murder trial would ever result from this incident all the defense would have to say is "How do you know he didn't die of a heart attack?"  "You did do an autopsy to determine he didn't die of a heart attack didn't you?"

Yeah, it seems plain as day to everyone what the cause of death was - until you introduce a defense attorney.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 9:40:45 AM EDT
Saw it several times on America's Most Wanted! Its a confusing case, From what I recall, he was lurned on a pizza delivery, bomb thrown around his neck, told to go rob a bank, and start a treasure hunt for the combo to the lock to get the bomb off his neck. It seemed like it was a web of some fucked up people involved. All I remeber was the suspects were ended up in frezzers dead, and just crazyness. I think when its all said and done will make for a good movie!

America's Most Wanted
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 10:28:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By junker46:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
As sad as it is to say..  if they uncuffed him and let him run around...

You would have had a mobile bomb.  How can you maintain a safe perimeter if the bomb is moving?

Don't fault the PD for what they did.  Fault the bad person who put the bomb on the poor guy.  The PD did the best they could considering the circumstances.

If you think the guy could have removed the device, I can asure you he couldn't.


OK answer this:  had it been you, wouldn't you have said take these cuffs off and hand me some bolt cutters?

In these situations, as in most all, I tend to think of myself first.   The popo has as many 'malpractice' deaths as healthcare pros.



As I said above he would have been unable to free himself, if his hands were free or not.

Bolt cutters would have done him no good.  The design of the device was not open to simple tools to remove it.

If it were me, I wouldn't have gone along with the ploy.  If a bomb were strapped on my body and I was told to accomplish an act that would put a massive spotlight on me, I doubt the person who put it on me want to get close enough to take it off.

Link Posted: 9/6/2008 11:38:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2008 11:45:34 AM EDT by rkbar15]
Wells the "victim" was likely involved in the screwy bank robbery scheme.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/04collar.html?ref=us

September 4, 2008

Key Part of Bank Robbery Lore Is False, Prosecutors Say

By SEAN D. HAMILL

ERIE, Pa. — In one of the most bizarre crimes in recent memory, a pizza deliveryman walked into a bank near here five years ago and gave a teller a note saying a bomb strapped to his neck and torso would detonate if he was not given money.

The man, Brian D. Wells, walked out with $8,702, got in his car and was stopped almost immediately by state police troopers. Minutes later, the bomb exploded, killing Mr. Wells.

Before he died, Mr. Wells, 46, told the troopers that he was an unwilling participant in the crime. He said a group of black men had abducted him as he was delivering two sausage-and-pepperoni pizzas and forced him to rob the bank by strapping the bomb on him.

Since that day, residents of the area have wondered whether Mr. Wells’s story was true or something he fabricated to cover up his involvement in the crime.

On Wednesday, the authorities made it clear that the story was a lie. They based their conclusion on information from Kenneth Barnes, 54, a former television repairman, who pleaded guilty on Wednesday to two counts — conspiracy to commit armed robbery, and using and carrying a destructive device during and in relation to a crime of violence. Mr. Barnes was seeking to avoid a life sentence by promising to testify against his only surviving co-defendant, Marjorie Diehl-Armstrong, 59, who is being held on a prior murder conviction but is currently deemed incompetent to stand trial in this case.

Mr. Barnes is facing a minimum 30-year sentence, but could see that cut substantially if he cooperates, which is appropriate given his minimal role in the bank robbery, his lawyer, Alison Scarpitti, said.

“This wasn’t his brainchild,” Ms. Scarpitti said. “From the beginning, he wanted everyone to know he never intended anyone to get hurt, including Brian.”

The Wells family — particularly Mr. Wells’s younger brother John, who maintains a Web site seeking to clear his brother’s name, brianwells.net — contends that Mr. Wells was forced into taking part.

But in federal court on Wednesday, Marshall J. Piccinini, the assistant United States attorney overseeing the case, laid out details of Mr. Wells’s direct involvement.

Much of it came from Mr. Barnes, who began talking to investigators three years ago and eventually told of planning meetings that were attended by all of those involved, including Mr. Wells.

Other witnesses not involved with the conspiracy confirmed to investigators many of Mr. Barnes’s accounts. The day before the robbery, one witness said, he saw Mr. Wells driving his car behind a fourth conspirator, William A. Rothstein, who died in 2004, and the others near Mr. Rothstein’s home. Mr. Barnes said they were leaving the last meeting planning the robbery.

Though prosecutors knew those details a year ago, they could not disclose them until now, Mary Beth Buchanan, the United States attorney for the Western District of Pennsylvania, said.

“The Wells family certainly has a much more complete story of what happened leading up to that day,” Ms. Buchanan said.

John Wells did not reply to telephone messages left for him Wednesday.

Link Posted: 9/6/2008 11:39:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 11:49:44 AM EDT
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 11:51:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Longboat:

If it were me, I wouldn't have gone along with the ploy.  If a bomb were strapped on my body and I was told to accomplish an act that would put a massive spotlight on me, I doubt the person who put it on me want to get close enough to take it off.




There is/are a number of ways to coerce you into doing that.  Or he may have been 'yoinked' inside, overwhelmed, and found himself with a strange device around his person.

The point I’m pressing is not that ‘you wouldn't have held that kind of job,' or 'would not delivered in that part of town.' At some point in a bewildering day you find yourself with your ass parked on the concrete in cuffs with a device around your neck.

What I'm asking you is this: what would you have done in that moment of truth?
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 11:59:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


It was a crime..  Why the surprise?



I didn't know they autopsied for very crime, is it to collect evidence?


Hell, lately they autopsy for any death it seems like.  But something like that, they were probably looking more for evidence of drug use, perhaps torture signs, abuse, etc.


When my 84 year old mom died at her home in Virginia, we had to have a Visiting Nurse attest to the circumstances to avoid an autopsy.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 12:11:03 PM EDT
Well, me personally..  I would have quietly prayed for my family.

I am not really sure what you would expect people to do?  

The reality behind this whole situation is that he had a device that was pretty basic in the bomb squad community but that information wasn't available until he was already dead.  The local squad was on the way but didn't get there before it went off.  Reality on the table, he was dead before the device went off.  Under current technology, the x-ray pulses needed to see what it was would have killed him anyways.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 1:01:08 PM EDT
  I picture some guy in a basement coal bin with a bare hanging incandescent light bulb leaning over a desk laughing like Skeletor
saying "Today its neck bombs...tomorrow I rule the world!"   Some people just have too much time on their hands.
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 1:03:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2008 1:03:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By frater-in-telum:

Originally Posted By Longboat:
I didn't really see it in the video, but I have seen the autopsy photos and he is not minus a face.  Actually there is only minor blast damage to his chest.


It must just be the video making it look that way then. Because when he is near the ground it looks a lot like a bare white skull, although I know his skull wouldn't be completely white.


They had to do an autopsy on him? Seems pretty clear what got him.


that's what I thought when I saw it too, that it blew his face off.  never seen the autopsy pics though.
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