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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/4/2005 8:25:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 8:30:49 AM EDT by FN-TPS]
Last week one of our many Border Activist posters, in his zeal to inform us all, of the evils of the third world culture of Mexico. Posted a thread describing an incident, that supposedly happened to a friend of his mother in law, while visiting a town on the U.S. Mexican border.

The Story, related to us as fact by the Border Activist poster, was about women visiting the border town, being Drugged, Raped and Beaten.

Many posters here felt that the story was a Urban Legend and said as much in the thread.

I myself was villified, called a DU troll and a Liberal, for suggesting that the Urban Legend in question, might have roots in Racist Propaganda. These attacks even extended to one ring leader of the Border Activist Clique here on AR15.com, calling for my banning. In the intrest of purify the site of Liberal trolls, who were chasing away the old members!

Well...For those of you who thought the Border Rape Story was an Urban Legend and who wondered about it's origins...It turns out you were right.

Far from happening last week, as the poster who originated the story claimed. The Stories origins date back much further and are much more sinister than a simple legend lifted from Snopes.com.

Here is the Urban Legend as related to us all last week, by the Border Activist Militia Clique. Below the story, in red is an eirily similar account of Border Town Rape, whose authorship and origin will surprise you...




Originaly Posted Bt GeeGee: in the Border Rape Thread.

My mother in law called my wife over the weekend, to tell her a pretty disturbing story. It was an account given to her by a friend's daughter, who went shopping for the day in a Mexican/Texas border town.

Both the daughter and her girlfriend (both around forty-ish) had decided to drive down to Del Rio to spend a weekend shopping, both there and across the border in Mexico. They were going to visit a Mexican pharmacy to pick up some prescription drugs for their mothers, do some shopping, then head back to Del Rio and stay the night in a local hotel. Their first stop in the Mexican town, whose name is not familiar to me, was at the pharmacy. They had their prescriptions filled, then decided to do some shopping.

The one gal tried on some dresses and found one she liked, but it wasn't in her size. The clerk there said she could get it for her in the right size if she could come back later in the day, so she agreed. She paid the clerk for the dress, and they went on their way. About an hour or so later, the two women got hungry and decided to eat in one of the local restaurants. Here's where the trouble began.

They both ordered their food as well as a couple of margarita's. The waiter brought the drinks and they each began sipping them. My MIL's friend's daughter took one or two sips, and felt extremely ill. She ran off to the ladies room and was overcome with extreme diarrhea, followed by vomiting. Once she had finished and composed herself, she went back to tell her friend, who was still sitting there. They agreed to leave, paid their bill, and left.

They where standing outside the restaurant and the gal that had bought the dress decided she was going to go back to the store, to see if the one she wanted had arrived (enough time had passed by then). Just then, their waiter came out to the street with a tray with two more margarita's. He told them they ordered them during a "2 for 1" special, so he wanted them to have their second, which after all, was already paid for. They each took a couple of sips, then gave back the glasses and headed off. Immediately, once again the one woman was overcome with severe nausea, and had to run into a nearby shop to ask for their batroom. Same results, once again.

By now, she had decided she wasn't goping to keep shopping, and told her friend she would be going back to their hotel in Del Rio. Her friend wanted to pick up the dress, and told her she would meet up with her in a couple of hours, back at the hotel. They parted company and the one gal went back to the hotel, where she fell asleep for hours.

She was awakened by a phone call, and when she looked at the clock, saw it was 1:30 in the morning. She had slept for more than six hours. On the phone was the front desk manager, who told her to come downstairs to meet her friend, who was in trouble. When she got down there, she saw her friend, battered and bruised, and it was obvious she had obviously undergone quite a beating.

They went to a hospital and found she had been beaten and raped. Her friend had no recollection of the evening, after they had parted company. She was dumped off nsomewhere and ordered a cabride back to Del Rio. By now it was obvious that both were given a date rape drug, but it was the one woman's violent reaction to it that kept her safe (by vomiting it up). I believe the police were notified, but am unsure what the follow up was in Del Rio.

When my wife told me the story, I was steaming-both at what had happened, but also at the stupidity of both these women. As I told my wife, both of them should have been more aware of their surroundings, and in my estimation, should just stay the heck out of Mexico. I see no reason whatsoever to venture into that country, and this episoded only reinforces my opinion. I could care less how beautiful the beaches at Cozumel are. Mexico is a Third World country that can do little to ensure the safety of it's visitors, once you venture away from it's top rated hotel vacation properties. Avoid it!




Now here's an Eirily Similar story from an article written in 2001...



Actually, the rape of gringas has been a mestizo sport in the Mexican border towns for a number of years. Groups of college girls go into these border towns as tourists, naively believing that they can walk into a bar and drink with as much impunity as they can in a White bar in the United States. The common practice is for the bartender to slip a "mickey" into a girl's drink, and then when she becomes confused and disoriented, a group of mestizos will escort her into a back room and gang-rape her. The favorite "mickey" used today is a powerful sedative with the trade name Rohypnol. Illegal in the United States, it is readily available across the border. Complaining to the Mexican police after one of these drug-assisted rapes is fruitless, as hundreds of White college girls and their parents have discovered.



Ok...Now here's the best part. You want to know who the author of the exerpt in red is....

Dr. William Pierce
The Author of "The Turner Diaries"

Thats right. The same, shorter version of the Border Rape Legend comes from the collected works of White Supremacist and Founder of "The National Alliance"....none other than... the late Dr. William Pierce and is availible on The National Alliance Web Page, under an archieved article entitled "The Mexican Menace" from 2001. (Not last week as the Border Activist Clique here on AR15.com claims.)

Strange isn't it, that those yell the loudest about the Border Militia's having no racist roots...Are getting their anti-Mexican propaganda from the writings of Dr. William Pierce and "the National Alliance.

I guess one of our Border Activist Clique buddies, must have had two piles of Racist Propaganda cluttering up his work station. "The Border Militia" pile and the "National Alliance" pile and must have inadvertently switched one....huh

Anyway...for those of you wondering where the Border Rape Legend originated...The Mystery has been solved.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:31:45 AM EDT
That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:36:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:41:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 8:43:20 AM EDT by FN-TPS]
Zaphod

That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.



Well thats just the point Zaphod....How can we trust you, When Border Activist Militia Clique, here on AR15.com uses lies and racist propaganda gleened from "the National Alliance's" web site as one of their tools.

That sort of tactic, does not engender a whole lot of trust.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Zaphod

That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.



Well thats just the point Zaphod....How can we trust you, When Border Activist Militia Clique here on AR15.com uses lies and racist propaganda gleened from "the National Alliance's" web site as one of their tools.

That sort of tactic, does not engender a whole lot of trust.



Who cares what they do? Facts is facts.

When I arrived in Laredo, it was (and continues to be) common practicce for women not to travel alone if they can avoid it because there WERE several cases of women being kidnapped and disappearing into Mexico.

Now, if the National Alliance people claimed the Nazis gassed Jews, would you decide not to believe it?

The border is quite dangerous. Far more than it should be, and the calls to secure the border are supremely valid, no matter who calls for it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:46:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:47:39 AM EDT
That is what I said about the Aruba- Hallaway murder deal. People can't go to forgien countries and act like it is like the USA. Friends should be watching each others back, not letting them fall prey to bad guys. Drinking is not wise. Sorry it happens, but you must be responsible when traveling.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 8:57:58 AM EDT
The border towns do have some redeeming value, but in many respects are like the bar in Star Wars where “you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy”.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:01:25 AM EDT
So ,are you a Mexican ,or
just some jackass that's to stupid to see what's
been going on down south ?

Look up the name of almost ANY border town,or even
a town that's just in the lower
southern states.

Look up the freaking crime rates there.

See how much of the crime is committed by non-citizens,
and also check out the percentage of local violant
crime inmates that are from Mexico.

Now look up what it was like in those same towns 10 and 15
years ago.
Is there a difference ?

If that's to much work for you,on a trip to a border state or deep southern
state,stop in at a post office.
Take a look at the wanted posters.

Does the percentage of criminals on the wanted posters that are
Mexican closely resemble their percentage of the local population ?

Oh,please notice,I did NOT say HISPANICS.
I said MEXICANS.
Look it up ,there's a difference.

Before you spot off some ludicrous response,try some of my suggestions.

My thoughts on what to do about the border?

We need to use up our aging munitions somewhere,sometime.
Why not there,and now ?

Oh ,and your right .I DON'T like Mexicans.

The town I lived in was Clarksville Arkansas.
Not a border state,but still destroyed by the invasion.

Check out their crime rate 20 years ago and check it out today.

You can't walkor drive 10 seconds in the once beautiful Ozark
National Forest without seeing piles of trash and spanish phrases
spray painted everywhere.

Also look up Mexico City and kidnapping.
Their the "Kidnapping Capitol" of the world.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:04:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 9:26:18 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Zaphod

That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.



Well thats just the point Zaphod....How can we trust you, When Border Activist Militia Clique, here on AR15.com uses lies and racist propaganda gleened from "the National Alliance's" web site as one of their tools.

That sort of tactic, does not engender a whole lot of trust.




I don't go to all the border towns, but do travel to Juarez (across from El Paso) quite often. I can tell you first hand that it isn't safe for any woman, white or brown. Juarez is called "The City of the Dead" and "The City of Murdered Women" for a reason.

But, you don't have to trust Zaphod, me, or anyone else here.

Just ask these girls and the hundreds others just like them.



If that isn't enough, just do a Google search for juarez women

Here's a good place to start: www.mayhem.net/Crime/juarez.html OR education.nmsu.edu/faculty/ci/milevy/darcie.html


Then, there was this little gem from just a couple of weeks ago:



www.kfoxtv.com/news/4825883/detail.html

El Paso Woman Allegedly Raped By Juarez Police

POSTED: 9:15 p.m. MDT August 8, 2005

Juarez authorities charged two police officers Monday for raping a 24 year old El Paso woman.

The Juarez Police Chief says the woman told investigators the officers stopped her and her husband as they left a nightclub and arrested him for drinking in public.

The Chief says the woman claims she offered the officers a $50 bribe to let her husband go.

The alleged victim then claims the officers put her in their patrol truck and raped her.

Juarez police officers Gerardo Hinojosa and Juan Jose Castorena both deny the charges saying the woman was drunk when they arrested her husband.

But State Investigators say a rape test came out positive.

Both officers have been suspended during the investigation.



For me, this isn't about race, racism, border issues or any other political issue. It is simply a matter of FACT. Period. Now, go educate yourself about what is really going on and quit trying to politicize everything.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:19:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
Now, if the National Alliance people claimed the Nazis gassed Jews, would you decide not to believe it?



Of course Nazis gassed Jews, which would make it even more baffling if someone started some story about them, say, piping poison gas in through your toilet or something, so "MAKE SURE TO NEVER FLUSH YOUR TOILET BECAUSE OF THE NAZIS!! OMG!"

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:19:48 AM EDT
FN-TPS...
I dont understand the reason for your post...


Are you really tring to say that these things dont/havent/ and will never actually happen ..?

PLS come out from whatever rock your living out and realize this type of thing does happen...


or

were you offended insome way by the story...


so you found that story on snopes.... good for you...

but women do die and vanish along border towns...

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:20:55 AM EDT

Originaly Posted Bt GeeGee: in the Border Rape Thread.

My mother in law called my wife over the weekend, to tell her a pretty disturbing story. It was an account given to her by a friend's daughter, who went shopping for the day in a Mexican/Texas border town.



Did we find out if this portion applied to the original poster, or if the email was passed on as-is after it turned up in his inbox from some distant relative who always forwards crap to everybody?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:21:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.



Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:21:38 AM EDT
Just because William Pierce made a statement about something, it doesnt make it immediately false. It also doesnt make it racist. You may not agree with the man on the majority of his beliefs, but that doesnt mean that every word out of the mans mouth had its roots in his doctrine.

If Hitler had remarked on the sky being blue, would that make it a racist remark to talk about the blue sky on a beautiful summer day? Would it mean that the sky wasn't blue, simply because a racist leader made the statement?

I am not taking sides...and I have no horse in the race...but the story about the rape is what it is.
It happens, lets not pretend it doesnt. Its not a racist sentiment, just an observation.

And frankly, if a person goes into a hostile 3rd world country looking for adventure, they are on their own.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:24:49 AM EDT
I'm not saying Rapes and murders do not occure in Border towns.

What I'm saying is that they are far fewer in occurance, than murders of tourists in New Orleans, which before katrina, was reported to have a murder rate ten times higher than any other city in the United States. Yet before the storm, I didn't see any Urban Legends posted saying "White women shouldn't shop on Bourbon St, because they might get Drugged, Raped and Robbed.

This thread is more about the agenda of those Border Militia Clique members, who would knowingly engage in the "ends Justify the means" tactics of the lie and the racial smear.

If all these horrible Druggings, Rapes and Murders of innocent white women are occuring in the border towns every day....then don't you think posting a simple truthfull link would be more helpfull to your cause...rather than doctoring up a story from "The National Alliance web page"

Why would you need William Peirce and the National Alliance at all?....Why would constructing an Urban Legend be nessecary or vital?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:25:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 9:27:34 AM EDT by nationwide]

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.



+1... don't live on the border anymore (not for years) but visit lots for work.

ETA: Here's your link to the truth

www.laredosmissing.com/home.html
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:28:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 9:33:59 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
I'm not saying Rapes and murders do not occure in Border towns.

What I'm saying is that they are far fewer in occurance, than murders of tourists in New Orleans, which before katrina, was reported to have a murder rate ten times higher than any other city in the United States. Yet before the storm, I didn't see any Urban Legends posted saying "White women shouldn't shop on Bourbon St, because they might get Drugged, Raped and Robbed.

This thread is more about the agenda of those Border Militia Clique members, who would knowingly engage in the "ends Justify the means" tactics of the lie and the racial smear.

If all these horrible Druggings, Rapes and Murders of innocent white women are occuring in the border towns every day....then don't you think posting a simple truthfull link would be more helpfull to your cause...rather than doctoring up a story from "The National Alliance web page"

Why would you need William Peirce and the National Alliance at all?....Why would constructing an Urban Legend be nessecary or vital?



I call

I HAVE to go to the hell hole. I don't go because I WANT to.

Links HAVE been posted for Juarez. If you could remove your head from your etopian fantasy world long enough to click on one, you may learn something. It's called educating yourself. Don't let the loud popping noise scare you.

No one is constructing anything here. Once again, what part of the word FACT do you fail to understand?

It doesn't sound like you have much room mentioning anything about someone else trying to use 'ends to justify means'. Unless I read something wrong, you are using what's going on in New Orleans to somehow lessen the severity of what goes on in the border towns and crying racism against anyone who quotes you FACT. Man, are you for real?

ETA - now it looks like Nationwide has added a link for Laredo as well.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:35:02 AM EDT
JksTexas

Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?


Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole.

Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:36:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
JksTexas

Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?


Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole.

Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent.



The urban legend and propaganda are prulgated by the estabolishment to both smear those who call attention to the problem, and to keep the focus of the real problem, incompetent Gov't...
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:38:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 9:41:34 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
JksTexas

Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?


Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole.

Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent.



The urban legend and propaganda are prulgated by the estabolishment to both smear those who call attention to the problem, and to keep the focus of the real problem, incompetent Gov't...



Not all of it IS lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda. Most of it is FACT.

BTW - just how much news do you get from Mexico on a daily basis? Most of this information isn't broadcast in Mexico. It trickles out from groups like Amnesty International and people like me who have been there and SEEN it. Do you really think that the Mexican government WANTS you to know how dangerous it is? For better or worse, we publicize a lot in this country, including the worst of our society. We don't sweep it under the rug because it is bad for business.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:39:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thompsondd:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
JksTexas

Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?


Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole.

Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent.



The urban legend and propaganda are prulgated by the estabolishment to both smear those who call attention to the problem, and to keep the focus of the real problem, incompetent Gov't...



Not all of it IS lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda. Most of it is FACT.



Who is to say how much of each?

There is just enough mis-information out there to cause doubt... enough to make people think it may not be the problem that it really is...
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:50:47 AM EDT
Nationwide

ETA: Here's your link to the truth

www.laredosmissing.com/home.html




Thousands of people go missing all the time here in the United States for a variety of reasons not always relating to murder.

FBI Missing Persons

Just because you've got a Border Missing Persons link, does not mean you have a case for deminizing Mexico.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 9:51:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 9:59:41 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By thompsondd:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
JksTexas

Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back?


Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole.

Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent.



The urban legend and propaganda are prulgated by the estabolishment to both smear those who call attention to the problem, and to keep the focus of the real problem, incompetent Gov't...



Not all of it IS lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda. Most of it is FACT.



Who is to say how much of each?

There is just enough mis-information out there to cause doubt... enough to make people think it may not be the problem that it really is...



Last time I was in Juarez, I got to watch them pull the body of a 16 year old girl out from a ditch behind a factory. They had to use four wheelers to drag her out. She had been stabbed 23 times.

That, and driving by and seeing with my own eyes all the pink crosses planted on the vacant lots is enough for me to know what I need to know.

You can believe otherwise if you want.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:20:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 10:23:02 AM EDT by FN-TPS]
I guess nobody wants to talk about the fact, that tin foil Border Militia types who manufactured this little Urban Lie, from the Racist rantings of Dr. William Pierce, are unworthy of trust and lack the character to say their Militia's represent the American People?

When you start making up Racist Propaganda hit peices out of thin air . You lose the trust of the American people real quick and suddeny you find yourself, not a member of a militia, but a supporter af a White Supremacist Terror oganization instead.

Do any of you truely believe, that the American People would want to be represented by a Militia who borrows it's propaganda from the late Dr William Peirce and the National Alliance?

Claiming to be a Militia that represents the American People and actualy being a Militia which represents the values and honorable conduct the American people would expect of it's Militia protectors are two very different things.

The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda.

A Dishonorable Militia , that lies and engages in Racist Activities, is a bigger threat to America than Mexican Illegal Immigration.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:24:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 10:34:09 AM EDT by thompsondd]
Please provide source/proof that ONLY 'Border Militia types' are 'constructing' these 'lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda'.


Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
I guess nobody wants to talk about the fact, that tin foil Border Militia types who manufactured this little Urban Lie, from the Racist rantings of Dr. William Pierce, are unworthy of trust and lack the character to say their Militia's represent the American People?



I have quoted you FACT. You constantly ignore because you can't argue against it.


Originally Posted By FN-TPS:

When you start making up Racist Propaganda hit peices out of thin air . You lose the trust of the American people real quick and suddeny you find yourself, not a member of a militia, but a supporter af a White Supremacist Terror oganization instead.



Again, no one is making up anything. At least not in my case. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.


Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Do any of you truely believe, that the American People would want to be represented by a Militia who borrows it's propaganda from the late Dr William Peirce and the National Alliance?




Somehow it seems that you think that whoever these people are are the only ones making any type of claims.


Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Claiming to be a Militia that represents the American People and actualy being a Militia which represents the values and honorable conduct the American people would expect of it's Militia protectors are two very different things.




Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda.



No, I would rather be represented by someone who uses the US CONSTITUTION and the Laws of this land. However, I doubt any group is just ignoring those documents and winging it. making up their own rules.


Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
A Dishonorable Militia , that lies and engages in Racist Activities, is a bigger threat to America than Mexican Illegal Immigration.




WTF are you talking about? Can you read? Whose agenda are you pushing?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:27:58 AM EDT
There's only one kind of American that goes to Mexico, an Dumb-American. Why are you paying to go where you might get robbed, kidnapped, raped, etc...? Might as well stay in the USA where we have the infastructure to save you in minutes if the same thing happens.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:36:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
I guess nobody wants to talk about the fact, that tin foil Border Militia types who manufactured this little Urban Lie, from the Racist rantings of Dr. William Pierce, are unworthy of trust and lack the character to say their Militia's represent the American People?

When you start making up Racist Propaganda hit peices out of thin air . You lose the trust of the American people real quick and suddeny you find yourself, not a member of a militia, but a supporter af a White Supremacist Terror oganization instead.

Do any of you truely believe, that the American People would want to be represented by a Militia who borrows it's propaganda from the late Dr William Peirce and the National Alliance?

Claiming to be a Militia that represents the American People and actualy being a Militia which represents the values and honorable conduct the American people would expect of it's Militia protectors are two very different things.

The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda.

A Dishonorable Militia , that lies and engages in Racist Activities, is a bigger threat to America than Mexican Illegal Immigration.



The only thing more irritating than lunatic 88's are the pompous asshats who claim repeatedly to know "what the American People want"

People of this country are perfectly capable of expressing what they want and what they don't want without someone pontificating for them.

As for ILLEGAL immigrants (from any country) they can get the hell out and go through the process like EVERY OTHER LEGAL IMMIGRANT.



Link Posted: 9/4/2005 10:40:00 AM EDT
Don't feed the troll.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:08:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 11:11:16 AM EDT by FN-TPS]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:

The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda.


Originaly posted by Thompsondd

No, I would rather be represented by someone who uses the US CONSTITUTION and the Laws of this land. However, I doubt any group is just ignoring those documents and winging it. making up their own rules.




And isn't it funny how often we find people, here on Ar15.com, who wave the "CONSTITUTION" with one hand and and the "TURNER DIARIES" with the other.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:10:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:

The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda.


Originaly posted by Thompsondd

No, I would rather be represented by someone who uses the US CONSTITUTION and the Laws of this land. However, I doubt any group is just ignoring those documents and winging it. making up their own rules.




And isn't it funny how often we find people here on Ar15.com, who wave the "CONSTITUTION" with one hand and and the "TURNER DIARIES" with the other.




So, what's the title of the book you are waving? The Official French Guide to Uninvited Invasion?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:13:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:
There's only one kind of American that goes to Mexico, an Dumb-American. Why are you paying to go where you might get robbed, kidnapped, raped, etc...? Might as well stay in the USA where we have the infastructure to save you in minutes if the same thing happens.



I spent a long time in Mexico, and I am not a dumb American. The interior towns and cities are a lot better than the border towns, I'll grant you. We did have a number of close calls a few times, but that was because it was during elections.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:34:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 11:35:22 AM EDT by FN-TPS]
Thompsondd

So, what's the title of the book you are waving? The Official French Guide to Uninvited Invasion?



No Actually. I rather like...



It's an invaluabal tool for helping to identify Racist's in Constitutionalist's clothing.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 11:59:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:04:33 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
MrClean4Hire

Don't feed the troll.



Yeah, I've been accused so far, of being a DU Troll, a Liberal Troll and a Race Card Playing Troll.

All by a bunch of members bent on defending a fabricated Racist lie, told here on AR15.com, by our very own clique of Racist Trolls

These Racist Trolls even went so far, as attempting to have me banned!

Oh Whoops MrClean4Hire...I forgot...There are no Racist Trolls on Ar15.com now days...Their all calling themselves Constitutional Patriots and Minutemennow...A much more politically correct term, for their activities.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:14:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:18:54 PM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
MrClean4Hire

Don't feed the troll.



Yeah, I've been accused so far, of being a DU Troll, a Liberal Troll and a Race Card Playing Troll.

All by a bunch of members bent on defending a fabricated Racist lie, told here on AR15.com, by our very own clique of Racist Trolls

These Racist Trolls even went so far, as attempting to have me banned!

Oh Whoops MrClean4Hire...I forgot...There are no Racist Trolls on Ar15.com now days...Their all calling themselves Constitutional Patriots and Minutemennow...A much more politically correct term, for their activities.






So, now I'm a Racist Troll?

Let's see,............................................which one of us keeps throwing around the 'R' word?

I give you credit. You constantly amaze me with your blind ignorance. You know NOTHING about me, yet you are the one who has labeled me a 'Racist Troll'. I shouldn't be surprised. I guess this is some new liberal ploy; demean the words "patriots", "minutemen", and "militia", associate and equate them with 'racism' so anyone using any of the words is automatically cast out. Make them words that conjures the OPPOSITE meaning in peoples heads. Nice.

Perhaps if you put down the 'R' word and quit hiding behind it, you would find far less people calling you 'troll'.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:23:58 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
By the way....What do you suppose the ratio of Racist William Peirce National Alliance Propaganda quoting Trolls to DU quoting Liberal Trolls is on this site...

Judging from the number of "Black Savages in New Orleans" threads, locked for Racist Content over the last few days and the fact that staff, even felt the need to tack a Racist Content Warning Thread at the top of GD...

I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that Racist to Liberal Troll ratio at being about a100 Racist Trolls to about 5 Liberal Trolls.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:23:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 12:55:06 PM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Thompsondd

So, what's the title of the book you are waving? The Official French Guide to Uninvited Invasion?



No Actually. I rather like...



It's an invaluabal tool for helping to identify Racist's in Constitutionalist's clothing.




Well, now it becomes a little clearer.

So, let's learn a little about Mr. Kenneth S. Stern, the author of your little manifesto.

Repeat after me.

EXPOSED.

One more time......

EXPOSED........


From the publisher's notes about the very book you are reading:


Here, for the first time, Stern offers a definitive history and comprehensive exploration of the American militia movement. He demonstrates that this paramilitary movement has deep and barbarous roots. Exposing the movement's political ancestors - the Klan, the Minutemen, the American Nazi Party, Christian Identity, the Posse Comitatus, and The Order - Stern shows how these right-wing extremists connect to today's domestic terrorists. A Force upon the Plain explains how this country has gotten to a point where thousands of well-armed men and women have become so certain that their country is under siege and their leaders cannot be trusted that they believe the only possible defense lies with them and their guns. It uncovers the ways in which these men and women have used newsletters, the Internet, short-wave radio and political campaigns to spread their message of hate across the country and even into the halls of Congress. Militia members have shot police officers, threatened government workers, been arrested in armed confrontations, calmly explained how it might be necessary to kill government officials, and still feel comfortable enough to run newspaper ads for their meetings and lobby their legislators.


So, anyone with a gun is a terrorist, a member of hate group like the Klan, Nazis, etc, a cop killer and/or a revolutionist? Better hurry up with the weapons confiscation plan there Field Marshall Bigot before society unravels. Nice job. This guy has his tin foil, glued on, taped down, and screwed in doesn't he?

Further:

www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1996/vo12no06/vo12no06_fascism.htm


For his part, Schumer is sanguine about the enhancement of federal power to fight terrorism, and is not noticeably troubled about the diminution of individual liberties. He remarked to a reporter last summer, "in wartime, it's different than peacetime. In terrorism time, it's different than peacetime." Schumer insists that America is at war with a vile "right-wing" enemy within, one which could destroy our government.

Schumer's febrile denunciation of a right-wing conspiracy against the republic, and his proposed legislation to address that alleged threat, were largely inspired by the work of Kenneth S. Stern, a "program specialist on anti-Semitism and extremism" with the American Jewish Committee (AJC). Schumer's anti-militia legislation drew heavily on a model statute created by the AJC in 1986 and promoted by Stern. Furthermore, Stern was among the "expert witnesses" summoned to testify at the November 2nd hearing, during which he made available galley proofs of his new book, A Force Upon the Plain: The American Militia Movement and the Politics of Hate.

But Stern's collaboration with Representative Schumer began well before the November 2nd hearing. In A Force Upon the Plain, Stern recalls: "In early March 1995, Thomas Diaz, a member of Congressman Charles Schumer's staff, expressed great interest in [the militia] issue, and together with my colleague Richard Foltin (AJC's legislative director and counsel), we devised a strategy. I would write an analysis of the militia movement, documenting the danger to government officials and the national scope of the problem. Diaz and Schumer would use the report to push for congressional hearings, and I would bring some of the [left-wing] grassroots researchers to Washington for a press conference and to meet representatives of the states' attorneys general."

Stern's report, "Militias: A Growing Danger," was released on April 10th - nine days before the Oklahoma City bombing. The report described militia activists as "clinically paranoid" and bearers of a "disease in the body politic." Predictably, Stern's "insights" were highlighted in scores of newspaper and wire service articles following the April 19th bombing.



from the same article:


In his November 2nd presentation to the House subcommittee, Stern maintained that new federal legislation to outlaw militias is necessary, because even law-abiding militia activists are a menace to public order:

There are people who live near militias, regardless of whether they [the militias] are committing acts that can be indicted or not, that are afraid. They are afraid to exercise their First Amendment rights. They are afraid to send letters to the editor. They are afraid to show up at public meetings. They are afraid to run for public office. I think that is a terrible, terrible state of affairs. [Emphasis added.]

These paralyzing fears are not confined to citizens, according to Stern, but are also incapacitating federal employees: "I've seen memos where Forest Service agents are told not to fly over certain areas because they are afraid of being shot at, [told to travel] in pairs [and stay] in radio contact. I've seen quotes from federal workers when they ask, 'What's the most important part of your job?,' and the answer is, 'Well, it's learning to keep your head down.' I think it's a travesty when that's the level of fear out there."

From Stern's perspective, while fear of government is "paranoia," fear of "anti-government extremists" is reasonable and must be addressed by the passage of laws which target the source of the fears. This would be a radical departure from established rules of evidence. Representative Ed Bryant (R-TN), a former law enforcement officer, pointed out, "The test [of criminal intent] is not whether you or I feel threatened, but, rather, it's whether an individual or organization has made specific threats." It has been said that a "hate group" is any group of people whom liberals hate - and Stern essentially seeks to enshrine this standard into law.

This irony was not lost on Representative Bob Barr (R-GA), who commended the AJC for what he described as the group's "long history of … strengthening and protecting civil liberties" but described himself as "flabbergasted that you … [are] so cavalierly dealing with what you consider rough edges [on the Constitution]. They're more than rough edges. They go, I think, to the very heart of what we are in a free society."

Observing that "we already have very, very extensive criminal laws in this country that do protect us against acts of violence, or conspiracies to commit acts of violence," Barr expressed puzzlement that Stern and other self-described civil rights activists had joined "a pell-mell rush to outlaw more activity, to cut off people from doing things that we disagree with, and there are apparently a lot of allies that you have in this Congress in both parties.... I think it's strange that organizations such as yours, which are normally such zealous champions of civil liberties, and are very skeptical of granting more and more authority to central government authorities, [are] involved in this."

Stern replied by insisting that there is "a qualitative difference between people getting together and using the normal processes - writing their congressman, free speech, assembly - and doing it as part of an armed unit that [is] affecting real people's lives in real neighborhoods." He complained that present laws dealing with conspiracy and criminal syndicalism are inadequate, as they require the government to prove a specific plot against an identified target or individual. The crucial threshold definition of an illegal paramilitary organization, he maintained, should be whether its members and organizers are training with the general purpose of using armed force to resist the government; if so, "That's planning for something that ought not … to be legalized."

Stern's book, A Force Upon the Plain, was published by Simon and Schuster earlier this year amid great fanfare. The New York Times gave it not one, but two, ecstatic reviews. Publisher's Weekly referred to it as the "definitive" book on the militia movement. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) acclaimed the volume as "must" reading for "anyone who is concerned about extremist threats to the American social order."

Like other professional opponents of the "far right," Stern condemns right-wing conspiracy "theories" even as he promotes an essentially conspiracist view of the right. From his perspective, the militia movement is part of a network consisting of everybody from the pro-life lobby to the Aryan Nations. Borrowing a metaphor created by left-wing activist Ken Toole, Stern describes the right as a funnel passing through space. Activists enter through the wide aperture of mainstream concerns, such as taxation or environmental legislation, and are drawn down into narrower and more "extremist" concerns. At the narrowest end of the funnel, "you get someone like Tim McVeigh popping out." The beauty of this metaphor, for Stern's purpose, is that it is a collective indictment of the entire conservative movement.



Good to know which side you are really on. So, you sit and claim racism for anyone who claims to be pro-American, pro-soverignity, anti-illegal immigration, etc, Oh yeah, 'Mexican demonizing' was the term you used.

Yet from the very same mouth spills even more venomous BS. You want to call anyone associated with militias or feelings of American nationalism 'crack pots' and threats to democracy. Nice job labeling everyone with a broad brush. So, if I own an AR or AK, am I some 'government fearing right-wing nut job' like everyone else?

To summarize, it sounds as if you think you are entitled to your thoughts but the thoughts of others must be legislated, criminalized, etc.

Hypocrite.

Might I suggest this one?



Maybe you might learn why you even have the very basic right to sit here and spout such things. BTW - almost every person on ARFcom would DEFEND your RIGHTS to do so.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.





I live near Zaphod and it's true, the story might be urban legend like Zaphod said, but it does happen
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:32:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Don't feed the troll.




+1...


- georgestrings
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:31:20 PM EDT
Illegal immigration is a big burden on this country on several levels. That isn`t propaganda. You can call all the little old ladies sitting in their lawn chairs with binoculars, spotting illegals for the border patrol, racist militia all you want.

The truth is we see what an ugly problem this is and how much uglier it will become if it isn`t stopped. It isn`t about racism, it`s about the survival or our country.

Do you think the Mexican citizens who want the border sealed are racist militia too?

I think i saw you say you wanted the border closed too, if you did, i have no problem telling you i don`t believe you.

Where do you stand on groups like La-Raza?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:42:35 PM EDT
Jesus Thompsondd....didn't you even look at the author who wrote that hit piece on "A Force Upon the Plain", Before you posted it.

That peice was written by William Norman Grigg. Most often found writting Anti Government tin foil stuff at New America and LewRockwell.com, both of which are sites well known, as steaming cauldrons of Anti-Government hate. These sits don't represent mainstream Conservatism and are simply the same as "The National Alliance and StormFront, only without the pictures of burning crosses.

You know what William Norman Grigg, Dr William Peirce, Aryan Republican Army bank robber/murderer Robert Matthews, Abortion Clinic Bomber Eric Robert Rudolph and Oklahoma City Bomber Timothy McViegh all have in common? They were all members or contributers of the John Birch Society, at one time or anouther and they all claimed to be Constitutional Patriots.

If Timothy McViegh had not bombed the Federal Building on April 19th 1994. I feel quite confident, that he'd be a member of this site. With a name like WacoBrng or KilJBTs. He'd probably be a big fan of New America and Lew Rockwell.com. Surfing them every day and post along with the Border Militia Clique ten times a day, while calling various members, who caught him, using Dr. William Peirce quotes....Liberal DU Trolls in need of a banning.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:45:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 1:59:16 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
IronSamVain

You can call all the little old ladies sitting in their lawn chairs with binoculars, spotting illegals for the border patrol, racist militia all you want.


There are plenty of Racist Little Old Ladies...Even Dr. William Peirce had girl friends.

I wish I could find that picture of the Snell chick, who was connected to executed Racist Murderer Richard Wayne Snell of Elohim City fame, holding the sign at the MinuteMan Border Militia rally a couple of months ago.

Be carefull about talking about the little old ladies....cause I might tell you, who some of them really are.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:50:39 PM EDT
Them bozos show up at every gun show I go to. I wish they'd quit, they give us gun owners a bad name.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:13:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
IronSamVain

You can call all the little old ladies sitting in their lawn chairs with binoculars, spotting illegals for the border patrol, racist militia all you want.


There are plenty of Racist Little Old Ladies...Even Dr. William Peirce had girl friends.

I wish I could find that picture of the Snell chick, who was connected to executed Racist Murderer Richard Wayne Snell of Elohim City fame, holding the sign at the MinuteMan Border Militia rally a couple of months ago.

Be carefull about talking about the little old ladies....cause I might tell you, who some of them really are.



Damn their racist old souls! Granny got her binoculars, and we all know the only reason granny would be out there sweating her wrinkled tits off on bingo night is because she just has a thing for Mexicans, for no reason other than they have brown skin.

And the Mexican citizens who feel the same way granny does about wanting to protect their country? They racist too?

Can you list any problems from illegal immigration you don`t like?

How to you feel about La Raza?
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:26:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 2:42:59 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
IronSamVane

Can you list any problems from illegal immigration you don`t like?


You mistake me for someone who is Pro-illigal Immigration sir. The fact is I am quite for sealing the border and sending every illigal alien we can lay hands on back across the border.

My problem with allowing Racist Militia's to represent us in this effort, is that by giving them a seat at the Anti-Illegal Immigration table...we damage our cause as a whole...Racist Militia's may draw some positive publicity to the cause of sealing the border with their circus act in the short term...but may well be the death of that cause in the long term, as the public learns more and more about the character and veiws of those Racist Border Miltia's.

The simple truth of the matter is that, I a Patriotic American Gunowner...Do not want to be represented, by some group of tin foil, anti-government, misfits and wannabe's who claim the rights of the Militiaman, while spouting racist propaganda gleened from race hatred websites.

When a group of people lower themselves to Racist Propaganda and the Fascist Tactics of American Neo-Nazi's, they have forfeited their right to represent themselves as a Constitutiuonaly Sanctioned Militia for the common defense of the American People.

At the point, where they embrace the tactics of the Lie...these so called Militia's become nothing more than a camoflage wearing, anti government, rabble with guns.


Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:47:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
You mistake me for someone who is Pro-illigal Immigration sir. the fact is I am quite for sealing the border and sending every illigal alien we can lay hands on back across the border.

My problem with allowing Racist Militia's to represent us in this effort, is that by giving them a seat at the Anti-Illegal Immigration table...we damage our cause as a whole...Racist Militia's may draw some positive publicity to the cause of sealing the border with their circus act in the short term...but may well be the death of that cause in the long term, as the public learns more and more about the character and veiws of those Racist Border Miltia's.




I am glad that you are for dealing with the problem's caused by illegals.

However, the enemy doesn't have quite the same restrictions on who they pose in front of the camera. Pro-immigrantion forces fight dirty and use race baiting tactics.

I do have a problem with requiring the anti-illegal people to be pure as the wind driven snow in order for their voices to be heard.

While the pro-immigration people dig up the nastiest vilest creatures to spread outright lies, propaganda, and mis-information, to marginalize their opponents and deny them (us) a place at the discussion table.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 2:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
IronSamVane

Can you list any problems from illegal immigration you don`t like?


You mistake me for someone who is Pro-illigal Immigration sir. the fact is I am quite for sealing the border and sending every illigal alien we can lay hands on back across the border.

My problem with allowing Racist Militia's to represent us in this effort, is that by giving them a seat at the Anti-Illegal Immigration table...we damage our cause as a whole...Racist Militia's may draw some positive publicity to the cause of sealing the border with their circus act in the short term...but may well be the death of that cause in the long term, as the public learns more and more about the character and veiws of those Racist Border Miltia's.





Does one have to be racist and member of a militia to help the border patrol? You know that the BP aren`t getting the job done, and there is a serious lack of interest in our government to get the job done. The "circus act" shut down illegal crossings where they were stationed, and i don`t remember hearing of any hangings done by the Minutemen. When the word got out they didn`t even try to cross where the Minutemen were because they knew they would get caught.

I think the Minuteman project has givin the people hope that all is not lost, and has shown that we can get it done.

Knowing the lack of concern within the government and the ineffectivness of the BP to stop them all, would you rather noone did anything?

Noone would be down there if the border was sealed, it isn`t sealed by a long shot. So We the People have begun to handle it ourselves. After all We the People are the ones most effected by it.

Any thoughts of La Raza?

How bout the Mexican citizens who are cheering on, and or directly part of the Minutemen?
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