The one who was booted off the American Airlines flight from Washington to DFW? That so enraged George W.?

Well here's the Captain's log for the incident!

See if you would have let him on your flight!

[url]http://www.nationalreview.com/document/document010802.shtml[/url]

Eric The(AndHe'sAlreadySuing?FireHim!)Hun[>]:)]

Would it have been possible for the SS agent to have placed his pistol in his checked baggage and boarded the plane unarmed?

Pilots and ship captains, as far as I know, still have ultimate authority, like a monarch.  There should be nothing to discuss about this, it was the pilot's call, end of story.

The problem is that federal law enforcement people are arrogant, holier-than-thou pricks.  Can you tell I'm opinionated? [;)]

my brother-in-law is a plain clothes LEO and he has NEVER acted like this goober.    You would never know my brother-in-law had a badge or gun as he doesn't stick out in a crowd.    If this article on the pilot's log is correct then the agent's superiors should send him to training to be "secret".   Had they let him on the plane and there was a bad guy, he would be taken out first because he gave up his identity very publicly.

Interesting.  But again, it's only one side of the story.  Based on all I've heard, the SSagent was in the wrong and should have backed down.


Does anyone think the only reason GWB is backing the SSagent is because the SS are charged with protecting his life?  That to have even the slightest appearance of not FULLY backing any SSagent would hurt morale of all those SSagents whose job it is to take a bullet for the Pres?

If I'm the pilot in command (PIC) of this A/C, this dude doesn't get aboard...not after he blows up...even if the paperwork checks out.  (Tom Clancy has been right way too many times for my liking already!).  He takes his mouth and his gun and finds another way to Texas.

Much as I love Dubya, I think he shot from the hip on this one.  Testimony indicates the AA pilot was entirely correct and absolutely within his rights to deny this guy a seat.  Remember, the PIC is like the captain of a ship.  He rules!

I think most of us would be surprised to learn that this happens quite a bit.  I fly a lot and I have seen rowdy passengers get bounced more than once.  After 9-11, I have not...but that's just common sense...(You'd think!).

I was on a flight early last year when the pilot bounced a loud-mouthed woman and her (10 year old?) child off of the plane.  I REALLY felt bad for the little girl, but her mom was abusing the flight crew over something totally beyond their control and she refused to take her seat so we could leave.  When she demanded to speak with the pilot, he obliged her.  When I saw him coming out of the cockpit putting coat AND hat on...I knew right then she was in deep kimchee.  The PIC then quietly explained to the woman that he was responsible for the safety and security of his plane and its passengers and as such he was requiring her to deplane.  When she balked, the coppers showed up and escored the woman and her now traumatized and weeping daughter off the plane.  I wanted to punch the b**ch, console the kid and praise the A/C commander.

AFTER 9/11 it has became even MORE important to ensure a safe journey.  This pilot did the right thing and Dubya should so state.  While I understand the need to back up his SS troops, especially his personal detail, in this case the agent was WRONG and he should not only drop his suit, he should apologize for trying to push his actions.  If he refuses, then the head of the detail should remove him from guarding Dubya.  I'd find him a job chasing counterfeiters in Alaska if he doesn't admit he's wrong and quiet this down.  If the Prez does not put a blanket on this, it may cost him in the end.
[soapbox]

What marvl said.

This guy sounds like a hold-over from Slick Willie's detail.  

GWB is also defending this guy so he can show he is sensitive to the Arab-American's plight.  

What slays me is that this prick has already obtained a lawyer and is suing American Airlines!

Some discretion this a-hole has!

I wouldn't let him guard my ----!

Eric The(WhichIsJustAsImportantAsThePresidentToMe!)Hun[>]:)]

Right or wrong he has been involved in an incident that reflects poorly on the service. I'm guessing he won't be employed by the Secret Service much longer. Like the F.B.I., to the Secret Service image is everything.

Oh...I sure hope so!  His job requires the utmost in good judgement...which he apparently has a lack of.  He needs to find another line of work.

[;D]

After Sept. 11 both of Taiwan's Airlines (Eva Airlines and China Airline) fired all middle eastern pilots and because passengers refused to board on the same flight with middle eastern passengers, they barred middle eastern passengers as well.

Find another line of work ??   Great, look for this moron on traffic patrol or airport security or mall near you !!

He sure put the prez in a bind...
[url]http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020107/ts/attack_agent_airlines_dc_2.html[/url]

Jesus, ain't THAT the truth...!

[b]Things that HAVE ALREADY happened:[/b]

Challenges to presedential legitimacy: Check
Airliner used as a flying bomb: Check
Biowar attack in the United States: Check
The Drug War getting ugly: Check (Probably.)


[b]Things that have ALMOST happened:[/b]

Hostilities with China: Check


[b]Things that very well MIGHT happen:[/b]

A nuclear terror attack in the U.S.
A (REALLY BAD) biowar terror attack in the U.S.
War with China.
Economic terrorism via sabotage of Wall Street computers.
Economic war.


I'm sure there are other examples I've missed. I'm convinced that SOB uses a Ouija Board when writing his novels! Scares the bejeezus out of me!

Scary aint' it?  [:O]

Well actually, I was thinking of keeping this highly trained and dedicated agent busy doing other things that the SS does...such as...



On the other hand...having him working a mall might not be such a bad idea.  He'd fit right in with the rest of the adolescent mall rats.

[;D]

Sounds like the SS guy was an arrogant prick (not unusual for a federal agent, in my experience).  Based on that link, the captain did the right thing.  It's his ship, he gets to determine what's in the best interests of his crew and passengers.

Every time I've flown with other guys in my unit since 9/11, we've quietly let the captain know who we were and where we were sitting (we weren't armed).  The response has been OVERWHELMINGLY positive.  Most airline folks go out of their way to accomodate LE people flying on business, and it's not too much for them to ask for us to follow their fairly simple procedures.

"Take your big mouth, big pistol and bad attitude, and go away."

How racist!  

The pilot, crew and passengers should have been happy to be trapped on the same plan for hours with an unstable, armed, arrogant jackass.

Better safe than sorry.  I think the captain made the right call. With his decision, the very worst that could happen is that he could lose his job and hurt the SS agent's feelings. If he allowed the suspicious pax on board, the worst that could happen is everyone on board dying.

BTW, was the POTUS on the plane?  No?  Then did the Arab SS agent need to pack his weapon on the flight?  My brother used to work as an airline check-in agent, and denied FBI agents from carrying their weapons on flights, because they weren't on FBI business.

Like Mr. SS agent, they threw their weight around, said they were federal agents and the rules applied to peasants, not THEM.  They always ended up toeing the line and checking their weapons.

I've heard the same.

Maby we are just asking WAY too much for a FEDERAL SS AGENT to be able to read AND write AND be able to fill out a simple document. It's not like FEDERAL SS AGENTS should know what the requirements are concerning rules and regulations for anyone flying on a commercial airline. It also must be a terrible burden to have to even fly with the general public and not on Air Force One.  [(:)]

I haven't really been following this much, but with that said, the link was to the PILOT'S log. The pilot isn't going to say "I kicked this poor SS B@stard off my plane cuz I didn't like his big gun." He is going to make the SS guy look like a doofus(sp?). Like someone already been said, wait for all the facts to come out.

Without saying anything factual, I know of several incidents that lead me to believe that not only the legal response but the incidents themselves are being planned and carried out by Islamic groups.
The ones I know about are actions that any person at all would call the police and seperate the persons involved from everyone else and from their belongings. Within 2-3 days afterwards the court system or the state civil rights office already has a complaint.
This stuff is just too well run to be an accident, and trust me, you are only hearing the tip of who's getting "profiled" and filing on it.
Just a word to your mother...
and I can't help but wonder if the local mosques are setting up the infrastructure to get their guard down for round two.

Hey......where were the Sky Marshalls when this was happening?

Bottom line Captain has final say.

There's always 3 sides to every story also.

Those insensitive bastards! They should be drawn and quartered for this intolerable use of common sense.

Post from Prarie [Sic] Ranger -

Do you know that it's a fact that 'prairie' is spelled 'p-r-a-i-r-i-e-'?

Are were you waiting for that fact to come out?

Eric The(SpellingNazi)Hun[>]:)]

brouhaha,

I can provide you with 3 phone numbers you can call which will verify that I am President Bush.  [;)]

Sir!  It is a real pleasure to meet you.  I had no idea that you were an AR15.com kind of guy.

My regards to Mr. Rumsfeld!

Maybe the guy should have written out the forms in ARABIC! It would have saved a lot of time!

You don't think that the guy's bad attitude had something to do with his denial, do you?

Maybe the poor captian thought that delaying the flight while 2, or 3 phone numbers were investigated, was a waste of time?

Eric The([u]TheLawsuitSaysItAll![/u]DoYouUnderstandTHAT?)Hun[>]:)]

In the US, the Captain has the final say of any aircraft he's in charge of.  Not even his own boss can force him to take the flight.  His company could in theory relieve him from the flight and put somebody else in...but while he's captain, it's his call.

In the years I worked for the airlines, I saw many SS agents come and go, I have never seen anything untoward...every one has been professional.  That doesn't mean this guy was or wasn't a dork though.



On the phone number thingey, if there was a question, we could simply look up the White House Switchboard and be transferred to the right person on the spot.

Post from Brouhaha -

You're right, I am jumping to conclusions on this one, but just consider:

The SS agent (sorry, I couldn't resist) was quoted as saying that the White House was going to get involved in this.

Fact: George W. did say that if the agent's ethnic background was the reason for his removal he would be 'madder than hell.' So the White House did get involved in this fracas, just as the SS agent promised.

The SS agent filed a discrimination lawsuit against American Airlines, which, in and of itself, is, IMHO, evidence of another agenda.

Remember folks, SS agents are supposed to be faceless cyphers that do not call attention to themselves. They have one duty and one duty only, and they should not be so easily distracted from it!

This guy's done everything except go on the Tonight Show with his story!

How much time off has he spent with his lawyer?

It smells of an agenda to me! A bad one, I might add!

Eric The(I'mStillWaitingForFacts,IGuessWe'llReadAboutThemFromTheGuy'sLawyer!)Hun[>]:)]

The Pilot in Command has the responsibility and the final authority as to the safety of his aircraft.  End of story.  He can refuse boarding for any reason.

The attacks of 9/11 happened because pilots were disarmed and unable to protect the the aircraft.  Now, the SS wants the PIC authority to be surrendered also?  What a joke.

Bush, in his zeal to be PC, is on the wrong side of this one.
When will people learn?

No, the airline pilot wrote in his CYA log that the SS agent said that.

I'm sure that Janet Reno wrote in her log, on April 19th 1993, that there were no incendiaries used at Waco, too.  I'm sure you believe her just fine.

Yeah, like that he was discriminated against and prevented from doing HIS job because some asshole thought he was "flying while Arab".

Sure, when that suits your agenda Eric.

Your post certainly does.  As usual.


71-Hour(I'mStillWaitingForEricEvenOnceToPostSomethingThatIsn'tObviouslyBiasedAgainstRagheads)Achmed[:p]

Ah, well, he was Middle-Eastern looking, he was obviously unstable and dangerous, his version of the events is obviously untrue.  [rolleyes]

Do you have a source for this?

The majority of replies to this make me realize why trial lawyers spend so much money on jury consultants!

This thread was based solely by the pilot's log (flight report). We have been presented with only the pilot's side of the story. On that basis alone, the reaction seems to be: "There's a tree! Somebody get a rope!"

The only 'independent witness' I have heard of said the SS agent was in the right. And, as of yet, I don't even recollect hearing details of the agent's version of events – have you?

If this SS guy flung himself in front of a round meant for GWB, you'd probably sending money for a statue for him. Judging from the majority of the responses, you sound like a bunch of knee-jerk hypocrites to me.

So what if he has initiated action against AA? IF he is in the right, why shouldn't he? Being a SS agent doesn't mean you give up your basic rights – does it? They're people, not F*cking robots!

If this incident had happened on Caribbean Airlines, you members of the lynch mob would be spitting blood about his right to fair play, the right to be heard and American justice. The very thing you are denying this guy right now!

Eric, you should be ashamed.

Another point, since so many seem to make such an issue about it:

Most of all that stuff about a ship's captain is true: but not all. Furthermore, it originated in a time when voyages on freighters, or even passenger liners, took weeks, even months. In those days, it made sense. Yet, nowadays, few would bestow that same degree of authority to some ferry-master or pilot on a trip of lasting a few hours.

However, this tradition was transferred to the pilots of planes at a time when they referred to them as, 'air liners', for marketing purposes: four rings for Captain etc.

Frankly. I see the today's airline pilot as little more than a well-trained, well educated and well-paid, Greyhound Bus driver – with no rings at all on his sleeve and no auto-pilot to allow him to relax his concentration as he hurtles down the freeway! Tell me, where's the difference – regarding responsibility?

stcyr:

  Not taking sides, but airline policies, and I believe Federal regulation, permit the pilot to deny boarding to anyone, for his own reasons. He also gets to see the paperwork (and determine to board, or not) any passengers requesting permission to board with firearms. I do not believe that there is any appeal from this denial.

  I am beginning to see why the Pres, and the security detail normally move by mil air (a LOT of mil air).

You know, honestly, I think we have a disproportionate attitude to the safety of air travel – or effects of some catastrophic airframe failure, or bomb.

It seems to me that (with the help of the media) our reaction is irrational, compared to an Amtrac disaster or a couple of buses sufferig the same fate on the freeway.

How does the, now ubiquitous, 'magic of flight' make such a difference?

In this particular instance, my understanding of these (according to the pilot, all so important) forms, was that they were designed by somebody else; and, they were carbon copies filled out by AA employees! If this is the pilot's basis for non-admission, I can see the rational for HIS subsequent, exculpatory, self-justifivication of HIS OWN actions in HIS OWN log! The fact that the subjective flight attendants' (FA's) backed their pilot's version is hardly surprising. The same FA's could not distinguish between English and Arabic text!

If this had happened in another country and concerned another country's airline (and there had been no reference to this SS agent's ethnethicity), this forum would be screaming unjustice and talking about nuking countries and airlines that may restrict SS agents employed to safeguard GWB.

You sound like a bunch of f*ucking, loud-mouthed, pseudo- patriotic hypocrites!

The SS agent turning to the Jesse Jackass method ofdealing with this proves what he is, an arrogant federal agent that needs a new line of work.  The pilot was within his rights and the agent was a jerk. Period.

Post from styrc -

Not even a little bit! The lawsuit and the very talkative mouth-piece lawyer (I know a few!) that the SS Agent chose to represent him in that lawsuit, tell this twenty-three year veteran of the legal profession [b]all[/b] I need to know about this clown!

And his lame-a** lawyer.

Eric The(ThoughHe'sProbablyGonnaGetPaidForThis-JustSoAACanAvoidTheirOwnLegalFeesAndAdversePR)Hun[>]:)]

This guy has to be an idiot.  He couldn't even fill out a stupid form.  He wants to be trusted with a gun on a plane (while everybody else is disarmed) and can't even fill out the form correctly.  SS agents are supposed to be professional.  If I was the pilot, I would have denied him because his "paperz were not in order".

stcyr:

  Thank you for your polite, well-reasoned response.

The fact that this guy appeared calm to the passengers doesn't mean he wasn't a complete jack*ss with the pilot and the other airline official.  While I don't know the specifics of the situation, I doubt that they were discussing the whole matter in front of the whole plane.  He could have been very cordial with the flight attendants to try and calm them down, but when things escalated, he probably got pissed and started acting like a jack*ss.  

I can sympathize with arabs for being racially profiled.  I am sure it is no fun, but the fact is that until the Arab community really steps up and condemns the terrorist attacks and activiely starts helping us hunt down, capture, or kill terrorists, they're going to be racially profiled.  Until now, all the Arab community has done is made a few token statements and then started screaming about racial profiling.  If you don't like being a suspect, do something to make us believe that you're not.