Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/17/2005 1:23:25 PM EDT
Let's assume that all goes well and Iraq is established as a stable democracy. Oil production has resumed to pre GW 1 levels and the insurgency is more or less under control.

In order for Coalition Forces to leave, they must leave an Iraqi Defense force that is able to stand on it's own and protect it's own interests.

What tanks will they buy or be given ? former Warsaw Pact types or M1xx Abrams ?

BMPs or Bradleys ?

What Fighter jet/attack planes ?. Again, think former Combloc or NATO or US.

Apaches or Mi-24 etc.



What I am wondering is, who will benefit from the arms sales that are sure to happen ? The easy answer would be ComBloc junk, but that didn't work out so well for them in GW1 and GW2. American taxpayers would have a fit if Fwance got to sell them all new toys. I know I would.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:29:00 PM EDT
The Iraqis really want the stuff that they see us using, and have been slowly getting some M113s and other somewhat older US gear.

But that is a long ways off. Right now, they need internal security forces, not a conventional army. After all, not Syria nor Iran is nutty enough to try shit while we are there, and we will have a presence in Iraq for quite some time.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:40:11 PM EDT
It really does not matter what we supply them with. We will be fighting them again in 20 years or less.

we gave them chemical weapons 20 years ago and look where we are. We gave arms and stinger missle to the Afgans to fight the russians and now we are dealing with them. Think about all all that scrap metal that was sent to Japan in the 30's. They made good army tanks.

Link Posted: 9/17/2005 1:51:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sixgun357:
It really does not matter what we supply them with. We will be fighting them again in 20 years or less.

we gave them chemical weapons 20 years ago and look where we are. We gave arms and stinger missle to the Afgans to fight the russians and now we are dealing with them. Think about all all that scrap metal that was sent to Japan in the 30's. They made good army tanks.




So I guess the whole concept of Germany, Italy & Japan turning into non-violent democracies sort of escaped you huh ? All the former Warsaw Pact countries that are now loyal allies and members of NATO never gets mentioned over at DU ?



Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By Sixgun357:
It really does not matter what we supply them with. We will be fighting them again in 20 years or less.

we gave them chemical weapons 20 years ago and look where we are. We gave arms and stinger missle to the Afgans to fight the russians and now we are dealing with them. Think about all all that scrap metal that was sent to Japan in the 30's. They made good army tanks.




So I guess the whole concept of Germany, Italy & Japan turning into non-violent democracies sort of escaped you huh ? All the former Warsaw Pact countries that are now loyal allies and members of NATO never gets mentioned over at DU ?





Outstanding rebuttal! I love how people (except those of us that have to serve there) forget about the 50+year "occupation" of S. Korea, Japan, and Germany. We just needed a similar foothold in SWA so we are taking one. Our friends here in Qatar and the UAE have given us very long term leases (think Gitmo) and we will be bedding down here for the very long haul. Do the "pull out now" crybabies forget that we have had 25K-50K troops in the middle east since 1990? I've had the pleasure to spend a lot of time in a former warsaw pact country (Hungary) and they are embracing western culture at an amazing rate, and doing everything in their power to help out the NATO power brokers. Our western culture is still spreading at a rapid rate across the world, and we may have some rough patches, but we will win the greater struggle.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:11:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne

Outstanding rebuttal! I love how people (except those of us that have to serve there) forget about the 50+year "occupation" of S. Korea, Japan, and Germany. We just needed a similar foothold in SWA so we are taking one. Our friends here in Qatar and the UAE have given us very long term leases (think Gitmo) and we will be bedding down here for the very long haul. Do the "pull out now" crybabies forget that we have had 25K-50K troops in the middle east since 1990? I've had the pleasure to spend a lot of time in a former warsaw pact country (Hungary) and they are embracing western culture at an amazing rate, and doing everything in their power to help out the NATO power brokers. Our western culture is still spreading at a rapid rate across the world, and we may have some rough patches, * but we will win the greater struggle.



*Only because we have people like you. Thank you for your service to our country.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 2:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 2:32:51 PM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By Chairborne

Outstanding rebuttal! I love how people (except those of us that have to serve there) forget about the 50+year "occupation" of S. Korea, Japan, and Germany. We just needed a similar foothold in SWA so we are taking one. Our friends here in Qatar and the UAE have given us very long term leases (think Gitmo) and we will be bedding down here for the very long haul. Do the "pull out now" crybabies forget that we have had 25K-50K troops in the middle east since 1990? I've had the pleasure to spend a lot of time in a former warsaw pact country (Hungary) and they are embracing western culture at an amazing rate, and doing everything in their power to help out the NATO power brokers. Our western culture is still spreading at a rapid rate across the world, and we may have some rough patches, * but we will win the greater struggle.



*Only because we have people like you. Thank you for your service to our country.



You're very welcome, and thanks for your support! I'm not really qualified to answer your original question, but based on our history my opinion is that we will arm them with low grade/old tech US stuff and newer combloc stuff. Look at the primary firearm we are supplying to them, AKs not ARs. We have them flying C-130s now, and are supplying some cheap/slow/low recce birds (Swietzers (sp?) I believe, now owned by Sikorski). We'll get them back on their feet in due course, and have them equipped for holding down the fort just long enough for us to come into play. I hope it doesn't take 50 years to get them to where Japan and S. Korea are today. People keep forgetting just how quickly Libya and others in the region decided to "see the light" when bombs started falling on Baghdad. I imagine my children (if not my grandchildren) could easily expect to be deployed to this region, just as easily as my father (and grandfathers) went to Europe and SE Asia.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 3:39:03 PM EDT
Hungary donated 77 rebuilt T72 tanks to Iraq this month.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:35:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/17/2005 7:37:11 PM EDT by crazyhorse705]
here is a link to your question.



www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/nia-equipment.htm


New Iraqi Army (NIA) Equipment

Equipment shortages have been reduced as equipment procured with U.S.-funded contracts began to flow into Iraq during mid-to-late 2004. By 2005, the Iraqi Army had 60 percent of its total authorized equipment, including more than 100 percent of AK-47 requirements. The Iraqi Security Forces Fund (ISFF), as provided for by Public Law 109-13, will further enable MNF-I to meet critical requirements.

U.S.-funded procurement had equipped infantry units primarily with former Warsaw Pact weapons and vehicles. The MOD, using its funds, had also sought U.S.-standard vehicles such as HMMWVs and M-113 armored personnel carriers. Mechanized forces were being trained using T-55 and T-72 tanks, BMP-1s and MTLBs. The ISOF was equipped with M4 carbines, M9 pistols, night-vision devices, M24 sniper systems, M240 machine guns, 12 gauge shotguns, 50-caliber machine guns, global positioning systems equipment, and surveillance equipment.

In August 2003, a number of Statements of Work (SOW) articulated the equipment, equipment training, logistics support requirements, and maintenance requirements for the New Iraqi Army (NIA) and the Iraqi National Defense Force (INDF). Detailed information was provided for the Light Infantry Battalion sets. Site Set Up and Prep of initial Battalion Sets (Including Government Acceptance Procedures) except the "A" Group (1st BN), the offeror was required to submit prices including delivery and site preparation for user operation of equipment to Kirkush Military Training Base (KMTB), Iraq (Mercator Grid Reference System 38SNC 22027 30374), approximately 70 miles west of Baghdad, and close to the Iranian border.

This meant that all delivered items would be unwrapped, unpackaged, assembled, re-assembled, and otherwise placed in operational order while all packing items related to shipment would be assembled and moved to a refuse site identified by the point of contact for the Coalition Military Assistance Training Team (CMATT) at KMTB. All CLINS except for 0002 will be priced this way. An alternative pricing arrangement was not authorized for CLINS 0003 through 0010. Delivery and site preparation for Group B (2nd BN) was to be completed by 8 November 2003 at KMTB. There was no alternative pricing proposal arrangement for the "B through I" series CLINS.

Four T-55s mothballed by the old Iraqi Army were refurbished and transported on low loaders from the old army base in al-Muqdadiyah north of Baghdad to the training base at Taji. The Iraqi army took another step forward in the security of their nation in January 2005 by mobilizing the 1st Mechanized Brigade, an armor unit. Based in Taji, the unit conducted its first operational mission this week with two presence patrols using both MTLB vehicles and T-55 tanks. The brigade also assumed part of the security mission at the Ministry of Defense by stationing BMPs on the MOD grounds.

According to US Army Col. David Styles, the Multi-National Security Transition Command - Iraq armor project officer, the brigade had three primary missions: conduct counter-insurgency operations to provide for a secure and stable Iraq, act as the nucleus of larger formations to facilitate the creation and expansion to a mechanized division and to be Iraq's future mobile reserve.

The brigade soldiers conducted basic skills training at the individual, squad and platoon level for weeks. The training includes physical, weapons, urban operations, traffic control point, patrol, and maintenance training that incorporates the capabilities of their mechanized and armored vehicles. Training also includes civil affairs operations as the brigade will be interacting extensively with the people of Iraq.

On 29 July 2005 the Swiss government approved the sale of 180 M113 armored personnel carriers to the United Arab Emirates. The UAE planned to transfer the 180 APCs, from a Swiss army surplus, to Iraq as a gift. This requires an end-user certicate from the Iraqi government stating that the vehicles are actually bound for Iraq. The RUAG armaments group must submit the certificate to the State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO). The Swiss military equipment law prohibits the export of arms to war zones. As the APC's country of origin, the USA must also confirm that it approves of the deal.

The M113A1 is a lightly armoured full tracked air transportable personnel carrier designed to carry personnel and certain types of cargo. The M113-family was developed the from M59 and M75 which were designed by FMC (Food Machinery Corp.) in the late 1950´s. The vehicle is capable of: amphibious operations in streams and lakes; extended cross country travel over rough terrain; and high speed operation on improved roads and highways.

By August 2005 Iraq's first armored brigade was trained and in the field, with 77 Soviet-designed T-72 tanks donated to Iraq by Hungary expected to arrive in Iraq soon. Defense Solutions announced 27 July 2005 that it would deliver the first five rebuilt T-72 Main Battle Tanks to the Iraqi Army. Iraqi Staff Major General Mahmood Ayoub Bashar accepted these tanks on behalf of the Iraqi Ministry of Defense during his attendance at program review meetings held at the HM Currus Combat Vehicle Technique Company (Currus), Gödöllõ, Hungary.

Currus participated in the refurbishment project under a subcontract to Defense Solutions. These tanks were part of the total of 77 T-72s being rebuilt under a contract between Defense Solutions and the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. The T-72 tanks were originally donated to Iraq by the Government of Hungary. Defense Solutions performed this work under a US State Department license.

The T-72s will be the main combat power of a new Iraqi Armor Division being created with the assistance of the U.S. Army. The Soviet-designed T-72 remains one of the world's best main battle tanks and some think it is comparable to the original M-1 Abrams tank fielded to US forces beginning in 1980. The T-72s being provided to the Iraqi Army were the original model, have not been upgraded and are no match for the highly advanced Abrams M1A2 and the M1A2 SEP (System Enhancement Program) version used by the US Army.

The T-72s were deactivated by the Hungarian Army at the end of the Cold War and placed in long-term storage. Hungary, which became part of NATO in 1999, donated the tanks to Iraq with NATO approval.


Defense Solutions, LLC is an international project management and consulting firm with offices in Washington, DC, and Philadelphia, PA, USA; Tel-Aviv, Israel; and Budapest, Hungary. Defense Solutions provides program management and strategic studies and analyses for its clients. It also provides business development and program advocacy for companies in the Defense, Homeland Security, Information Technology and Telecommunications markets. Defense Solutions utilizes a network of experts who have a wide range of specialties in industry, government, the armed forces, law enforcement, maritime security and national politics.
Link Posted: 9/17/2005 7:36:55 PM EDT
We, the Taxpayers, will be reequipping them with US equipment
Top Top