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Posted: 8/22/2006 9:41:29 PM EDT
I'm reading Tom Clancy's non-fiction book "Shadow Warriors".  In one section his co-author, Carl Stiner, a retired general, is recounting his Ranger training.  They are slogging around in the mountains of north Georgia on a training exercise culminating in a mock attack on a dam.  He comments that they usually put out a large volume of fire in that situation, but in this instance only 10 rounds or less were fired. He states on page 122:

"...we had been using our weapons as pikes in order to climb the steep, ice-frozen slopes, and the end of most of our rifle barrels had been too plugged with ice to fire."

Would a someone in Ranger training really use their rifle like a sharp stick and poke the barrel into the ground to help them climb a hill, especially in anticipation of firing the same rifle at any moment?

And how could having the end of the barrel plugged prevent the primer from igniting the powder in the round?  I imagine they were training with blanks, but I still don't get it.

I'm not sure if Clancy is a fan-boy wowed by the tall tales of an operator without the experience he claims or I'm missing something here.  Anybody able to help me understand this?  Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:27:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Im sure if your carrying a cleaning kit the rod from the oposite end would unplug the barrel.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:45:28 PM EDT
[#2]
If they were training with blanks, the muzzles were plugged by the BFA's anyway. I would seriously doubt that any RI worth his salt would allow the trainees to use their weapons for anything other than weapons.

If they needed something to traverse and climb with, the tools would've been available and the weapons slung except for those pulling security while others climbed.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:45:44 PM EDT
[#3]
EDIT: Forget it.  It's just not worth it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:56:52 PM EDT
[#4]
height=8
Quoted:
If they were training with blanks, the muzzles were plugged by the BFA's anyway. I would seriously doubt that any RI worth his salt would allow the trainees to use their weapons for anything other than weapons.

If they needed something to traverse and climb with, the tools would've been available and the weapons slung except for those pulling security while others climbed.

have u read the book?...this was back in the 40s/50s the earliest weapon i've seen a BFA for is in the M14 FM
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:35:03 PM EDT
[#5]
I haven't read the book, but I've got a copy laying around somewhere.  Guess I should dig it out and read it.

Using rifles as climbing tools?  Probably unwise but not totally implausible.  Ranger students do unusual things, especially when the RI is on your ass.

I've had the privilege to meet and work for a few General Officers, and it has been my observation that one does not rise to a position like Commander in Chief, US Special Operations Command by being a bullshitter.

Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:44:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Good luck reading the rest of that book, it's a bore.  Well, to me at least.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 10:05:52 PM EDT
[#7]
It took me years of deprogramming before I could stick my bayonet into the dirt.

No Ranger is going to stuff his rifle into the snow/ground on purpose, and render it inop.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 4:29:10 AM EDT
[#8]
They preface that particular section placing events in 1964, but don't specify what weapons they are carrying.  Would plugging the end of a rifle even render the cartridge in the chamber inoperable?  I assume it would fire, then over pressure the chamber due to the plugged barrel and explode the receiver, something certainly worthy of noting in the retelling of the story!  Then again I don't have much concrete experience, hence my post here.
Link Posted: 8/23/2006 2:32:40 PM EDT
[#9]
my common sense gut reaction is to call bull shit
Link Posted: 8/25/2006 3:48:08 PM EDT
[#10]
I totally believe it!!!  Especially in a training exercise.  I've been through many manuvers where guys just didn't care or were too tired to care.  They rationalized it buy saying "it's just training".  I've seen guys toss their rifles to the ground with no care at all.  I've seen them use them a prying devices.  I've even seen them play "sword fight" with them.  And it wasn't just seabees I've seen.  Marines, soldiers and airman alike (when NCOs aren't looking, that is).

I will say that I never saw any of these same individuals treat their weapons with anything but a tender touch while on deployment.
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