Rare photo, WW2 anti-tank dog.

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Posted: 1/30/2006 3:04:13 PM EDT

Rare photo of a German anti-tank dog in training. Comments?

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:03 PM EDT

[#1]

link?

ETA:
Sure that's not a palestinian dog?

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:19 PM EDT

[#2]

IS the dog wearing a muzzle?

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:05:59 PM EDT

[#3]

Draw down, really!

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:06:34 PM EDT

[#4]

What is that?

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:07:16 PM EDT

[#5]

I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:09:56 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:10:28 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

So THAT'S where the ROP'er's got the idea from!!!

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:18:58 PM EDT

[#8]

only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:19:41 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.

Trust me, it's fun....

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:23:06 PM EDT

[#10]

you know that was probably a great idea until the first Texas Country boy saw the dog coming and said, "You! Git home! Git!, Go on!" and started throwing sticks at the dog.... that scared dog ran back and hid under a tent in the GERMAN camp, well... I bet it wasn't so funny anymore.

TRG

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:24:12 PM EDT

[#11]

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:28:05 PM EDT

[#12]

I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:30:29 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.

Payback is a beeotch!!

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:34:17 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.

Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:38:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.

Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...

Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:42:39 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.

Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...

Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.

That was always my understanding as well... I would bet even money that is a Soviet training photo.

ETA: After a short Goggle search that picture is purported all over the Internet to be a Soviet picture not German.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:48:17 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

Except that it was a Russian tactic to make up for the lack of armor early in the war. What you see in the photo was a training simulation. The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.

BTW, the Jerries, for all their faults, were stunned by the tactic, being a nation of dog lovers.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:50:58 PM EDT

[#18]

As I saw it, probably on the History Channel, it was the Russians, not the Germans, who used dogs to fight tanks.

Posted: 1/30/2006 3:51:38 PM EDT

[#19]

Doesn't surprise me. Russians were no better than the German at that time.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:00:55 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
only problem is that they would run back under their own tanks because they trained on them.

Maybe so but it appears that dog is training on a T-34...

Yes, I think it is.
I thought it was the Reds who used the dogs, not the Krauts.

That was always my understanding as well... I would bet even money that is a Soviet training photo.

ETA: After a short Goggle search that picture is purported all over the Internet to be a Soviet picture not German.

Ja? Well, both sides had captured the others tanks. Having a T-34 to have the dog run under is not a real big deal for the Germans, or having a PanzerKampfwagen IV for the Soviets. Could be either side.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:09:36 PM EDT

[#21]

That is actually a really good idea combat wise.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:14:05 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
That is actually a really good idea combat wise.

Right?

I thought I was the only person who saw that.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:23:09 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Ja? Well, both sides had captured the others tanks. Having a T-34 to have the dog run under is not a real big deal for the Germans, or having a PanzerKampfwagen IV for the Soviets. Could be either side.

No is a Soviet picture. Found it referenced in Soviet histories... no where except this thread I can find is that picture portrayed as anything but Soviet..

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:25:20 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it is sad they were using dogs packed with explosives to run at tanks and detonate under them.

Fuckin jerry's

- rem

i agree a cat and a skeet thrower would have been much cheaper in the long run.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:26:29 PM EDT

[#25]

It's the Russians who trained their dogs to go beneath tanks. Food was tossed there and so the dogs associated the tanks with food. Only trouble is that the dogs couldn't distinguish between a Russian tank and a German one, so they lost their own tanks to their own dogs.

As a sidenote, examine the mantlet on the turret. It's a dummy gun. I've never seen a T-34 training tank pic until this one.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:31:26 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
It's the Russians who trained their dogs to go beneath tanks. Food was tossed there and so the dogs associated the tanks with food. Only trouble is that the dogs couldn't distinguish between a Russian tank and a German one, so they lost their own tanks to their own dogs.

As a sidenote, examine the mantlet on the turret. It's a dummy gun. I've never seen a T-34 training tank pic until this one.

Yea that is not a combat vehicle… so it is not a German picture. And that is a T-34/85 turret so this picture is from later in the war than I had heard the Soviets were doing this.

Posted: 1/30/2006 4:38:34 PM EDT

[#27]

This just BEGS to be made into an inspirational poster.

Posted: 1/30/2006 5:07:35 PM EDT

[#28]

I have read briefly about these; the stick on the dog's backpack is the trigger for the explosives. It is too tall to fit beneath the tank, so when it is flipped down...boom.

As to the origins of the picture I have no idea, arguments for both sides are possible.

Fascinating find.

Posted: 1/30/2006 6:48:01 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.

David Fletcher (Curator, Royal Armored Corps Museum Bovington) told me he had been amazed when he saw anti-tank mine-dogs in Russia only a few years prior to when he was speaking to me in the 1990s. He had also thought that the idea had been abandoned.

NTM

Posted: 1/30/2006 6:51:12 PM EDT

[#30]

This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?

Put some LEO's in the turret! *dons flame proof suit*

Posted: 1/30/2006 6:53:29 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Doesn't surprise me. Russians were no better than the German at that time.

considering the millions of russian soldiers and civilians who were dying, i can hardly blame them for utilizing every resource they had available to win the war.

Posted: 1/30/2006 6:56:07 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?

The problem is seeing the dog in the first place.
The second problem is that dogs are generally smaller and faster than people.

ETA, and they may well not know enough to be as scared as your average anti-tank crew. Not to mention the reward based training.

Posted: 1/30/2006 7:21:28 PM EDT

[#33]

Im sorry, I was a little tipsy when I posted this. It is in fact a Russian training pic, the catption even says so . Sorry guys! I have another pic somewhere of a German halftrack w/ crew eyeing a dog about 10ft away from the vehicle. The caption on that is suprised the dog is still alive because of above tactic.

edit: and if I remember right that anti-tank dog pic is from after WW2.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:15:27 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
This begs the question how hard is it to just shoot the f-ing dog?

It isn't. That's why the Germans started shooting every dog on the battlefield.

NTM

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:19:11 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:
That is actually a really good idea combat wise.

Right?

I thought I was the only person who saw that.

Should try it with potbelly pigs and caves.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:22:45 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Rare photo of a German anti-tank dog in training. Comments?

photos.yafro.com/pics3/i/20060130/16/f/a/9/fa983957997d46f08638b11c28843fb5200601300_full.jpg

I don't think that is correct. The Russians used dog bombs that they trained to look for treats under German tanks. Problem is the dogs usually ran under the more familiar looking Russian tanks.

Russians were the same ones that shot a dog into orbit to die. Russians are shitbags.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:23:45 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I think it was the russians that came up with the dogs/tanks first. The problem was the dogs did run under the wrong tanks and it was set to blow by contact. I want to add that they train the dogs byn staving then feeding them under a tank. So the dog gets conditioned if he wants to find food to look under a tank.

+1 I don't think the Germans EVER used dog bombs.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:38:07 PM EDT

[#38]

Gentlemen, I am the softest heart here when it comes to dogs, but as a soldier of many years it is a foregone conclusion that every time I move out across the berm my life is on the table, because that's what war is all about. I ain't complaining either.

But as my life is on the table, my dog's life is also there with me. Each combat K-9 is very loved, and very expendible.

Oh, but it's a suicide mission Fordguy? how many suicide missions have you gone on fordguy? See each mission could be a suicide mission, you don't know. You treat each one as if it may be THE ONE. Obviously, none of mine have been true suicide missions as I am still fogging up mirrors.

When your country and freedom is at stake, you'd send YOUR dog. I don't like Russions, hell I really don't like anybody, but that was a war Russia had to win.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:39:03 PM EDT

[#39]

Problem solved!

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:53:01 PM EDT

[#40]

I am guessing that rod at the top would bend when the dog was under the tank - setting it of.

Kind of sad and sick if you ask me. I mean - I understand war is war and one must destroy the enemy. But dogs are MANS doing. We have an obligation to take care of them.

Eh - oh well. Its not like Stalin had any respect for anything else - so why should I be suprised. Maybe the souls of the dead dogs now have iron hot noses, and get to sniff Stalins crotch all they want in hell.

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:55:35 PM EDT

[#41]

Dude, with all the people dying in that war, Russian, or German, Soldier or Civilian, the dog is just small potatoes. Every woman within 500 miles of where that picture was taken was probably gang-raped and then shot, so who gives a shit about the dog?

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:59:22 PM EDT

[#42]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog

Posted: 1/31/2006 12:01:28 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Dude, with all the people dying in that war, Russian, or German, Soldier or Civilian, the dog is just small potatoes. Every woman within 500 miles of where that picture was taken was probably gang-raped and then shot, so who gives a shit about the dog?

I don't think it's unreasonable to care about all of the bad things about war, soliders k.i.a., dogs, animals, women being raped, ect.

Anyhow it was the russians. I've read they were equally ruthless with older or retired service dogs, they used them for the stronger youthful dogs to prey on teaching them to be agressive.
Then again the speznants often maim or kill prisoners of the gulag at will in training.

Posted: 1/31/2006 12:12:00 AM EDT

[#44]

Philosophically, I guess it's better to be a dead dog than the property of a country that would send animals to their deaths to knock out a tank.

I hope, on a cosmic level, those dogs get to bite the nuts off the guy who hatched this idea in the great hereafter. Karma, and all that.

Posted: 1/31/2006 3:30:12 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The Russians abandoned the practice when they had some armor and the dogs came back at their own armor.

David Fletcher (Curator, Royal Armored Corps Museum Bovington) told me he had been amazed when he saw anti-tank mine-dogs in Russia only a few years prior to when he was speaking to me in the 1990s. He had also thought that the idea had been abandoned.

NTM

Would make sense as a first strike weapon, IMO. Maybe they revived it for the Germany scenario.

Posted: 1/31/2006 2:02:30 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I hope, on a cosmic level, those dogs get to bite the nuts off the guy who hatched this idea in the great hereafter. Karma, and all that.

Reminds me of the Willie and Joe cartoon where the MP at the POW processing station tells them, "I'll let ya know when we get the one that invented the 88."