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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/23/2002 5:20:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 3:07:23 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:27:55 AM EDT
[b]6) Pure trolling. Either to piss someone off or simply for your personal enjoyment.[/b] We've covered this at length and there is little point other than to instigate yet another day of disruption on the site. Your statements are appreciated and sincere, but today is another day and considering your earlier topic re: voting, you are creating the appearance of one who wishes to perpetuate a conflict while simultaneously sucking me into the melee. Please refer to the code of conduct. Thank you.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:36:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:41:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:48:25 AM EDT
Yeah...What he said![rolleyes]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:51:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 5:51:36 AM EDT by BenDover]
Someone made the comment that either you are the fighter or you are the referee. If you guys want to hash this and rehash it. So be it. beekeeper1, it's your baby. But at this point, I am going to take the advice of the wise person who stated the fighter/referee comment.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:51:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:53:50 AM EDT
#6 "Pure trolling" would tend to mean 100 percent of a thing, if there is a percentage of valid discussion, then it is not "pure trolling" I would have to say it is a topic stimulation tactic. PS BenDover, love the new look
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:59:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:59:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 6:00:34 AM EDT by BenDover]
Thanks bountyhunter. I thought I could use a makeover. If you feel there is merit in discussing this among yourselves, and can adhere to the Code of Conduct while doing so then have at it. beekeeper is involved and I trust him implicitly here. [b]thedave[/b] So what I am gathering from your statements here is that you esentially agree with my motivations and would side with me up to the point of learning that my friend was black. As if having knowledge or not having knowledge somehow changes the principle?? Either there is a fundamental principle or there isn't, and your assertion that you would respond and/or behave differently on the basis of knowing the guy's race is.... well, that's the definition of racism. Behaving differently on the basis of the color of skin. I have said too much and I now leave this discussion with you and beekeeper. beekeep... hollar if you need me, I got your back bro.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:01:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:05:20 AM EDT
Just my $.02... When it comes to your skin, it is not about color, and that should not matter. It is about the thickness. I am a Law Enforcement Officer along with several other members here. At least once a day I see derogatory remarks towards my proffession. I take it with a grain of salt, and so I feel should everyone else, no matter race, religion, ethnicity, proffession, or sexual orientation (well, o.k. maybe not the last one [:D]). The fact is, while we all share a common love for firearms, we will all have differing opinions on other issues. The fact is, I feel am better than the LEO's commonly bashed in the threads here. I know me, and I know my beliefs, that is all that matters. I feel that the same should apply to some of the "thinner skinned" folks around here. This is not meant in any way to be a flame, just to say I like it here, and try to be tolerant of the few who may attempt to provoke things because the vast majority of people here do not. Sometimes each one of us may be uncomfortable by a posted topic or discussion, but overall this is a great place to be. Try and remember that. Thanks for your time
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:08:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 6:09:29 AM EDT
Can't we all just get along??? [stick][stick][stick] [BD][8][BD] [stick][stick][stick] HA!
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 7:24:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: Had BenDover not felt it important to state that his friend was black, this discussion might have gone a completely different route. I for one would have received it with much more credibility.
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I agree.
Originally Posted By thedave1164: I have a lot of tolerance for a lot of things, but not for stupidity and liberalism.
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I agree again, however I would also add hypocrisy to that too.
Originally Posted By thedave1164: I don't see a color, I see a person, a human being.
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HA! I just went through my new employee "Diversity Training" PC-bullsh!t workshop at my job. Right off the bat we were told that a statement like what you said is the very epitome of racism. That by "ignoring" a person's race/gender/sexual identity is to ignore their very personality, culture and identity.[puke] That by not seeing and acknowledging their cultural/sexual/racial identity is dehumanizing and "worse" than hateful. We were also told that "anyone" who says something like that is a "liar".
Originally Posted By thedave1164: And until they decide that being a productive member of society is beneath them, I will treat them with respect. Everybody starts off in my mind on ground zero. I see them as a fellow human being, no better/no worse than I. As I get to know them it either goes up or down from there. How they behave and who they associate with does have a lot in determining how I perceive them.
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Wise words. Thanks for keeping this thread going Mods. [:)]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 7:42:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 7:43:28 AM EDT
I like BenDover, but I believe he is full of shit when he says that. Example- Whenever a racial topic pops up, and it [b]DOESN'T[/b] turn into a a minority suck-ass fest, often times, you will see a post by a member with [b]ONLY[/b] 1 post, and it goes something like this...
I am a black man, and I have been lurking for a long time... I own , and assorted Class 3 items. I am a vet, and I shoot . I was going to join your site, but because of all these racist topics, i'm not going to anymore
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The only reason you don't see those posts anymore is because of accounts not being as easy to get as they once were. If they were still readily accessable, BenDover would have gotten one, and gone about it that way, just like innumerable other White people have done in the past with racial topics. It's an unreal sociological phenominon. The whote man pretending to be a black man for the sake of defending black people. And it is VERY common on BBS's. Anywhoo... As far as this crap
6) Pure trolling. Either to piss someone off or simply for your personal enjoyment.
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That is so gay, I don't even know how to address it. It is so subjective and infinite, that drafting it as a "rule" makes no sense, since rules are supposed to dictate certain, specific, identifiable behaviors that aren't permitted... Not just be a broad stroke that those in authority can use to dispose of those they disagree with. Anyway, that being said, I believe the mods have been fair as of late. I've been asked to delete a few things, and I have. Most of them are pretty fair, and willing to work with ya if you are willing to work with them.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 8:19:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: I would like to take the time to apologize to those I may have disrespected in the heat of the moment during the past couple of days. I get passionate about issues, just like anyone else. And personal attacks and disrespect is not the way to settle things. I wouldn't expect anyone to take me seriously with the way I have personally behaved in the past couple of days.
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thedave - likewise, I apologize for making similar statements directed at you in a rash manner. The overwhelming majority of the members here are good people with diverse perspectives. Even good people get twisted and fired up at times. But it takes a truely class individual to step forward after the fact and apologize. Also like you, when I get passionate about something, I am going to just say what's on my mind. Alas, those days are somewhat over. My problem is that I would have carried on the topics no differently as a mod or member. Wherein as a Team Member, I had the luxury of saying what the hell I wanted to. Where I could previously let it all hang out and the proverbial shit fly... I now have to choose between participation and moderation. I have 12 months in as a member and a year prior as a lurker. Contrast that to 1 week as a moderator. The game has changed for me, but I agreed to it. I was skeptical when Goatboy told me "you'll see!" since I am an Internet Toughguy like the rest of us. I didn't think there would be as radical of a difference and things would continue as before. Well Goatboy... I will let you tell me "I told you so." ... ya bastage.... [:D]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 9:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 1:55:53 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 10:53:28 AM EDT
hey, i've been sifting thru these "racial threads" for a while and i would like to point out something if i may. and from reading some responses, it seems like some folks may feel the same way i do. so here goes: i'll admit, i'm a bit prejudice. but i'm not racist. i would never let my prejudices take presidence over human decency & have them become action. the thought never enters my mind. but hell yea, i don't mind having a productive discussion about it with folks that may feel the same way. it's not like i'm recruiting for the arian race or something. i see nothing wrong with discussing/bitching about such facts, events, statistics, regarding the topic openly with the people here on AR15.com. it wouldn't lead me to believe that anyone who piped up about it would have white hoods in the trunk of the car or anything. i know, traditionally we (whitey) are supposed to keep our mouth shut because we are just gonna have to carry the "racially repressive cross" 'we're responsible for'- forever. from what i read on here in general, most of us on this forum are good people. and yea, we get upset that some organizations will never let the racial wounds heal. so what, i have to bitch about sometimes! i'll bitch about to whatever ethenic group dares ask me. i don't care. but IT DOESN'T MAKE ME RACIST!
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 11:06:40 AM EDT
Copied and pasted from another thread, but it still aplies... When I first discovered this board I was elated to find so many people with the same interest as me--THE BLACK RIFLE. I immediately registered and gained valuable information on a variety of things concerning THE BLACK RIFLE. I kinda looked up to some of the guys here cuz of the vast knowledge they seemed to possess and quick to help a newbie. Well, one day all these warm and fuzzy feelings got blown out of the water. For a while I began to notice a lot of threads regarding minorities and how bad they were messing things up and how they would do this and that to them. I couldn't believe what I was reading! Of all places it was happening here! My beloved AR-15.com. I guess I just had to accept the fact that even here there would be racist or ignorant people just like anywhere else. It just angers me how people can cut down a class of people based on a few. EVERY race has its dirtbags: Blacks, Latinos, Asians, and, yes, believe it or not, Whites, too! Look, I work at a Juvenile Correctional institution and I've come to see where a lot of these come from and what there up against. I've also learned a lot about different cultures. And you know what? It's a freaking struggle for some of these guys. I'm not condoning what they have done, but it's no wonder they have come in contact with the law considering the lack of resources they have and the plain shitty environment they are in. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I held a lot of you guys in high regard until I started seeing a lot of biased and unfounded comments against certain segments of the population. After working where I work at I've come to the conclusion that the real criminals are those like the ENRON execs, S&L that bilked millions from honest hard working citizens, corrupt politicians and programs, and a variety of other powerful entities that have the power to affect YOUR lives. They are dangerous in a different way because how can YOU protect yourselves from waht these guys are up to?. I don't know what else to say, fellas, but some of you guys just need to be a bit more open minded, read a bit more history, and see who the real culprits are to the current state of affairs. Last time I checked it was our elected officials that put a lid on our first amendment rights (i.e. campaign finance reform bill) that will trul impact this election and those to comes. I'm more afraid of these people than the average street punk who I can deal with....just my two cents. ________________________________________ DILIGENTIA, VIS, CELERITAS
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 1:51:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 1:53:31 PM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 1:56:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 1:58:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 2:17:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 2:32:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 2:39:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 3:30:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:01:10 PM EDT
The comment about skin color was right on...it DOESN'T MATTER! I would love to see a lot more like minded blacks, hispanics, etc. on the site and involved in our hobby and defense of liberty and conservative issues. I personally have met some black men that were awesome people. Hardworking, sensible, family oriented people that any of us would respect. Now here is where we tread onto shakey ground. This is still in the context of having a discussion. Please don't turn this into another bashing thread or flame war...... The black people I have respected were the minority. I always try and give any person I meet the benefit of the doubt, regardless of race. But most black people I have met were not the kind of people I would associate with or respect. I have a question. Am I prejudiced? Really, I mean, I honestly feel that the black community has some real problems....witness the riots, wildings, violence and crack dealing, gang banging, reparations demands, etc. Now, I wasn't raised to have an opinion one way or another. I went to a forced integration school growing up and my parents were never racist. I had black friends from kindergarten on. My opinions have been formed by a lifetime of personal interaction with people of all races, and critical analysis of that interaction along with the actions of black leaders and the black community as a whole. So does that make me prejudiced? And where do the facts fit in? And in regard to the facts, at what point does the black community admit the problems they face rather than blaming it all on "whitey"? I would love to see these issues resolved. Face it, if the black community ever figured it out how the liberal movement along with their own leaders have held them down, they could be a huge ally in freedom for us. Ben Dover, what does your friend have to say about that?
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:14:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2002 4:15:51 PM EDT by thedave1164]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:32:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 4:55:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: I would not have cared to associate with that Jeffrey Dahmer fellow. We just had different tastes.
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Please, please I beg of you edit that before I fall out of my chair.[shock]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:03:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: I would not have cared to associate with that Jeffrey Dahmer fellow. We just had different tastes.
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I think [b]beekeeper[/b] is getting his sense of humor back! VOICE OF MODGOD: [i]{[b]BeeKeeper1[/b]: Please report to the Mod Collective immediately for a follow-up 'Moderator-Reprogramming Session' - you're becoming human again}[/i] [:D] just hackin' on ya' [b]bee[/b] [;)]
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 5:19:12 PM EDT
BeeKeeper, Very well said. I suspect the majority of blacks (and really most that I've met)or any other race ,are good ,hard working people.Just trying to get on with their lives.The silent majority,if you will. For whatever reason the vocal leadership of many of these communtiies are of the "the world owes us a living" variety and seem able to silence or label the alternate view out of publicity(much like liberals do to conservatives).So its these vocal(nutty liberal) types that I think most folks are having a problem with.It might sound as though they're lumping everyone together(and if they do,obviously they are wrong)but I suspect its mostly the unreasonable crazies.Of course if an individual identifies himself with these types,he'd probably be offended. Dave, You've got a lotta balls airing out your families dirty laundry like that.I also have some not so nice history in my family(which I choose not to go into).I agree that whatever might have happened to you at a certain point you've got to make decisions and be responsible for them. I also believe that there are real,harmfull things that can effect anyones life(reguardless of color) in a negative manner,more so than being black,brown,yella....whatever.
Link Posted: 8/23/2002 7:01:20 PM EDT
Dave-- Thanks for this post. I'm glad you turned out the way you did. You have a lot of excuses to have a "the world owes me a favor" attitude. Beekeeper-- Thanks for the level head and keeping this thread going. I think we needed a sensible discussion after the last few days.
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