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Posted: 5/9/2001 9:22:46 AM EDT
Is it just me or is more and more common to see training programs excluding civilians? Even Glock closed it's doors to civies in it's Armorer program. I've noticed matches that are LE/military only and of course firearms trainers, WTF?
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:27:06 AM EDT
WTF? Civil litigation is WTF! LE and military are covered for this training as it is a requirement of their job. Any injury is covered completely. Civilians may or may not have coverage. Some health insurances won't cover severe injuries sustained in such training. Some life insurances won't pay for death from such training. So......the training centers/ranges/etc. get sued for big money. Fool me once.... This doesn't happen more than once.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:27:16 AM EDT
You are not to be trusted.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:48:50 AM EDT
Go to Thunder Ranch, or Black Water Lodge if you want some serious combat training. Of course it's gonna cost you. Imbrog|io is right though, you're not trust worthy enough to possess that kind of knowledge.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:01:21 AM EDT
Imbro is too poorly armed and too wired due to his unwillingly imposed celibacy to be trusted to do any sort of "combat" training. He would be a menace to any and all within shooting distance. Also anyone within gunfire distance. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:02:58 PM EDT
Yes! It torques me off to no end that HK is training the entire alphabet soup of US agencies, as well as foreign agents, in my back yard (Loudoun) and doesn't offer any training to us mere citizens. I'm not sure of the arrangement regarding the range facility. I hope that HK owns it, and allows the LC Sheriff to use it free, but I would not be suprised to learn the County owns the range, and allows HK to run a for profit training center in exchange for supplying the Sheriff cool HK toys.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:26:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:30:15 PM EDT
Beer Slayer: I'd get togther with other members and sue the club. What the hell--take your money they tell you that you can't come and shoot. Even on a weekend!!!! Screw 'em.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 12:46:25 PM EDT
If I shot at the competence level of the majority of the LEO's I've obseerved, I wouldn't want anyone watching, either. The LEO's I know who can shoot on a par with me, or better, (and there are certainly some) do so in spite of the training given by their departments. Most of them, however, don't compete, and it's no wonder. I do find interesting, and significant, that most of us don't consider LEO's to be civilians. They are, of course, legally civilians, but we instictively lump them with military. Hmmmmm?
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 1:00:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:44:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2001 6:46:31 PM EDT by mattja]
The Halo Group is located just a few miles from where I live and I would love to take their tactical AR15 and sniper courses. However, no non-LEO's allowed except for basic shotgun and handgun I think. Bummer. I take that back, they offer tactical rifle but not police sniper or SMG classes.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 6:52:08 PM EDT
Civilian= non-military including LE.
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 9:39:04 PM EDT
yeah im kinda pissed that i couldnt go top a HK mp5 course becouse im not le/gov oh well
Link Posted: 5/9/2001 10:46:39 PM EDT
03 your right!Man that burns my a55 when I here that.I always have a conversation with them when they call me a civilian.I ask them how they keep a LE job and be in the military at the same time.I also tell the smart ones you can quit your job anytime you want to.That makes you a civilian.If you can prove no criminal back ground you should get equal training if you are so inclined.
Link Posted: 5/10/2001 5:48:30 AM EDT
I seriously doubt HK and Glock are in some sort of conspiracy with LEOs to insure civilians don't know tactics. Why would gun makers care? The liability issue is most likely the reason. As far as using the word "civilian" to describe non-LEOs, it seems to me that many times folks use "civilian" to describe any person outside a certain group of individuals who are the topic at issue. "Civilian: a person not on active duty with a military, police, or firefighting organization." Random House Webster's Dictionary, 1993
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