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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/21/2005 9:43:17 AM EDT
So I get a call about a serious road rage incident that just happened. Figures, I just drove through that particular intersection a few minutes earlier.

Anyway, good guy (GG) is driving when this work van cuts him off. GG honks, probably delivered the 1 finger salute or something as well. The van suddenly brakes and manuvers in a way where the GG has to stop also. GG says that these two hispanic dudes were out of the van with in a blink off an eye with crow bar in hand coming towards his car.

Well, these two retarded ass bags are set on delivering some hurt but were clueless to the fact that GG has a CCW. GG draws down on them and was yellin out commands ("STOP"). Of course these "tough guys" are practically running into eachother trying to get back into their van. GG called us at that point.

The van took off but GG got a plate. we had about 4 cars looking for these dickheads. I went to go interview the GG. I asked him where the gun is (he was in his car), he said it was in his council. he gave me his CPL & ID, and told me what happened.

I gave him a big 'ol "ATTA BOY" props. Told him he did everything right. I asked what he was carrying and if i could check it out. He had a HK P2000 .40 with a tac light on it. I had just bought one a 2 months earlier so we shot the shat for a bit and told him I'd be following up with him on the case and sent him on his way.

I'm hoping I can get the crow bar gringos in custody in a couple days or so on felony charges.

Anyway, thought you guys would like the story.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:46:03 AM EDT
Great going on his part (and yours)! Hope you catch the perps. Chatting with him was probably also a good way to help him settle down after that.....

Jeez, you didn't shoot his dog? -almost obligatory remark, huh?

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:47:25 AM EDT
I was with you right until the whole "Stop" thing.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:56:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
I'm hoping I can get the crow bar gringos in custody in a couple days or so on felony charges.

Anyway, thought you guys would like the story.


Glad to hear about it turning out that way. On a technical note, gringos are whiteys not Hispanics.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:07:34 AM EDT
Why did you check out his gun?
Interest or run the serial number?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:16:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:19:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 10:21:42 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
I was with you right until the whole "Stop" thing.



It's a CYA thing, always always do it.
It's easier to sit in court or tell a DA: my car was boxed in I couldn't drive out of the situation so I pulled my gun and yelled at them to stop, they kept comming and I was afraid they were going to kill me so I shot.

VS

They got out of the car with a crowbar so I pulled out my gun and started shooting.

By giving the commands, be it stop or drop the weapon your adding a bit of cover yer ass. You also now have witnesses around that can say I heard him yell XXX before he shot, well if people are around. I've also heard it said not oly to command them to stop, but to command them to drop whatever weapon, by name that they have, so yell drop the knife or drop the gun. Even if the shooting is justifiable some DA's will make a point of if you gave any commands to the perp. Somone posted an artical a couple months back that Ayoob wrote about one such incident.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:27:41 AM EDT
This is a great pro-LEO story and I'm glad you told us. I wish more of the good things that LEO's do every day were given as much attention as the occasional bad thing. I wish we could hear more stories like this, but the media likes to focus on the bad stuff, and usually paints LEO in a bad light. Nice going, and it's good to know there are pro-RKBA officers out there protecting our civil liberties and looking out for the public interest.
Cheers!
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:28:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
I'm hoping I can get the crow bar gringos in custody in a couple days or so on felony charges.

Anyway, thought you guys would like the story.


Glad to hear about it turning out that way. On a technical note, gringos are whiteys not Hispanics.



Cut him some slack, he's from Michigan!
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:29:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
This is a great pro-LEO story and I'm glad you told us. I wish more of the good things that LEO's do every day were given as much attention as the occasional bad thing. I wish we could hear more stories like this, but the media likes to focus on the bad stuff, and usually paints LEO in a bad light. Nice going, and it's good to know there are pro-RKBA officers out there protecting our civil liberties and looking out for the public interest.
Cheers!


+1
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:34:12 AM EDT
Dun chu know that's i'm loco Esse?!

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:55:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By m24shooter:

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
I'm hoping I can get the crow bar gringos in custody in a couple days or so on felony charges.

Anyway, thought you guys would like the story.


Glad to hear about it turning out that way. On a technical note, gringos are whiteys not Hispanics.



Cut him some slack, he's from Michigan!


Yeah, I know. That's why I tried to make it civil. At least I didn't make any jokes about him being a holdout from the UHaul Army.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:59:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
This offends me that you would profile people who drive a work van. Those of us who drive work vans are not all criminals, and I do not appreciate you looking for work vans.



+1. If you see a white service van with ladders, a NRA and 5.56 sticker and "AR15M4A3" plate number don't try and stop me.

Just kidding, pull me over and let me know where we will be meeting up for a beer to shoot the shit.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 12:01:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Dun chu know that's i'm loco Esse?!




nice one homes.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 12:09:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By Sub-MOA:
I was with you right until the whole "Stop" thing.



It's a CYA thing, always always do it.
It's easier to sit in court or tell a DA: my car was boxed in I couldn't drive out of the situation so I pulled my gun and yelled at them to stop, they kept comming and I was afraid they were going to kill me so I shot.

VS

They got out of the car with a crowbar so I pulled out my gun and started shooting.

By giving the commands, be it stop or drop the weapon your adding a bit of cover yer ass. You also now have witnesses around that can say I heard him yell XXX before he shot, well if people are around. I've also heard it said not oly to command them to stop, but to command them to drop whatever weapon, by name that they have, so yell drop the knife or drop the gun. Even if the shooting is justifiable some DA's will make a point of if you gave any commands to the perp. Somone posted an artical a couple months back that Ayoob wrote about one such incident.



cant you shoot first and yell "STOP" after

yea, if the BGs are walking slow or there is distance, best to try to deter em without escallating the violence

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 4:30:28 PM EDT
Thanks for sharing thecleaner, hope you catch those yo-yo's.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:21:59 PM EDT
Nice to hear that the GG was OK, & the Gringos had to change their pants!

Is it possible to ask where "abouts" in MI this happened?

Keep up the good work & Stay Safe!

Tall Shadow
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:27:43 PM EDT
Damn, the last Michigan cop that pulled me over, laughed his ass off when he saw my gun.

Beretta 950 jetfire
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gordon_freeman:
Dun chu know that's i'm loco Esse?!




If you can pull off your undies without removing your pants, then I'll really be impressed...
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 8:40:45 PM EDT by Sukebe]
I'm not sure what makes the good guy a "good guy". So he gets cutt off. He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem. Now he has to pull his piece because he either can't control himself or he wants to be confrontational and irresponsible. Carrying a firearm requires a cool head and the good sense to avoid confrontations. He may be a good guy but he's a dumbass as well.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:54:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I'm not sure what makes the good guy a "good guy". So he gets cutt off. He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem. Now he has to pull his piece because he either can't control himself or he wants to be confrontational and irresponsible. Carrying a firearm requires a cool head and the good sense to avoid confrontations. He may be a good guy but he's a dumbass as well.



Throwing the bird VS. Charging with a crowbar....hmmmmm. Yep... I thought it over, and I'd be much more willing to defend my physical state when someone is coming at me with a crowbar.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:59:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I'm not sure what makes the good guy a "good guy". So he gets cutt off. He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem. Now he has to pull his piece because he either can't control himself or he wants to be confrontational and irresponsible being attacked by two men with deadly weapons after being forced to a stop on the road. Carrying a firearm requires a cool head and the good sense to avoid confrontations. He may be a good guy but he's a dumbass as well.



I agree with you that if he threw a finger he needs to relearn what a CCW is all about. I go out of my way as far as possible to avoid a confrontation. Like most humans though I do on accasion lay on the horn when some asshole is about to hit my car trying to force their way over. That's not an invitation to force me off the road and attack me with iron implements.

I've been honked at too a few times in my life. Even been flashed a finger once but never once did I decide to force the person off the road and attack them. That's what makes them the bad guys and this man the good guy. He needs to better control himself but they were in the wrong all down the line period.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:02:45 PM EDT
For what it's worth, he shouldn't have flipped the bird but sounded within his rights when forced to stop and confronted.

Oh, and BTW...it's "console" not 'council'.....unless he was having an exchange of opinions with his handgun.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:10:26 PM EDT
Good thing the GG
wasn't a fan of the Violent Femmes...
LOL
or was he..???

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:12:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I'm not sure what makes the good guy a "good guy". So he gets cutt off. He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem. Now he has to pull his piece because he either can't control himself or he wants to be confrontational and irresponsible. Carrying a firearm requires a cool head and the good sense to avoid confrontations. He may be a good guy but he's a dumbass as well.



Throwing the bird VS. Charging with a crowbar....hmmmmm. Yep... I thought it over, and I'd be much more willing to defend my physical state when someone is coming at me with a crowbar.




I think you are missing my point Rob. Of coure the guy had a right to defend himself at that point. But his reaction to getting cut off may have given these yahoos just enough provocation that they felt justified in bringing a crowbar to a gun fight. You can't control other peoples drivng habits no matter how many times you honk your horn or how many fingers you wave at them. You are only going to escalate a situation that you should be trying to avoid. Especially if you are carrying a gun.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:34:29 PM EDT
anyway, back to the point...


cool story and thanks for sharing! And thank you for what you do.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:08:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 10:17:10 PM EDT by thecleaner]
OK, SO MUCH TO RESPOND TO, HERE GOES:


Great going on his part (and yours)! Hope you catch the perps. Chatting with him was probably also a good way to help him settle down after that.....


THANK YOU!! He was pretty collected about the whole deal. He conducted himself like a gentleman. I enjoyed talking with him. And YES!! Those ass hats are soon to be OWNED!!


Why did you check out his gun?
Interest or run the serial number?



Just had to go there didn't you. STFU! I stated that while talking/interviewing GG, his gun was in the console the whole time. I ASKED if i could check it out towards the end because we're both "gun guys". I was interested to see it because as stated I recently purchased the same gun. On the other hand if it were a somewhat different situation and I DID run the numbers and it so happened I could return a stolen gun to it owner....? I'm still the asshole right?


I was with you right until the whole "Stop" thing.


He did EVERYTHING RIGHT! As somebody posted, It's CYA. He was able to collectively project, articulate & justify his actions with great detail. Lame or not, the results of this situation is what we all champion on this board. In terms of CCW/CPL, he accomplished just that. STOP BEING MR. SPOCK.


This offends me that you would profile people who drive a work van. Those of us who drive work vans are not all criminals, and I do not appreciate you looking for work vans.


The desrciption of the vehicle was a "WORK VAN". also described as having latters on it. Latter ownership are clear signs of criminal activity.


On a technical note, gringos are whiteys not Hispanics.


OOPS!!! well, it sounded kewl.


He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem


1) I said "PROBABLY", I'm not sure if that is the case. 2) (If that is the case) He also didn't commit a crime now did he?


Good thing the GG
wasn't a fan of the Violent Femmes...
LOL
or was he..???



I asked if he was. Thankfully for his sake he was wasn't. Otherwise he'd be cuffed in the car, windows up forced to listen to Winger

Anyway, like I said, this situation is what we all champion for; He was able to avoid a serious crime & even better, protect his safety by exercising his rights in a responsible manner. Even on the police end of it; he was treated with respect and given a high five for conduct.

BTW. I have many neato stories if you'd all like me to share on a regular basis?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 10:29:53 PM EDT
thecleaner
You are OK.
you can take it
and dish it out too.
Glad you were on the
side of the GG.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I'm not sure what makes the good guy a "good guy". So he gets cutt off. He overreacts and throws the finger. He's part of the problem. Now he has to pull his piece because he either can't control himself or he wants to be confrontational and irresponsible. Carrying a firearm requires a cool head and the good sense to avoid confrontations. He may be a good guy but he's a dumbass as well.



Throwing the bird VS. Charging with a crowbar....hmmmmm. Yep... I thought it over, and I'd be much more willing to defend my physical state when someone is coming at me with a crowbar.




I think you are missing my point Rob. Of coure the guy had a right to defend himself at that point. But his reaction to getting cut off may have given these yahoos just enough provocation that they felt justified in bringing a crowbar to a gun fight. You can't control other peoples drivng habits no matter how many times you honk your horn or how many fingers you wave at them. You are only going to escalate a situation that you should be trying to avoid. Especially if you are carrying a gun.



Nah, I understand where you were going with the point man. With the illustration of how the whole situation went down and turned out, I was focusing more on the action that took place instead of what could have prevented it. I agree, a calm head may have prevented it.

However, in the heat of some traffic situations even I get incredibly frustrated by people that are blatantly rude drivers.. I would have probably flashed him the bird too (carrying or not).

My point goes back to the old "sticks and stones" saying.. A flash of a finger shouldn't provoke anyone to charge with a crowbar, so in this instance, a defensive weapon to fend off someone with REAL ugly intentions AND having it's sole purpose dissolve the situation safely is a +1 for concealed carry.

RS
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:51:42 PM EDT


Yeah, I know. That's why I tried to make it civil. At least I didn't make any jokes about him being a holdout from the UHaul Army.



Heard that. Are they de-populating that state?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:58:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 12:00:59 AM EDT by topgunpilot20]

Originally Posted By thecleaner:
So I get a call about a serious road rage incident that just happened. Figures, I just drove through that particular intersection a few minutes earlier.

Anyway, good guy (GG) is driving when this work van cuts him off. GG honks, probably delivered the 1 finger salute or something as well. The van suddenly brakes and manuvers in a way where the GG has to stop also. GG says that these two hispanic dudes were out of the van with in a blink off an eye with crow bar in hand coming towards his car.

Well, these two retarded ass bags are set on delivering some hurt but were clueless to the fact that GG has a CCW. GG draws down on them and was yellin out commands ("STOP"). Of course these "tough guys" are practically running into eachother trying to get back into their van. GG called us at that point.

The van took off but GG got a plate. we had about 4 cars looking for these dickheads. I went to go interview the GG. I asked him where the gun is (he was in his car), he said it was in his council. he gave me his CPL & ID, and told me what happened.

I gave him a big 'ol "ATTA BOY" props. Told him he did everything right. I asked what he was carrying and if i could check it out. He had a HK P2000 .40 with a tac light on it. I had just bought one a 2 months earlier so we shot the shat for a bit and told him I'd be following up with him on the case and sent him on his way.

I'm hoping I can get the crow bar gringos in custody in a couple days or so on felony charges.

Anyway, thought you guys would like the story.

thecleaner is speculating, not saying he actually did. people are condemning the GG because of something he might have done, but there is no proof. Besides, how would the BGs tell if someone in a car behind them flipped them the bird at night? would have had to been out the window--but there is nothing saying this happened.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
This offends me that you would profile people who drive a work van. Those of us who drive work vans are not all criminals, and I do not appreciate you looking for work vans.



Bush hates people in work vans lol
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:19:47 AM EDT
Thanks, thecleaner. Good to hear a LEO perspective on one of these things.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:21:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CSM:

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
This is a great pro-LEO story and I'm glad you told us. I wish more of the good things that LEO's do every day were given as much attention as the occasional bad thing. I wish we could hear more stories like this, but the media likes to focus on the bad stuff, and usually paints LEO in a bad light. Nice going, and it's good to know there are pro-RKBA officers out there protecting our civil liberties and looking out for the public interest.
Cheers!


+1



Another big +1. Great story and thanks for your service.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 12:46:22 AM EDT
Thanks thecleaner for being a good guy.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:08:03 AM EDT
Did he get out of the car? Did he use cover ? Any tactical lessons?

R
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:42:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RAINBOW6:


Yeah, I know. That's why I tried to make it civil. At least I didn't make any jokes about him being a holdout from the UHaul Army.



Heard that. Are they de-populating that state?


They did in the 80s.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 2:02:29 AM EDT
How does the P2000 compare to a USP40C?
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