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Posted: 9/18/2009 11:06:28 AM EST
I have been wanting to enlist and this caught my eye when going through the Airforce careers and saw Pararescue Apprentice, can anyone tell me anything about it? Asvab score, difficulty etc?

I also saw SERE school,seems out of place, i thought it was more for Army/marines.Is SERE school an option to choose when making an Airforce contract? Do you need a high asvab as well? Can anyone tell me about it?

I would appreciate it.
Liberation
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:14:50 AM EST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CROKucO84vA

Pure bad-asses, and all in the name of rescue.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:14:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 11:18:18 AM EST by Liberation]
Originally Posted By spc-ops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CROKucO84vA

Pure bad-asses, and all in the name of rescue.



Hey thanks for the video, do you know anything about the school, difficulty in getting in?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:24:12 AM EST
All I can say is you better be in great shape they'll run your dick into the dirt.....and they are one of the AF badasses....forward air controller is another....
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:26:03 AM EST
You can find answers to everything you need to know here:

http://www.specialtactics.com/

I'd recommend reading a lot and saying very little as much as is possible if you go to their forums.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:27:19 AM EST
Pedros are the shit. Its an attrition-heavy school. Security Forces is full of dropped Pararescue.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:27:49 AM EST
I'm sorry I don't.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:31:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 11:37:26 AM EST by BenWa]
Read the book None Braver excellent book about pararescue in Afghanistan.

I second the pure badass vote!

ETA: Mail Call about PJs
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:35:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 11:38:01 AM EST by Shadow4Golf]
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:38:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:39:14 AM EST
Air Force recruiter would be the place to go instead of Arf GD.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 11:41:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 11:43:39 AM EST by Liberation]
Originally Posted By joker581:
Pararescue is no joke. Don't do it on a whim without some serious preparation unless you want to end up guarding a gate somewhere.


Oh I know, I was just tossing the idea around of careers, I saw it and was like damn, that is something to put your mind too. If I ever did I would physically prepare for a year before I would even join up.

My only question is this, with attrition so high is it instructors DQ'ing you, or is it your mind the reason it is 90% attrition?
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:01:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Liberation:
Originally Posted By spc-ops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CROKucO84vA

Pure bad-asses, and all in the name of rescue.



Hey thanks for the video, do you know anything about the school, difficulty in getting in?

Last I heard, PJ's had a 90% washout rate... that should tell you something.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:04:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:10:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 12:13:11 PM EST by Liberation]
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Liberation:
My only question is this, with attrition so high is it instructors DQ'ing you, or is it your mind the reason it is 90% attrition?


Both, plus the high potential for injuries.


I appreciate it...it was something I was looking into. Now another quick question, you pick an MOS and Pararescue indoc is separate correct? So I could find a job I like, i.e security forces, someone mentioned it, I want to be in LE so it may be something to look at. And if I give Pararescue a go, but wash out, I am allowed to go back to my MOS? I would hate to sign up and get put "the needs of the airforce"

I apologize military service is all new to me, figured I need to give back to Ol'Glory and Lady liberty so here I am.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:11:17 PM EST
If you want it bad enough do it right.

Enlist first with a guaranteed job you think you will like. It could be a mechanic, dental, office job, whatever. After you are in for about a year put in a cross train package to go into Pararescue or SERE. Jobs like that have an extremely high washout rate and it is nice to know that if you wash out you have a good job to go back to. If you go straight into either and washout the AF sticks you in the first job opening they find. That might even be sucking shit out of the toilets on the plane.

Yes, I am AF and yes I work with these types of guys if you don't believe my advice.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:11:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 12:21:51 PM EST by ColtM4]
Originally Posted By Liberation:
I have been wanting to enlist and this caught my eye when going through the Airforce careers and saw Pararescue Apprentice, can anyone tell me anything about it? Asvab score, difficulty etc?

I also saw SERE school,seems out of place, i thought it was more for Army/marines.Is SERE school an option to choose when making an Airforce contract? Do you need a high asvab as well? Can anyone tell me about it?

I would appreciate it.
Liberation


Dude those guys are insane, I think the failure rate is over 90%
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:15:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 12:18:15 PM EST by 0699TeufelHnd]
Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By Liberation:
Originally Posted By spc-ops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CROKucO84vA

Pure bad-asses, and all in the name of rescue.



Hey thanks for the video, do you know anything about the school, difficulty in getting in?

Last I heard, PJ's had a 90% washout rate... that should tell you something.


If that's true (the 90% washout rate), it's probably as much from the lack of toughness of the pool of candidates as it is the toughness of the school. The average Air Force Basic graduate is much less physically and mentally tough as your average Army or Marine Basic/Boot Camp graduate.

Flame on, but the Air Force recruiter that worked in the office next to mine complained about this problem to me on many occasions.

Now go talk to an Air Force recruiter and find out the real deal.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:16:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Liberation:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Pararescue is no joke. Don't do it on a whim without some serious preparation unless you want to end up guarding a gate somewhere.


Oh I know, I was just tossing the idea around of careers, I saw it and was like damn, that is something to put your mind too. If I ever did I would physically prepare for a year before I would even join up.

My only question is this, with attrition so high is it instructors DQ'ing you, or is it your mind the reason it is 90% attrition?
I knew quite a few of those guys back in the day. That's not an idea you just toss around. In my opinion those men are heroes for just completing the training

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:21:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By spc-ops:
I'm sorry I don't.


With a user name like yours we thought you'd know all about it, being a quiet professional.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:22:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By rwhmachine:

Originally Posted By Liberation:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Pararescue is no joke. Don't do it on a whim without some serious preparation unless you want to end up guarding a gate somewhere.


Oh I know, I was just tossing the idea around of careers, I saw it and was like damn, that is something to put your mind too. If I ever did I would physically prepare for a year before I would even join up.

My only question is this, with attrition so high is it instructors DQ'ing you, or is it your mind the reason it is 90% attrition?
I knew quite a few of those guys back in the day. That's not an idea you just toss around. In my opinion those men are heroes for just completing the training



Oh no don't get me wrong, I was tossing around different careers and saw that. Trust me, before I even posted I kind of figured it was similiar to BUD/S, and wasn't something you hopped and skipped into.

However I do like the EOD Mos or security forces, I didn't know you could put in for indoc after you have already been in for a year that makes choosing a career I like, and preparing if I choose to do so, that much easier.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:35:13 PM EST
This is from Stewsmith.com, Stew is a former Navy SEAL.
"I am not sure which branch of service I would like to join, but I do know I want to do something in the Special Ops. Which one is the toughest and best trained?"

This is the question I normally do not answer as the only people, in my opinion, who can answer which training programs are the best or toughest as those who have done them all. We all have opinions on which are the hardest and they are usually the ones we selected so any answer you get is going to be prejudiced. Now, I know a few guys who have done SEALs, Rangers, and Army Special Forces and some who have done USMC RECON, SEALs, and Army SF. These guys all say the same thing; they are all a bit different and equally as challenging as the other. Each Special Ops unit (Army SF, Air Force PJ, Navy SEALs, USMC RECON) focus on different missions, though they can jointly work together. Besides, we are all on the same team in the end. There have been many times in conflict that each of these units saved each others skins by assisting to wipe out an overwhelming opposing force.


Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:36:42 PM EST
SERE is relevant to ANYONE who is forward deployed and in harms way.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:47:26 PM EST
Here's a show about AF guys at SERE. http://www.hulu.com/survival-school
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 12:52:29 PM EST
Greenfeet are GTG..
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:03:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 1:04:39 PM EST by RickNC]
I am in the process of enlisting into the AF reserves as a loadmaster. All aircrew attend sere school. I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:03:53 PM EST
I spent a week with them at their Orientation Course at Kirkland AFB, New Mexico.

The PJs I met called their pipeline "Superman School." They are not joking.

Failure is not an option, surrender is unfathomable, and there is no such thing as quit.

There is nothing they despise more than a quitter, even mentioning quitting or failure will earn you and your battle buddy a smoking.

If you can run like a marathon runner, do PT like a machine, have a good head and would rather die than fail you might have what it takes to be a PJ.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:06:43 PM EST
I have spoken to some PJ'S when I was in the USAF.
I also spoke to one of our local Air Ambulance guys who is a former PJ.
This is what I have learned over the years from all of them.

The AF PJ's are no joke. Their motto "That others may live" is not just a mission statement on a patch, it is their life.

Here is there Job description as I understand it:

Infil to the down pilot by any means possible.
Kayak, mountain climb, run, walk, scuba, parachute, submarine, Quad, repel, day or night, and in the worst possible weather.
Locate the down pilot, give him first aid up to and including removing his spleen.
Stabalize the patient for transport.
Fend off the enemy
Live off the land for up to 30 days, and if needed carry the pilot out on your back.
Pilots can't call 9-1-1 when they crash, they call PJ's.

Prospective PJ's attend a place they affectionately call Superman U.

Wake up early every day for some brisk PT - Then breakfast (Lots of calories cause you going to need it.)
The remaining morning will be swimming (Lots of laps and treading water) - Then lunch
The rest of the day, cross country running (Over hill over dale etc) - Then dinner
Repeat for ten weeks.

Class of 40 becomes class of 8, maybe.

Cost estimates are 2 million, per PJ, in 2 years worth of training.

It takes 6 actual years to become a PJ journeyman.

Their medical classes rate them at about the equilvelant of a Physicians Assistant (PA)

They lose 1-2 PJ's a year in training and actual deployments gone bad, such as A/C crashes or other accidents.

At any given time, there are only about 110-120 of those fully trained PJ's out there in the world.

It's a small group.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:22:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am in the process of enlisting into the AF reserves as a loadmaster. All aircrew attend sere school. I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.


You might get an eye opener soon my young lad, of course the AF is more PC now than it was many years ago....
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:24:27 PM EST
Seriously go find an army or marine recruiter before joing the AF. You might want to get promoted on like actual job performance and such and not a F********************************************­*******8MMMM*********************************­********************* test...Plus they have so much more oportunitiies and tons more stuff than the AF...
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:27:25 PM EST
I was fortunate enough to participate in an extraction exercise with the PJ's in Iraq back in 03/04. My buddy & I played the role of downed pilots & the pick up was staged in this abandoned section of BIAP, extremely cool. They came in on two birds, one flying perimeter defense & the other dropped the PJ's in to extract us. Some serious guys, no doubt...but all were cool as hell. If you can make it through the training it would make for one hell of a career, as already stated though, the wash out rate is very high.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:31:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:
I spent a week with them at their Orientation Course at Kirkland AFB, New Mexico.

The PJs I met called their pipeline "Superman School." They are not joking.

Failure is not an option, surrender is unfathomable, and there is no such thing as quit.

There is nothing they despise more than a quitter, even mentioning quitting or failure will earn you and your battle buddy a smoking.

If you can run like a marathon runner, do PT like a machine, have a good head and would rather die than fail you might have what it takes to be a PJ.


This.

Besides all of the physical and mental stress, you have to be a world class EMT.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:32:40 PM EST
This should give you a good idea of Pararescue

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Pitsenbarger
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:40:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:41:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By brackins23:
Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am in the process of enlisting into the AF reserves as a loadmaster. All aircrew attend sere school. I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.


You might get an eye opener soon my young lad, of course the AF is more PC now than it was many years ago....



AF SERE is still all about some hands on learning...;)

ANd whatever else they feel necessary to accomplish training. All I can say is pray you don't go through during the winter.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:47:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am in the process of enlisting into the AF reserves as a loadmaster. All aircrew attend sere school. I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.


SERE is SERE.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:49:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.

You are in for the rudest awakening of your life if you believe that.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:52:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am in the process of enlisting into the AF reserves as a loadmaster. All aircrew attend sere school. I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.


Being a trained AF SERE instructor and attending an AF SERE course are two completely different animals.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:53:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2009 1:56:16 PM EST by Hawkeye66]
Originally Posted By Liberation:
I have been wanting to enlist and this caught my eye when going through the Airforce careers and saw Pararescue Apprentice, can anyone tell me anything about it? Asvab score, difficulty etc?

I also saw SERE school,seems out of place, i thought it was more for Army/marines.Is SERE school an option to choose when making an Airforce contract? Do you need a high asvab as well? Can anyone tell me about it?

I would appreciate it.
Liberation


PJ...think ironman tri-athlete crossed with ER medic, while run forever to you and then bring you back to life. AF SERE school is mainly for aircrew and how to survive to pick up point; you have to remember the Army SERE guys live in the spec ops world different training for a different mission.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 1:56:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:

Originally Posted By RickNC:
I am pretty sure this school has nothing on the Army Sere course.

You are in for the rudest awakening of your life if you believe that.

Yeah, no shit.

The first portion of the school is fun, if the weather is nice. The rest absolutely sucks.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 2:21:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Liberation:
Originally Posted By joker581:
Originally Posted By Liberation:
My only question is this, with attrition so high is it instructors DQ'ing you, or is it your mind the reason it is 90% attrition?


Both, plus the high potential for injuries.


I appreciate it...it was something I was looking into. Now another quick question, you pick an MOS and Pararescue indoc is separate correct? So I could find a job I like, i.e security forces, someone mentioned it, I want to be in LE so it may be something to look at. And if I give Pararescue a go, but wash out, I am allowed to go back to my MOS? I would hate to sign up and get put "the needs of the airforce"

No. You pick your AFSC when you sign up. All jobs (including ParaRescue) have an AFSC in the AF. It's not like the Navy SEALS. It's pretty much guaranteed as long as you're able to pass the training. Assuming you can pass the training the only thing that will get you a different AFSC is some catastrophic event, like an entire squadron of cops getting busted for drug trafficking. If you fail out of your chosen AFSC then you go to wherever the AF needs you. If you sign up for another AFSC and then decide you want to go ParaRescue while in BMT, you are given the option, assuming you didn't come in as Security Forces. If you came in SF, you're stuck with that. You could also come in "open general" and then you're stuck with wherever the AF needs you.

ParaRescue training is a lot more than just Indoc also. Indoc is just your first 10 weeks. Total training time is up to 18 months.

Link Posted: 9/18/2009 2:22:52 PM EST
Another thing to consider as well, if you go SF(security forces), and you like to travel, you could go to the Phoenix Ravens.

They travel with AF planes all over the world keeping everything safe.

They have some pretty crazy stories too.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 6:16:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By houstoncamaro:
Another thing to consider as well, if you go SF(security forces), and you like to travel, you could go to the Phoenix Ravens.

They travel with AF planes all over the world keeping everything safe.

They have some pretty crazy stories too.

Link Posted: 9/19/2009 8:20:15 PM EST
Go talk to an AF recruiter but be warned there is a very long wait for PJ training, some times years. Very high washout rate and be assured if you get in you will likely get to experiance SERE training first hand. 2 year training pipeline I believe. The high washout rate starts in initial training like most schools but the difficult thing is you can not fail any of the other schools. (i.e. a Ranger can fail freefall schools and get sent back to the battalion, same with a SF soldier. PJ's must pass, a failure = washout from PJ training)

I have met a number of PJ's and worked with one or two. Great warriors.
I know of one guy who had such a long wait he finally gave up on getting in and moved on. Good scores, great physical shape and sister was an AF officer and he still could not get accepted.

Not trying to be discouraging just know what you are getting into. If you talk to a recruiter that deals with AF special operations they will be straight with you in most cases.
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