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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/28/2005 2:17:16 PM EDT


What is the Jews view about what happen after death? I'll admitt I yet to read through the whole Old Testament and would like some input from the Jewish brothers here.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:25:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

What is the Jews view about what happen after death? I'll admitt I yet to read through the whole Old Testament and would like some input from the Jewish brothers here.



It depends, The soul goes through a purification that lasts no more than 12 months. Sometimes the soul or a part of the soul will return to the earth and be reincarnated, sometimes the soul moves on to the higher levels. There are seven levels to heaven (Ever heard the expresion "7th heaven") each level with a higher revelation of the divine. The soul will unltimately rejoin with the source and become part of the whole and no longer be an individual manifistation of the whole.

That is the ultra simple version.
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:35:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

What is the Jews view about what happen after death? I'll admitt I yet to read through the whole Old Testament and would like some input from the Jewish brothers here.



It depends, The soul goes through a purification that lasts no more than 12 months. Sometimes the soul or a part of the soul will return to the earth and be reincarnated, sometimes the soul moves on to the higher levels. There are seven levels to heaven (Ever heard the expresion "7th heaven") each level with a higher revelation of the divine. The soul will unltimately rejoin with the source and become part of the whole and no longer be an individual manifistation of the whole.

That is the ultra simple version.



I've read about the different levels of heaven but can you give me the scrpture where the rest of what you said can be found?
Link Posted: 8/28/2005 2:55:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2005 2:56:39 PM EDT by neshomamench]

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

What is the Jews view about what happen after death? I'll admitt I yet to read through the whole Old Testament and would like some input from the Jewish brothers here.



It depends, The soul goes through a purification that lasts no more than 12 months. Sometimes the soul or a part of the soul will return to the earth and be reincarnated, sometimes the soul moves on to the higher levels. There are seven levels to heaven (Ever heard the expresion "7th heaven") each level with a higher revelation of the divine. The soul will unltimately rejoin with the source and become part of the whole and no longer be an individual manifistation of the whole.

That is the ultra simple version.



I've read about the different levels of heaven but can you give me the scrpture where the rest of what you said can be found?



You asked the Jewish view on these things, not for me to prove it. For the most part you will have never even heard of the scriptures that contain this information. While it is all alluded to in the Part of the Hebrew bible you have, much of the information is in works not part of Chrsitianity.

What I will tell you is the Hebrew word shamayim is plural (What you would call "Heavens" )it is the world used in the Hebrew Bible when ever the domain of the spiritual is talked of(The Chrsitian concept of Heaven is alien to Judaism) Job speaks of reincarnation Behold, all these things does God do -- twice, even three times with a man -- to bring his soul back from the pit that he may be enlightened with the light of the living. (Job 33:29) There are also some other references.

For more in deapth information on the subjects Shaar HaGilgulim by the Ari is the book of reincarnation as well as the Talmud and the Zohar provide information on these subjects.

Link Posted: 8/28/2005 4:38:36 PM EDT


I'm not trying to pick apart your belifes. I am looking for the JPOV and if I ask for Scripture to back it up it is because I'd like to check it out myself.

I belive Jesus was a Jew and him being a Jew he belived in (I'm sure) the Heaven that Jews belive in. I want to know all I can about that place!

You don't don't have anything to prove to me and I'm not questioning or challanging you to "prove it". I just want more info.

As to reincarnation I kind of always thought it was part of "THE" plan because the Bible speaks of reincarnation when in the New Testament Jesus said that John was Elijah returned.

I don't conform to "the norm" of Christian thinking because I have read some things that don't go along with it. I try to find out as much as I can and from different view points.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 7:12:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

I've read about the different levels of heaven but can you give me the scrpture where the rest of what you said can be found?



You asked the Jewish view on these things, not for me to prove it. For the most part you will have never even heard of the scriptures that contain this information. While it is all alluded to in the Part of the Hebrew bible you have, much of the information is in works not part of Chrsitianity.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but Judaism doesn't really work the way Chrsitianity does in requiring an authorized text to support a doctrinal statement.

Judaism is often based on Oral Tradition, and (I forget the correct terminology) relies on mystical "precepts" to make up their doctrine.

I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand."



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 8:13:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 8:13:51 AM EDT by neshomamench]

Originally Posted By garandman:


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Judaism doesn't really work the way Chrsitianity does in requiring an authorized text to support a doctrinal statement.

Judaism is often based on Oral Tradition, and (I forget the correct terminology) relies on mystical "precepts" to make up their doctrine.

I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand."




Glad to correct you. Our Texts are autherized in our faith. End of story. Has nothing to do with "you goyim wouldnt understand", just as you have heard thus type of response enuf, I have heard yours. You have made the assertion of what is autherized and what is not. For your faith that is your perogotive, but you cant do that for a faith that is not yours.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:36:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 9:37:06 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

by garandman:
I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand."




Glad to correct you. Our Texts are autherized in our faith. End of story. Has nothing to do with "you goyim wouldnt understand", just as you have heard thus type of response enuf, I have heard yours. You have made the assertion of what is autherized and what is not. For your faith that is your perogotive, but you cant do that for a faith that is not yours.



I'm not saying you don't view your own texts as authorized. That would be silly.

I'm saying you don't tend to quote chapter and verse when talking to the goys.

When you say something like I have "never even heard of the scriptures that contain this information" its the same as saying we aren't even educated enuf to know where to begin. I've heard it several times from you and others - in various forms.

Christians operate differently. We open our Bibles and show anyone and everyone chapter and verse.


Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:46:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 9:48:32 AM EDT by neshomamench]

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

by garandman:
I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand."




Glad to correct you. Our Texts are autherized in our faith. End of story. Has nothing to do with "you goyim wouldnt understand", just as you have heard thus type of response enuf, I have heard yours. You have made the assertion of what is autherized and what is not. For your faith that is your perogotive, but you cant do that for a faith that is not yours.



I'm not saying you don't view your own texts as authorized. That would be silly.

I'm saying you don't tend to quote chapter and verse when talking to the goys.

When you say something like I have "never even heard of the scriptures that contain this information" its the same as saying we aren't even educated enuf to know where to begin. I've heard it several times from you and others - in various forms.

Christians operate differently. We open our Bibles and show anyone and everyone chapter and verse.





Sure you are different, You have a mandate to spread what you believe as the only truth and your scriptures fit in the palm of your hand. WE dont have to convince anyone of anything.

Take a look at this thread and you will understand why Jews do what they do, The guy asked me "What do the Jews believe on this" all that requires is an answer nothing else, then comes all the "Show me where, or point out where it says that" and then they specify "Show me where it says that in the Torah"

It was a question, it was answered, It doesnt need to be taken it any fourther than that. We dont have to justify ourselves to you, we dont care if you think we are right, and we dont have to show you. And we dont want to because then we get into the argument on what is the Torah and what isnt. It is often easier to just say, "You wouldnt understand"

If I told you you could find the answer in Shabbos 99A or something like that, what would it mean to you anyways? The Talmud is 6000 pages long, double sided ,small print, on legle sized paper. And that is just one authorative Jewish work, You want me to carry that around in my back pocket?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:52:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:
It is often easier to just say, "You wouldnt understand"



SO I was right.




If I told you you could find the answer in Shabbos 99A or something like that, what would it mean to you anyways?


It would give a basis for discussion. As it exists right now, your answers equate to you saying "its all in my head."


The Talmud is 6000 pages long, double sided ,small print, on legle sized paper. And that is just one authorative Jewish work, You want me to carry that around in my back pocket?


Personally, I like to give people a reason for why I believe what I believe, by citing my authorized texts.

I don;t expect you to agree to my authorized texts, nor do I try to assert your authorized texts are wrong.

I JUST WICH YOU"D USE THEM. Its like playing darts WITHOUT a dart board.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:03:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:


Personally, I like to give people a reason for why I believe what I believe, by citing my authorized texts.






And again, I repete, Jews have no mandate to convince anyone of anything, as a matter of fact if you go to a Rabbi and tell him you want to convert he will tell you to get lost. Christianity on the other hand claims it is the only Truth on earth and that everyone must/should accept it and you are charged with telling people about it. So of course you want to give people reasons and pull out your Bible, you have something to prove. Jews dont see it that way and the truht for Jews is just that, non-Jews have their own paths to the spiritual.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:25:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 11:25:27 AM EDT by garandman]

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

And again, I repete, Jews have no mandate to convince anyone of anything



That's fine, it just makes discussion near impossible.

Better you just have a FAQ you refer people to when they have questions.



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:37:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By garandman:


Personally, I like to give people a reason for why I believe what I believe, by citing my authorized texts.






And again, I repete, Jews have no mandate to convince anyone of anything, as a matter of fact if you go to a Rabbi and tell him you want to convert he will tell you to get lost.



Depends on the Rabbi, one of the temples in Dallas has a yearly course on Judaism for gentiles and its a requirement to enter their conversion process.

I think what might be helpful is if you don't want to help us learn, then at least point us to a place we could get our questions answered. I found several Judaism faqs online, but I don't feel qualified to recommend them. Do you know of any place we can go to learn more about the Jewish view on things like heaven and hell, etc..?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:40:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

And again, I repete, Jews have no mandate to convince anyone of anything



That's fine, it just makes discussion near impossible.

Better you just have a FAQ you refer people to when they have questions.





The only one who wants to have the discussion are Christians and as we can see it turns into a "prove it" even when it is a question. To the Jews, religion is a private matter. Nothing to talk about. I am an American, I will serve her stading shoulder to shoulder with people of all faiths in doing so, But we have no desire to discuss anything, or do we have a need as it relates to religion. If people would keep their religion to themselves we would live in a much better world. Think about it, Much of the strife of the world is caused by people fighting over something none of them can prove. Well, to the Jewish people it just makes sense to keep that to ourselves.

We only open our mouths when Chrstians (Or anyone else who would choose to do so) Try to tell us what our works say in an effort to prove how wrong we are and no matter what light you put on it that is what Christianity attempts to do.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:48:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:
To the Jews, religion is a private matter. Nothing to talk about.



Honest question -

What then is your purpose here?


We only open our mouths when Chrstians (Or anyone else who would choose to do so) Try to tell us what our works say in an effort to prove how wrong we are and no matter what light you put on it that is what Christianity attempts to do.


Well, whther you like it or not, we share the Torah / Old Testament. You've got your Talmud, and we our New testament.

But we share the Torah. You CANNOT take that away from us. We can and will comment on it, without apology.

You re free, nay ENCOURAGED to comment on it as well. But then, you say its a private matter, nothing to talk about.

Again, begging the question "Then why are you here?" This is a DISCUSSION board. Not a "you wouldn't understand / nothing to talk about" board.

Consider this my FAQ on Arfcom discussion boards.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:57:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:


Depends on the Rabbi, one of the temples in Dallas has a yearly course on Judaism for gentiles and its a requirement to enter their conversion process.

I think what might be helpful is if you don't want to help us learn, then at least point us to a place we could get our questions answered. I found several Judaism faqs online, but I don't feel qualified to recommend them. Do you know of any place we can go to learn more about the Jewish view on things like heaven and hell, etc..?




Thats not a Rabbi, and many of the people you find at a Temple (A reformed Synogogue) are not even Jewish. I dont want to get into a diatribe about what Reformed and conservative movments are and the fact that they are relitivly new (Less than 200 years old and for the most part unique to american and Europe) but they do not engage in Traditional Torah Judaism. Having said that, Even the reformed and conservative with very few exceptions DO NOT engage on any form of prosylitizing.

Now having said that, I never said someone cant convert to Judaism. And of course there would be requirments for classes and learning before you could. What I said is a Rabbi would tell you to get lost. It is Jewish Law that a Rabbi has to make it very difficult for you in order to test your sincerity. That is the first step and if the "Rabbi" does not do that your conversion is already invalid. It is my understanding that even some Reformed and Conservative do this on some level. Be advised that anything less than an Orthodox conversion is not valid. You can not qualify for the right of return laws in Israel. You can not be counted for a minyan if observant Jews are present, If the Children of such people wish to become more religious they will have to have a valid conversion, You can not be buried in an orthodox cemetary, Religious Jews will not eat your food even if you keep a kosher home, ect....

Now I understand many of the Jews on this site are not obsrvant or followers of Traditional Judaism, and I dont want to ruffle any feathers, you are my brothers and every bit as much a Jew as Moses was himself, But you know, even if you think what you are doing is right or you are convinced it is right, that what you engage in is not Traditional Judaism.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:11:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By neshomamench:
To the Jews, religion is a private matter. Nothing to talk about.



Honest question -

What then is your purpose here?


We only open our mouths when Chrstians (Or anyone else who would choose to do so) Try to tell us what our works say in an effort to prove how wrong we are and no matter what light you put on it that is what Christianity attempts to do.


Well, whther you like it or not, we share the Torah / Old Testament. You've got your Talmud, and we our New testament.

But we share the Torah. You CANNOT take that away from us. We can and will comment on it, without apology.

You re free, nay ENCOURAGED to comment on it as well. But then, you say its a private matter, nothing to talk about.

Again, begging the question "Then why are you here?" This is a DISCUSSION board. Not a "you wouldn't understand / nothing to talk about" board.

Consider this my FAQ on Arfcom discussion boards. hr


When I see things that are less than true about the Jewish perspective, I have every right to comment. It is such things that have been the beginings of Anti-Jewish sentiment fro thousands of years that have killed untold millions of Jews. That is a good enough reason for me to comment on such things.

Your right I cant take anything away from you but I disagree we share the "Old Testiment" The "Old Testiment" you have is not the same as the "Old Testiment" that the Jewish people use. If you want it to be, let us have any and all future communications about it in Hebrew only. That way we can be 100% sure that no bias in the form of translation enters the discusions we might have. That would be easier than arguing over it in a language it was not written in when so much bias exists. When a Hebrew speaking person looks at Christian translations of the Hebrew Bible, it is almost to the point of funny the things that have been changed. If you want to say "Well The Jews are not the only people on earth that speak Hebrew" Well that is true, and I tell you what, get your Hebrew expert on here. It has been my experiance with out fail EVER, that they either wont do it or they are proven to be less that honest about their abilities in the Hebrew language. Could I be proven wrong? You bet, but it hasnt happened yet.

Again, we see you asking for proof, If you ask me "What do the Jews think 2+2=" and I say "4", isnt that enough? When you say prove it, what do I have to prove? You asked a question, I answered. If you disagree, disagree, but I have no need to explain why to you. When you make an assertion, then it is different, then we might pull out the appropriate evidences.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:16:24 PM EDT
So, I'm a Jew. Raised in a Conservitive temple's hebrew school. I guess that makes me Jewish enough for the 88's but not Jewish enough for the real Jews? Whatever.

I was taught that Jews dont really know what the afterlife holds. Just have faith in a just and righteous G-d. Works for me.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:19:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:

I've read about the different levels of heaven but can you give me the scrpture where the rest of what you said can be found?



You asked the Jewish view on these things, not for me to prove it. For the most part you will have never even heard of the scriptures that contain this information. While it is all alluded to in the Part of the Hebrew bible you have, much of the information is in works not part of Chrsitianity.




Correct me if I'm wrong, but Judaism doesn't really work the way Chrsitianity does in requiring an authorized text to support a doctrinal statement.

Judaism is often based on Oral Tradition, and (I forget the correct terminology) relies on mystical "precepts" to make up their doctrine.

I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand."






____________________________________

re: "Judaism is often based on Oral Tradition, and (I forget the correct terminology) relies on mystical "precepts" to make up their doctrine."

Judaism is based upon an ethical system. You are confusing the "Oral" vs. the "Written".

I've heard this type of response often enuf to begin the interpret the Jewish position as "you goyim would never understand

That simply is not true...perhaps to you knowledge or acceptance within your own POV. However, you are in error.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:19:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Again, we see you asking for proof, If you ask me "What do the Jews think 2+2=" and I say "4", isnt that enough? When you say prove it, what do I have to prove? You asked a question, I answered. If you disagree, disagree, but I have no need to explain why to you. When you make an assertion, then it is different, then we might pull out the appropriate evidences.




No one has asked you to "prove" anything.

As an Arfcommer with over 20K posts, I can assure you nothing is every proven around here.

I'm asking that, if you are gonna engage in discussion, that you give me something more that "you wouldn't understand" or "go learn Hebrew"

Preferrably, argue from your authorized texts (if you can, or will) if for no other reason than to educate me.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigMHoff:
So, I'm a Jew. Raised in a Conservitive temple's hebrew school. I guess that makes me Jewish enough for the 88's but not Jewish enough for the real Jews? Whatever.



A man without a country. I figger I'm doing SOMETHING right if I piss off the "right" people.

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:26:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigMHoff:
So, I'm a Jew. Raised in a Conservitive temple's hebrew school. I guess that makes me Jewish enough for the 88's but not Jewish enough for the real Jews? Whatever.

I was taught that Jews dont really know what the afterlife holds. Just have faith in a just and righteous G-d. Works for me.



I am not calling anyones Jewishness into question. If your mother was Jewish you are Jewish. You are as Jewish as the most rightious Jew that ever lived, with all the rights and privaledges theirin.

What I am saying is if you are a convert, or the child of a Mother who was a convert who had less than an Orthodox Conversion, you are not Jewish and will not be a part of the things I stated above.

As far as what you were tought about the after life, That is not true at all the richness of Jewish information on the subjects is wonderful. However, what you were tought is typical of what the conservative and reformed teach.

BTW, I have a Reformed background myself, (among other things) A Jew is a Jew, but dont confuse the level of observance. Reformed and Conservative Judaism is not Traditional Torah Judaism.

Having said that, You come to my house and have an orthodox Shabbos, or if that is not something you wish, I will arange for you to have one close to where you live. If you have never experienced Orthodox Judaism, you dont know what you are missing and have no idea what the riches of the faith of your fathers hold.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:30:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By Dino:


Depends on the Rabbi, one of the temples in Dallas has a yearly course on Judaism for gentiles and its a requirement to enter their conversion process.

I think what might be helpful is if you don't want to help us learn, then at least point us to a place we could get our questions answered. I found several Judaism faqs online, but I don't feel qualified to recommend them. Do you know of any place we can go to learn more about the Jewish view on things like heaven and hell, etc..?




Thats not a Rabbi, and many of the people you find at a Temple (A reformed Synogogue) are not even Jewish. I dont want to get into a diatribe about what Reformed and conservative movments are and the fact that they are relitivly new (Less than 200 years old and for the most part unique to american and Europe) but they do not engage in Traditional Torah Judaism. Having said that, Even the reformed and conservative with very few exceptions DO NOT engage on any form of prosylitizing.

Now having said that, I never said someone cant convert to Judaism. And of course there would be requirments for classes and learning before you could. What I said is a Rabbi would tell you to get lost. It is Jewish Law that a Rabbi has to make it very difficult for you in order to test your sincerity. That is the first step and if the "Rabbi" does not do that your conversion is already invalid. It is my understanding that even some Reformed and Conservative do this on some level. Be advised that anything less than an Orthodox conversion is not valid. You can not qualify for the right of return laws in Israel. You can not be counted for a minyan if observant Jews are present, If the Children of such people wish to become more religious they will have to have a valid conversion, You can not be buried in an orthodox cemetary, Religious Jews will not eat your food even if you keep a kosher home, ect....

Now I understand many of the Jews on this site are not obsrvant or followers of Traditional Judaism, and I dont want to ruffle any feathers, you are my brothers and every bit as much a Jew as Moses was himself, But you know, even if you think what you are doing is right or you are convinced it is right, that what you engage in is not Traditional Judaism.



Actually I have no clue if they are reformed or traditional. I call it a temple because I call all Jewish Churches temples. Its a mistake on my part.

Its stuff like that which would be interesting to learn.



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:33:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By Dino:


Depends on the Rabbi, one of the temples in Dallas has a yearly course on Judaism for gentiles and its a requirement to enter their conversion process.

I think what might be helpful is if you don't want to help us learn, then at least point us to a place we could get our questions answered. I found several Judaism faqs online, but I don't feel qualified to recommend them. Do you know of any place we can go to learn more about the Jewish view on things like heaven and hell, etc..?




Thats not a Rabbi, and many of the people you find at a Temple (A reformed Synogogue) are not even Jewish. I dont want to get into a diatribe about what Reformed and conservative movments are and the fact that they are relitivly new (Less than 200 years old and for the most part unique to american and Europe) but they do not engage in Traditional Torah Judaism. Having said that, Even the reformed and conservative with very few exceptions DO NOT engage on any form of prosylitizing.

Now having said that, I never said someone cant convert to Judaism. And of course there would be requirments for classes and learning before you could. What I said is a Rabbi would tell you to get lost. It is Jewish Law that a Rabbi has to make it very difficult for you in order to test your sincerity. That is the first step and if the "Rabbi" does not do that your conversion is already invalid. It is my understanding that even some Reformed and Conservative do this on some level. Be advised that anything less than an Orthodox conversion is not valid. You can not qualify for the right of return laws in Israel. You can not be counted for a minyan if observant Jews are present, If the Children of such people wish to become more religious they will have to have a valid conversion, You can not be buried in an orthodox cemetary, Religious Jews will not eat your food even if you keep a kosher home, ect....

Now I understand many of the Jews on this site are not obsrvant or followers of Traditional Judaism, and I dont want to ruffle any feathers, you are my brothers and every bit as much a Jew as Moses was himself, But you know, even if you think what you are doing is right or you are convinced it is right, that what you engage in is not Traditional Judaism.



______________________

neshomamench...why do we have to attack each other?

re: "Now having said that, I never said someone cant convert to Judaism. And of course there would be requirments for classes and learning before you could. c That is the first step and if the "Rabbi" does not do that your conversion is already invalid. It is my understanding that even some Reformed and Conservative do this on some level. Be advised that anything less than an Orthodox conversion is not valid. You can not qualify for the right of return laws in Israel. You can not be counted for a minyan if observant Jews are present, If the Children of such people wish to become more religious they will have to have a valid conversion, You can not be buried in an orthodox cemetary, Religious Jews will not eat your food even if you keep a kosher home, ect....

______________________________

What I said is a Rabbi would tell you to get lost. It is Jewish Law that a Rabbi has to make it very difficult for you in order to test your sincerity.

The tradition is to refuse the request for conversion three times.

Be advised that anything less than an Orthodox conversion is not valid. You can not qualify for the right of return laws in Israel. You can not be counted for a minyan if observant Jews are present, If the Children of such people wish to become more religious they will have to have a valid conversion, You can not be buried in an orthodox cemetary, Religious Jews will not eat your food even if you keep a kosher home, ect..

When I converted 15 years ago, within the largest-growing Reform Synogogue in Northern Virginia, I was reproached as per tradition, then attended classes for two years before my Rabbi and myself deemed I was ready to convert. I went to a mohel, and also went to mikva.

The State of Isreal does indeed recognize Reform converstions outside of the State of Israel.

__________________________



Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:50:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

neshomamench...why do we have to attack each other?



______________________________



The tradition is to refuse the request for conversion three times.



When I converted 15 years ago, within the largest-growing Reform Synogogue in Northern Virginia, I was reproached as per tradition, then attended classes for two years before my Rabbi and myself deemed I was ready to convert. I went to a mohel, and also went to mikva.

The State of Isreal does indeed recognize Reform converstions outside of the State of Israel.

__________________________






I am not attacking any Jews, I am pointing out what is less than the tenents of traditional Judaism.

Yes you are right, that is the exact minmum, and me stating the Rabbi must make it dificult includes the minimum.

While the conversion you made might have followed the mandates of orthodoxy (admitedly not the norm within the reformed community) Your Bais Din was not made up of appropriate Jews. And while you might disagree with me, you know what I am talking about. As far as the State of Israel aknowledging this, They might now, I now they did not for many years, and they sure wont again if a religious faction gets involved. Also, you know the Rebbinate does not aknowledge your conversion nor would they recognize your marriage (If your mate was indeed Jewish)

Now having said that, Considering I have seen you post manythings that would indicate that you have a Jewish Neshoma and consider yourself and your fate one with the people of Israel, Why the half hearted effort? I am not of the ilk of Orthodox who would more or less be a prick to you. While I wouldnt let you marry my daughter or call you up for an Aliya at my shuel, I think you and I are of one soul, We stood at Sainai over 3300 years ago togeather. That is why you want to attach yourself to Torah and Hashem, Now the question is why not do it the right way? The onus for where you are at is on those who have convinced you that you have done the right thing. It is on their heads but you still must do the right thing.

I understand you might think I am wrong and strongly disagree, but you know that Reformed or conservative Judaism is not Traditional Torah Judaism. Thats about all I wish to say on the matter. Anyone who throws their hat into the ring with the Jews on any level is not someone I wish to have cross words with. I would just like to assure you and the Hakodesh Barechu are in sync considering all your efforts.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 12:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigMHoff:
I guess that makes me Jewish enough for the 88's but not Jewish enough for the real Jews? Whatever.
.



What is an 88?
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:02:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neshomamench:

Originally Posted By BigMHoff:
I guess that makes me Jewish enough for the 88's but not Jewish enough for the real Jews? Whatever.
.



What is an 88?



neo nazi scum

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 1:52:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 1:53:59 PM EDT by scuba_ed]


"While the conversion you made might have followed the mandates of orthodoxy (admitedly not the norm within the reformed community) Your Bais Din was not made up of appropriate Jews. And while you might disagree with me, you know what I am talking about. As far as the State of Israel aknowledging this, They might now, I now they did not for many years, and they sure wont again if a religious faction gets involved. Also, you know the Rebbinate does not aknowledge your conversion nor would they recognize your marriage (If your mate was indeed Jewish)

Now having said that, Considering I have seen you post manythings that would indicate that you have a Jewish Neshoma and consider yourself and your fate one with the people of Israel, Why the half hearted effort? I am not of the ilk of Orthodox who would more or less be a prick to you. While I wouldnt let you marry my daughter or call you up for an Aliya at my shuel, I think you and I are of one soul, We stood at Sainai over 3300 years ago togeather. That is why you want to attach yourself to Torah and Hashem, Now the question is why not do it the right way? The onus for where you are at is on those who have convinced you that you have done the right thing. It is on their heads but you still must do the right thing.


I understand you might think I am wrong and strongly disagree, but you know that Reformed or conservative Judaism is not Traditional Torah Judaism. Thats about all I wish to say on the matter. Anyone who throws their hat into the ring with the Jews on any level is not someone I wish to have cross words with. I would just like to assure you and the Hakodesh Barechu are in sync considering all your efforts."

___________________________



I understand you might think I am wrong and strongly disagree, but you know that Reformed or conservative Judaism is not Traditional Torah Judaism. Thats about all I wish to say on the matter. Anyone who throws their hat into the ring with the Jews on any level is not someone I wish to have cross words with. I would just like to assure you and the Hakodesh Barechu are in sync considering all your efforts."

Thank you for you kind words, and I truly mean that you believe we have a commonality transcending millennia, with our shared historical memory of a covenant before G-d at Sinai.

May our posts, as you so truly and honestly felt become for us, as with our ancestors who sleep in the dust, both represent in this forum for ourselves and those who have never been exposed to Judaism as a source of understanding and mutual bonds.

Neshomamench. I appreciate your words to me. And I thank you.

I will support Judaism to its fullest extent in this forum and reverently attempt to present the Jewish viewpoint.

May we both find peace and courage within ourselves to join as a source of Jewish spiritualism and understanding.

B’Shalom, Haver,

Ed
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 3:56:15 PM EDT
We jews do have a tendancy to be defensive.....hmmmm wonder why
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