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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/29/2005 10:49:23 PM EDT
In Arizona, we are required to surrender our firearm(s) to law enforcement when asked. We can have our permit yanked if we refuse. (Not to mention probably being drawn down on by the po-po)..

Anyway, in the 3 or 4 times I have been pulled over, every single time the cop took my weapon. 2 or 3 times they even unloaded it. I'm a CCW Instructor here and the Sgt. running the CCW Unit at DPS said that the officers are NEVER to unload the firearm. Seems one officer tried unloading a 1911 and blew his DXT to shreds.. ooops

I understand why cops would ask for my weapon. They don't know me and I have just told them I have a firearm. If TSHTF and things escalate, they want ME unarmed.. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it..

So, my question is; how many of you confiscate the firearm during the stop? Do you unload the firearm?

Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:16:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:20:54 PM EDT
Yes and yes. I usually remove the mag/ammo and place in a seperate part of the vehicle. The placing of the weapon is usually done by a 2nd officer while I have the driver of the vehicle.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 11:21:13 PM EDT
I got pulled over in the city early one morning by a motorcycle cop. I advised him of my firearm that was in a bag on the passenger seat, he simply asked me to exit the vehicle while the stop was conducted and that was it.

My wife and I took a trip up near Show Low and DPS pulled her over. She advised him that she and I both carried and he just said "ok" and continued the stop.

A funny:
A couple of months after my wife first got her CCW back in the mid-90's, she took a trip to Northern California. She got pulled over (she said she stopped at the stop sign...hehe) and the LEO came up to the window of the van. She handed him her AZ driver's license and her AZ CCW permit. She said it looked like he was about to fall over and stuttered out the words, "uh, you realize this doesn't allow carry in California." She replied that per CA law it was unloaded in a locked steel case, etc. but she thought she had to advise any LEO. He said that it was nice to know, but since she's not carrying in CA it wasn't required...and gave her a warning.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:45:21 AM EDT
Our state allows us to disarm (temporarily) CHL holders we stop, if we feel it is necessary during the course of our investigation.

The ONLY time I felt it necessary was several years ago when I stopped one who had been drinking. In that case, he presented his CHL (as required under state law) and told me that it was in the Glove box. I made sure that he wasn't carrying it on his person and that it was in the glove box before we proceeded with SFSTs. I did wind up arresting him for DWI. At his request, the weapon stayed in the glove box and it was noted on the inventory of the vehicle when it was impounded.

I would only worry about it if we were conducting any sort of investigation beyond a simple traffic stop.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:02:01 AM EDT
I'm no LEO, but let's just say I have had a roadside meeting or two with LEO's, most notably yesterday morning.

I have my hands on the steering wheel and inform them that my weapon is on my hip or under the seat, depending on my clothing for the day, and ask them how I should proceed. So far, not one has ever taken the firearm from me, much less unloaded it.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:09:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 4:11:12 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
Only done that a few times. Specifically, drunks, road ragers, and some guy masturbating next to the kiddie pool.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:40:48 AM EDT
been stopped a few times here in MI. Never had em even blink when I informed em of my CW. 1 officer was much more intrested in the vehicle accesory lighting than my permit or ID.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:51:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:05:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 5:10:03 AM EDT by Colt_SBR]

Originally Posted By natez:
Our state allows us to disarm (temporarily) CHL holders we stop, if we feel it is necessary during the course of our investigation.

The ONLY time I felt it necessary was several years ago when I stopped one who had been drinking. In that case, he presented his CHL (as required under state law) and told me that it was in the Glove box. I made sure that he wasn't carrying it on his person and that it was in the glove box before we proceeded with SFSTs. I did wind up arresting him for DWI. At his request, the weapon stayed in the glove box and it was noted on the inventory of the vehicle when it was impounded.

I would only worry about it if we were conducting any sort of investigation beyond a simple traffic stop.



I have held weapons until the traffic stop is over. If I had secured the weapon in my car, I always unload it and lock it in the owner’s trunk (or secure area) prior to the driver leaving. If I felt it needed to be secured, I sure as hell wasn't going to give back a loaded weapon. I have never had a problem with the owner objecting with my practice.

No flame but.............
I would never leave a weapon in a car being impounded/towed. It gets locked inside a locked property locker for safe keeping, if it's not evidence. The owner comes into the station after being released from jail and the weapon is returned to him/her, unloaded with the rounds sealed inside a thick plastic evidence bag.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:12:49 AM EDT
One time we were shooting "too close to town" and they took our rifles to run the serial #s.
They frisked me and removed my holstered 45. The officer who patted me down then proceeded to lecture me about how I was required to inform them I was carrying concealed. So I said, "OK, there's still a 380 in my inside coat pocket you might want to know about. I think they let me go from sheer embarrassment.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:19:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:21:09 AM EDT
I've never disarmed anyone while having a CHL and just stopped them on a traffic stop.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:58:56 AM EDT
As a practical matter, unloading may present a problem. One time, going into a gun show in Orlando, an officer was checking weapons to be sure they were unloaded. I handed the officer an H&K usp compact. He had no idea how to unload it and render it safe. He took a ribbing from his buddies but, no problem, I showed him how to do it. However, if on the road, an officer can indeed hurt himself if he doesn't know how to render a particular weapon safe, and it is loaded. I guess that would make an interesting scenario: you standing there, a wounded officer, your gun as the offending weapon. Not a good day.

Maybe some standard procedures, such as not disarming unless a threat is presented, or disarming and just locking the gun in the cruiser's trunk. Pick one, standardize, and follow.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:58:05 AM EDT
I guess I just don't understand why CCW holders "need" to be disarmed by LEO's during a stop. If there is resonable cause, ie drunk, then ok. Otherwise, what's the point? Anyone who is CCW has gone through training and most likely not a threat. It's the criminal who is not CCW who is a true threat. Some people just don't have any sense.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:02:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 8:04:07 AM EDT by ryann]

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Depends upon the particular 'peace officer' doesn't it?

Some do, some don't, irrespective of what their procedures may call for.

I like those that don't go along with bullshiite procedures.

Sure. They have every right to fear, I suppose.

I mean, to qualify for a CCW or CHL here in Texas, you have to show that you actually pay your taxes, pay off your student loans, and, bascially, have never have had any run-ins with the law.

Folks like that are like hand-grenades with faulty primers!

We could go off at any moment!

'Hand me my pistol, Margaret, that damn cop ain't going to give me a speeding ticket !'

Hell, I'm scared that the LEO is going to blow one of our fool heads off handling any weapon!

Eric The(ThankGodMyDogIsAlreadyDead!)Hun



Sigh.....
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:08:53 AM EDT
The couple of times I came across someone LEGALLY ccw I never even looked at their weapon.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:20:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redleg13a:
I guess I just don't understand why CCW holders "need" to be disarmed by LEO's during a stop. If there is resonable cause, ie drunk, then ok. Otherwise, what's the point? Anyone who is CCW has gone through training and most likely not a threat. It's the criminal who is not CCW who is a true threat. Some people just don't have any sense.



What I don't get is why a LEO with a gun is any more safe than a CCW with a gun. Seem like most of the posts in this thread assume CCW's are less safe with their handgun than a cop. This blows my mind.


If one has had a background check, completed ccw training with their pistol, and hasn't been observed commiting a felony...why disarm them at all? Why assume they are more likely to shoot the LEO than the LEO is to shoot the ccw?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
The couple of times I came across someone LEGALLY ccw I never even looked at their weapon.



I've had legal ccw in two states, over a 30 year time frame.

I've been pulled over numerous times for speeding... When I get pulled over, I tell him I'm legally packing, and show my ccw, (still in wallet). Had one cop ask to see it. NEVER had a cop ask to SEE the weapon. Had several ask where it is, told them where, (on me), and that was that.

I always move slow, and if my hands are gonna go out of sight, (where he can't see 'em), I tell him what I'm doing beforehand. If it's dark, my interior lights are on before he exits his unit. Cops here work alone, with little/slow backup. If I see a cop in trouble, I'll help him. Some cops LIKE armed citizens.

Cops apprieciate that stuff, and take it into consideration.

If a cop asked for my weapon????

I ain't sure SOME of 'em would know what to DO with a cocked and locked 1911....
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:34:26 AM EDT
I live in Fairfax County, Virginia and I do not trust the local police to be able to safely take a loaded Glock 23 off of my person and render it safe. Not all cops know about the proper operation of firearms other than the ones that they carry. That being said, I really have no choice. The police in Fairfax County will likely disarm me anyway.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:21:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
TN is a don't have to notify state. As such, I don't have my weapon on my person while in the car nor in the same place as my registration and proof insurance.

This way it never comes up.

Of course if actually on my person even though not required we are taught in CCW class to present our CCW permit with our license as a courtesy and safety issue. It is simply not a good idea to get our of a car armed while being stopped without notifying the officer.

The way I look at it if you have enough common sense to carry a weapon then you ought to have enough common sense to not have common sense required by law.

Tj



When I got my speeding ticket in TN for a small infraction of excessive speed (94 in a 70, If i remember correctly, would have been 120 if he was 1/2 a mile farther up the road), He was a little upset, but seeing as I actually pulled over and was stopped before he even made his turn around, I think that settled him down a little. Anyway, I gave him my chl and told him I was carrying, he almost tossed it back to me as if to say I don't care. Then he came back, with my ticket, and said the truckers had been talking about me since Texarcana.

I was in a hurry, mom was in the hospital.

But he did not take my firearm.

TXL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:40:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
As a practical matter, unloading may present a problem. One time, going into a gun show in Orlando, an officer was checking weapons to be sure they were unloaded. I handed the officer an H&K usp compact. He had no idea how to unload it and render it safe. He took a ribbing from his buddies but, no problem, I showed him how to do it. However, if on the road, an officer can indeed hurt himself if he doesn't know how to render a particular weapon safe, and it is loaded. I guess that would make an interesting scenario: you standing there, a wounded officer, your gun as the offending weapon. Not a good day.

Maybe some standard procedures, such as not disarming unless a threat is presented, or disarming and just locking the gun in the cruiser's trunk. Pick one, standardize, and follow.



Please tell me he had his dash camera rolling, would be my first and only question.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 10:24:26 AM EDT
Hmmm, that's interesting. I have since moved out of "Northern Virginia", but before I became a cop, I lived in Fairfax county and had a CHL. In the two times I was stopped I was NEVER disarmed or issued a summons. I also started a security business and schooled my people on how to interact with LEO's and they (all of whom are armed) have never had a problem with any Fairfax County or Fairfax City cops.


As a cop, I come into contact with CHL holders somewhat frequently. I have never disarmed anyone carrying legally. But that is because I have never felt compelled to do so. If someone with a valid CHL was acting in a manner that made me feel threatened ot that they were unsafe I would most certainly disarm them until our business is concluded.

pcsutton posted the question "What I don't get is why a LEO with a gun is any more safe than a CCW with a gun. Seem like most of the posts in this thread assume CCW's are less safe with their handgun than a cop. This blows my mind.

If one has had a background check, completed ccw training with their pistol, and hasn't been observed commiting a felony...why disarm them at all? Why assume they are more likely to shoot the LEO than the LEO is to shoot the ccw?"


Well, I can only give you my perspective, but...in Virginia, police officers are required by law (through Virginia DCJS) to meet minimum entry level qualifications:

( From the Virginia Administrative Code)

6 VAC 20-40-60 Firearms training.

1 . Nomenclature and care of handgun;

2 . Safety (on the firearms range, on duty and off duty);

3 . Legal responsibilities and liabilities of firearms;

4 . Handgun (handling, firing principles);

5 . Dry firing (application of basic shooting principles);

6 . Prequalification shooting (150 rounds, minimum);

7 . Virginia Modified Double Action Course (70% minimum qualification required);

8 . Qualification (70% minimum required) on one of the following record courses:

a . Modified Tactical Revolver Course

b . Modified Practical Pistol Course

c . Virginia Modified Combat Course I

d . Virginia Modified Combat Course II

e . Virginia Modified Double Action Course for Semi-Automatic Pistols

9 . Familiarization with the police shotgun

a . 20 rounds required, shoulder and hip position
Special weapons as required by locale

Then, the department is required to re-qualify each officer every calender year and submit the results to DCJS for their records.

The only training requirement for obtaining a Virginia CHL is that they have taken a firearms safety course. There is NO requirement for the CHL holder to demonstrate any shooting ability or qualify with a handgun, ever. They only have to have taken a safety course once in their lifetime and maintain a clean criminal history.

So, when I meet up with a CHL holder for the first time, all I know is that, at the very least, they have taken a firearms safety course and have a clean criminal record. They could be a hotshot pistolero or an accident waiting to happen......I have no way of knowing.



Originally Posted By gopeterson:
I live in Fairfax County, Virginia and I do not trust the local police to be able to safely take a loaded Glock 23 off of my person and render it safe. Not all cops know about the proper operation of firearms other than the ones that they carry. That being said, I really have no choice. The police in Fairfax County will likely disarm me anyway.


Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:47:53 PM EDT
This is a subject that needs attention by the State legislators and one that gives me high blood pressure. In Michigan the State law offers only one reason (during a traffic stop) for seizure of a weapon from a CCW holder, failure to produce your CCW lic ( other than commission of a crime ) and then the law gives you 45 days to produce your permit to the LE agency and have your weapon returned at that time. Our Gun Board consists of the DA, the Sheriff and a State police representative, I ask the question at one of the monthly meetings, Under what conditions do you need to surrender your weapon in a traffic stop? I basically recieved no answer other than the officer makes the decision if he feels that he is in danger. I contacted the State AG, the assiatant AG I talked to told me the officer must have CAUSE to believe he or she is in danger BUT the simple fact that a legally Licensed CCW holder has a weapon on their person is not in itself cause for seizure. Bottom line is that the officer on the stop will do as they choose and it will become a "he said you said" I have not heard of any Michigan LEO's taking weapons from CCW holders on routine traffic stops but I do cover this in my CCW classes. I teach that the Officer's orders should be followed BUT that you should ask for his Video to be turned on and you should NOT hand your weapon to the officer but allow him or her to remove the pistol themselves, ( Politeness and respect towards the officer are the order of the day here ) if you feel some kind of harassment there will be plenty of time to litigate the issue later. IMO an Officer asking for a weapon on a routine traffic stop is opening a huge can of worms with the possibility of things going very very wrong, from the CCW holder "handing a pistol ( Picture that at the side of the road with a guy with a pistol in his hand standing in front of an officer) to the officer being unfamiliar with the weapon and having a ND. I think our laws could and should be very clear on this issue but they are unfortunately not.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:21:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colt_SBR:

No flame but.............
I would never leave a weapon in a car being impounded/towed. It gets locked inside a locked property locker for safe keeping, if it's not evidence. The owner comes into the station after being released from jail and the weapon is returned to him/her, unloaded with the rounds sealed inside a thick plastic evidence bag.




It comes down to common agency practice. With Evidence, there is a long a convoluted process for him to get it back, or for that matter for us to put it in to Evidence in the first place. Also, the handgun, in this case, isn't technically evidence of any crime, and no authority exists to seize it. "Safekeeping" is vaguely defined by the courts. I sure as heck not putting it into his personal property at the jail...

We also perform a detailed, descriptive inventory on impounded vehicles, and all of our wreckers and impound yards are bonded and insured, by ordinance. If they lose his weapon (or cash or anything else valuable) noted on the inventory, it is on the wrecker company and not us, and the owner WILL get reimbursed for their loss. Most of the wrecker companies we have, when you note especially valuable property on the inventory, remove it from the vehicle before storage in the yard, and lock it in a safe on their property. Once they sign my inventory, it ceases to be my worry.

Again, it comes down to common agency practice. If the person arrested requests that their weapon go into evidence (and all of attendant hassles that entails), then it would, but barring that, the impound lot is relatively secure, and there is no liability on the agency for sending it there, at least for us.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:58:50 PM EDT
David_Hineline
Only been stopped in Nebraska, everytime stopped in NE since NE is an open carry state, the handguns were on the dash in plain sight, everything else was everywhere else. Never asked for or touched by the cops. Iowa office did ask to see a knife I had in a sheath in a dashboard cubby. Glad there was not search for guns because there were plenty on my person and in car and before I got an Iowa permit.

When I went to jail in South Dakota I had to show the arriesting officer how to unload the Glock machinegun on the dashboard, open carry so he could take me to jail for a SW 44sp revolver in a non locking pistol rug in the back of a Chevy Blazer. SD open carry or concealed with permit, but non open guns must be in locked compartment or case. No compartments in Chevy Blazer lock, I don't lock gun cases.

Now SD accepts Iowa's permit as do about 12 other states. So I am good to go most places I routinely travel.


You should understand the firearms laws of the states you are traveling to before traveling. Most are readily availble on the internet. In SD the laws are very lax and I fail to see how anyone could not comply. I take it the S&W was loaded inside that case.
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