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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 6/16/2002 9:23:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 9:29:08 AM EST by Pthfndr]
I live in a mountain community off the beaten path. Local fire protection is by CDF.I respect our local firefighters a great deal. They have a very tough job up here in the mountains. I shoot rifles and hand guns in competition and have a great deal of loaded ammo, primers and powder on hand at any given time. That's in addition to the loaded ammo for plinking with my other guns. My first question is: Do I inform them of what I have stored here in the event they need to respond to a fire at/near my home? If so, how do I do explain it with out them thinking I'm some kind of doomsday survivalist / militia nut. Local LEO is pretty gun friendly up here but still...I would just as soon not have them reporting that so and so has a large arms and powder cache. My second question: Since it's now officially fire season up here, and we've all seen what's happening in CO. Can you make any recommendations for fire safe storage short of a underground concrete ammo bunker. I presently store my powder and primers as best I can per recommendations given the climate conditions here. Edited to add: How should I handle it if they want to come check out my current storage methods? Thanks
Link Posted: 6/16/2002 6:40:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/16/2002 6:54:28 PM EST by ParaPyroPig]
Originally Posted By Pthfndr: My first question is: Do I inform them of what I have stored here in the event they need to respond to a fire at/near my home?
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Yes, please do. We firefighters keep information regarding possible hazards on file (preplan books) in case we have to respond. We hate suprises, and so would our heirs. Boom. [BD] Don't sweat it; a lot of firefighters are fellow gun enthusiasts, too, so while your trepidation may be warranted, you might be surprised by the reception you get.
How should I handle it if they want to come check out my current storage methods?
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We usually won't, just keep the info on file. Talk to the fire chief / fire inspector about it - even call in anonymously if you want. About storage recommendations... Hmmmmmmmm. I would suggest that you look into making / buying some manner of "magazine" for storage of the powder / primers. I would think that a fire safe would do - anything that's rated for media storage or paper would do. Obviously expensive, though.... Maybe a cheaper alternative would be to get a bunch of those Sentry file safes, but it sounds like you have a lot of supplies to protect. P3[pyro][^][heavy]
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:01:02 PM EST
Good advice P3-- As a FF I would be concerned about the bulk powder more than anything else. The ammo and primers aren't a big deal. As far as storage is concerned I don't really know of anything reliable except for a fire rated safe, but as P3 said, that's an expensive way to go.
Link Posted: 6/18/2002 6:10:57 PM EST
I just bought a large fire rated gunsafe this past year. I think any serious gun owner should have one, for several reasons - protection against theft (at least in a smash and grab situation, if they are serious and beat the alarm they will get in with enough time, but who is that serious hitting a residence in a regular neighborhood?), for fire protection, and to keep out of the hands of children. I have had a gun stolen after I gave it to my dad for safekeeping while I was on a long trip - it still bothers me over 10 years later, and I certainly don't want firemen hurt or my kids to do something dumb.
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 1:41:43 AM EST
Way back in 1950 or so the NRA did a study of loaded ammo burning in a fire, it was found that without a barrel to contain the round and give it velocity or direction the round would burst or go off, but without any appreciable force, I don't think it would inflict much damage unless you were standing very close to it.I've tried this by burning rounds in a barrel , and checking the results.They were right the round case will burst or the round goes off but not as if fired by a weapon, it would be like how close do you want to be by a M-80 if it went off kind of thing
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 10:53:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/27/2002 10:55:40 AM EST by fireguy]
The NFPA did a similar test not long ago, maybe a couple of years ago. They cooked off some ammo to see if it would penetrate a firefighters turnout gear, the loose ammo that cooked off did not have enough power to penetrate all the layers of the gear. The only real hazard was possible eye injury if you were not wearing face protection. So standard bunker gear is usually enough protection for FF's. Of course, as I said above, the bulk powder would be bad news for everyone. --Fireguy
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 11:06:21 AM EST
BLACK Powder would make me sweat. It is explosive, where smokeless powder is 'merely' flammable. If you have both types, try it out. Lay out a trail of a couple feet of smokeless powder on a concrete slab, light it with a grill lighter. You can see the flame move. Now, CAREFULLY do this with blackpowder. It will be WHOOSH! gone before you can pull the lighter back. Keep the can away from either sort, take appropriate precautions, etc. Might look for commercial "powder magazines"; some places require 'em for more than a certain amount of powder (10 lbs?).
Link Posted: 6/27/2002 9:57:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 1:12:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By fireguy: Good advice P3-- As a FF I would be concerned about the bulk powder more than anything else. The ammo and primers aren't a big deal.
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Primers are the most dangerous by far, especially in quantity. They are a true explosive, and very sensitive. That's what makes them work.
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What happens when a primer is exposed to fire? Does it explode and create shrapnel or just make a loud bang? There designed to channel their energy in one direction more or less so I'm not sure how big a hazard this would be to FF's. Not positive on this so I'll have to look it up and get back to ya. --Fireguy
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 7:34:51 AM EST
Has anyone ever noticed that the primer tubes on Dillon presses are heavy gauge steel. IIRC, Dillon said they are constructed very heavy so that the detonation of a hundred or so primers in the tube would vent straight up and pepper the ceiling instead of scattering schrapnel all over the workshop. There have been testimonials in "The Blue Press" supporting this.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 9:08:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dave_G: Has anyone ever noticed that the primer tubes on Dillon presses are heavy gauge steel. IIRC, Dillon said they are constructed very heavy so that the detonation of a hundred or so primers in the tube would vent straight up and pepper the ceiling instead of scattering schrapnel all over the workshop. There have been testimonials in "The Blue Press" supporting this.
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[b]Been There, Done That[/b]
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 11:35:24 AM EST
SAAMI and NFPA regard large amounts of primers as extremely dangerous to personnel and property if detonated, I take back what I said earlier about primers not being that big a deal when exposed to fire.
Link Posted: 6/30/2002 8:27:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 3:45:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: BTW, please don't think I was picking on you. It's just that I have made a point of knowing about the hazards of storing them, as I, uh, em, well, let's just say I keep an adequate supply on hand. [:D]
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no prob beekeeper, I never thought that, I couldn't find any real info on what happens to primers in a fire so I tried it myself. I set a single 209 shotgun primer in burning sawdust and got a pretty good pop after about 40 seconds exposure. It was a bit more explosive than I would of figured. Multiply that by several thousand and I can see how you could get a good fireworks display. --Fireguy
Link Posted: 7/4/2002 7:39:01 PM EST
Update I stopped in at the local CDF firehouse a couple weeks back and was told by one of the guys to talk to the Capitain in charge of the shift. He was very cool about the whole thing. He asked me how much I had, how was it stored, where, any explosive devices (NO). He told me because of the very rural nature of our area they don't keep any sort of list of places. Most of the ones that might present a hazard such as auto repair/parts places and the lumber mill are pretty well known. He asked me if I would be willing to list what I had and where it was stored along with my name and address and let him email it out to all the FFs. Since he was very courteous about the whole thing and seemed more appreciative about knowing, rather than actually concerned about what I had I agreed to do that. So now two weeks later, no visits from either CDF or Sheriff. And I feel a bit better knowing I have done something proactive to help protect my local firefighters. Oh, he did ask if I shoot off my back deck (I do) so I think he may know where I am already as there are only a couple of us on our hill that do that. Now if there was just some way to fire proof that big friggin propane tank in my yard! I've heard some pretty good horror stories about what happens to those things in a fire.
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