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Posted: 3/4/2002 4:44:03 PM EDT
Read the whole piece and comment on the degree of difficulty. After reading this..how hard would this be to do? I'm not questioning the abilities of the Muslims/Islamics to have this kind of accuracy. I'm just wanting to hear an opinion on how it was done with a WWII weapon and with kill shot accuracy...I'm just wondering. Somethin's not right. From a report in the Israeli media: They were picked off methodically, one by one: first the Israeli soldiers manning an isolated West Bank roadblock, then their commander, then a medic, then the reinforcements who rushed to help -- seven soldiers, together with three civilians, all killed by a lone gunman armed only with an old single-shot rifle, taking aim from under an olive tree. The lethal efficiency of Sunday's assault -- combined with what was denounced as the army's colossal tactical error in choosing the site for the roadblock, and the fact the gunman escaped unscathed after firing for nearly half an hour -- sent shock waves through Israel's military establishment and beyond, triggering some of the fiercest public criticism of the army in years. The roadblock had come up in the military's discussions of checkpoints where soldiers were considered particularly vulnerable, the Yediot Ahronot newspaper reported. Its account, like most others in the Israeli press, spoke incredulously of the "bloody toll" caused by a single gunman "with an antiquated carbine rifle." As detailed accounts of the shooting emerged from military sources and in the media, they painted a chilling portrait of deadly concentration on the part of the attacker. The bullets were fired less than a minute apart, and 10 of the 25 shots were fatal. The soldiers targeted first -- those manning the checkpoint after dawn, as traffic was beginning to trickle past -- wore helmets and flak jackets, but were felled by single bullets. The roadblock's commanding officer, who had been inside the old British prison that served as the unit's living quarters, was hit almost the second he stepped outside. The unit's medic was shot dead before he was able to try to treat one of his fallen fellow soldiers. The valley's steep walls became an echo chamber, making it difficult for soldiers to pinpoint the source of the shots. The attacker's World War II-era carbine was recovered, with its barrel damaged; it could not immediately be determined whether it was hit by return fire or simply malfunctioned because it was old and had been used to fire so many shots so quickly. Who dunnit? [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:06:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:11:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2002 5:24:39 PM EDT by DaMan]
I seldom agree with Shotar, but I think he is right on both points. He just left off one point.... the Palestinian "sniper" had balls of Tungsten Steel! DaMan PS - I would bet the weapon used was a K98 Mauser.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:27:55 PM EDT
OK...400 yards + for 30 minutes, with a Mauser or Enfield or M44. Someone really screwed up. Seems like they would have had some type of cover or moved a heli to provide support, sooner than 30 minutes? I'm looking at my newly acquired Turk Mauser and M44 with a curious eye now...hmmmmmm. Amazing how the weapons of war can be timeless. The "shooter" had to have done this before? Or at least had a pretty accurate assumption going in...something just does'nt sound right guys...grassy knoll, here we go. Thanks Shotar and Beerslayer...I'm just having a hard time comprehending, I guess. [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:38:19 PM EDT
Were any balistics tests done on the barrel to the bullets in the corpses? I'm curious to see if they match up as I have doubts that they would. I dunno guys, I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I'm thinking that something else is up here.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:42:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 5:48:22 PM EDT
Only other possible weapon they have access to are the SVD Dragunov's. They can wreak havoc at ranges up to 400 yards.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 12:19:56 AM EDT
Granted, those old WWI/WWII era rifles were designed with the idea of long distance shooting to begin with. However, the news story sounds a bit fuddled. It describes the rifle as a WWII era carbine. But it also describes it as a single shot. It also says the rifle may have been damaged by being fired so fast. But apparently this rapid firing was 25 rounds in a little under thirty minutes - muzzleloaders can be fired faster than that! I’m not a history buff so I don’t remember all the facts, but it seems to me that Sgt. Alvin York’s accomplishment in WWI surpasses what has happened here. Maybe this just proves the old adage that “it’s the man, not the gun”.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 3:57:38 AM EDT
How about a tactic that was used in North Vietnam?....Remember the days of the U.S Air Force Wildweasels? During the bombing of North Vietnam, lots of U.S air crafts were shot down by SAM. The Wildweasels were created to counter the SAM by shooting a missile zeroed onto the SAM radar emission and therefore to knock it out of commission. The North Vietnameses later developed a tactic to confuse the Wildweasel by turning on their radars on and off and at different locations before the Wildweasels can lock their missile onto the radar beam. Thus created a shell game for the U.S Air Force Wildweasels to pinpoint the location of the SAM radars. Can that tactic apply here? Supposed there were a number of gunman that opened up at different locations to mask the location of the real sniper and therefore created a confusion among the Israelis?
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:41:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2002 4:43:45 AM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
The question, That comes to my mind, is, Have the Iranian Special Forces set up a sniper training school for the Palistians?, and if so, where?
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:46:41 AM EDT
Now you know why the Anti's wont stop till all guns are gone. EVEN the hunting/sniper rifles, with the sniper scopes. c-rock
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:53:57 AM EDT
The Israeli checkpoint was at an old British checkpoint and jail. It is located in a valley between two ridges. The lone gunman sniper was on the ridge to the East of the checkpoint, with the sun at his back. The echo of the riflefire, together with the sun, created a confusing situation for the Israeli defenders, as well as for the civilians who were cut down by the lone gunman sniper. [b]The clearly-marked IDF medic was shot in the head as he tried to give aid to one of the fallen victims.[/b] Yet, this cretin will be a local hero for the Palestinians. I guess heroes come in all flavors. And insofar as choice of weapons, Lee Harvey Oswald managed to lay down some pretty fancy shooting in Dallas, one November afternoon, with a rifle that had no reputation for being a tackdriver. And I'm sure that he was a hero to some, as well. Just not to clearly thinking folks. Eric The(IChooseMyHeroesVeryCarefully)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 7:56:40 AM EDT
Not very difficult. There are shooters in this world, and there are people who own guns. The auditory cover I can vouch for during experience while deer hunting. More than once I've shot at game under certain terrain conditions where they had no idea where the shot came from. I was using a 12ga Ithaca with rifle sights one season and the leaf for the elevation fell out unbeknownst (sp?) to me. I shot at a nice buck who kept looking around and was obviously unaware of the direction of the shot. When I realized that I was shooting underneath (after four shots), I adjusted my POA and .... yummy. (There was a point when I actually thought my dad had pulled the slugs or something as I rarely miss) Anyhoot. People have used rifles with open sights for hundreds of years. I think the saying, "Beware the man with one rifle, he just may know how to use it" came from people with total and complete familiarity with their rifle.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 9:35:46 AM EDT
It was a well planned attack made by professionals. Not the usual Palestinian style. Remember that a lot of them blew up themselves making explosives with TATP, a very unstable one, all the attack made by Palestinians were bad planned and executed, otherwise the victim toll could be higher. I joined also a forum of the Jerusalem Post, and one of those "arabs" that are on the side of the Palestinians (and against Israel and YOU americans...) talked about a Remington 700 BDL in 308 win. The 308 can outrange the .223 Remington and offer to the shooter a better chance to hit without be hitten. 10 dead with very few shots would testify the professional nature of the shooter. Probably it was a team of two, the sniper and a spotter. The technique is the same used by VC in Vietnam: hit one of the soldiers and immediately after the medic (easy to detect who is... the one that is trying to rescue his comrades!)or the radioman. The psychologic effects in choosing such a targets is evident. The fact that after a old rifle is also an evident message: "See what we can do with this old piece of iron..." and left on the ground by purpose. But it's hard to believe that the real rifle has been abandoned... It's a intelligent psyop... Maybe Al Qaida have emigrated in Palestine? Just a question...
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 9:57:30 AM EDT
According to this there were three shooters: [url]www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26695[/url]
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 10:35:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SNorman: According to this there were three shooters: [url]www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26695[/url]
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Wow!....I didn't know that I guessed correctly.
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 12:32:22 PM EDT
Now we're gettin' somewhere... 2 theories you guys have supplied: The first one being it was a "crossfire" ambush...which according to this Debka report,( they are 50/50 in their previous reports),is being touted as the factual occurence of the events. Makes the most sense when trying to surmise the number of murders and it's effective execution. The second, is that it was a "professional" marksman, either trained by highly qualified personnel or it was a "hired gun" from somewhere else. In any case...the results are extremely disturbing. Paolo seems to have this scenario as the most likely, which at first seemed to be the answer. Why does it make a difference? Think about it...whoever or however it is/was done, if it is effective the Muslims/Islamics will repeat it. AT least that is their history. Not just in Israel either...I know this may seem off the wall. But, when they were taught how to make bombs...it made them a threat to the [b]WHOLE[/b] known world. I have read books, some fiction, that have espoused this very scenario. The sniper and what [b]TERROR[/b] he can bring... My whole thinking about this post had more to do with this assumption than anything else. It disturbs me to no end at their reckless abandon towards ending our way of life. If they can't get nukes in...why not get an old Mauser and.... A trained sniper with a cause...nothing is more dangerous without the use of bombs or incinderary (sic) devices IMO. Maybe I'm just paranoid,tinfoil hat on! [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
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