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Posted: 10/17/2004 5:13:47 PM EST
Saw an article in local smalltown paper where there was a move to institute a reserve deputy program. Sounded like a glorified neighborhood watch program that might attract wannabe cops.

The description of the program was to involve volunteers 2 to a squad car patrolling the streets. Unarmed except for the radio. Mainly to act as a deterrent and be eyes and ears.

I think I have seen something like this discussed here before, and I recall it was not well liked by the real leos.

Do these programs work, or are they feel good programs that cause more harm than good?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:38:02 PM EST
Our reserves are required to go through the full academy, FTO, etc. They are fully sworn deputies, they just don't work as LEO full time.

What you have described is foreign to me.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:44:16 PM EST
The description was a little sketchy in the paper. I haven't seen any official discription of the program from the county yet.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:45:52 PM EST
Some kind of civil watch. A real reserve officer is actually a commissioned LEO.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:47:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:20:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:29:02 PM EST
With as much crap that goes on in ATL I think its needed. However from my POV
you couldn't pay me enough to one be LEO and there's no way in hell I would do it
un-armed period. That to me is just insane. LEO's in Ga don't make shit as it is.
Don't get me wrong I have total respect for LEO's here Ga that aren't JBT but
again No way in hell.......


Wolf
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 6:45:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:11:46 PM EST
One of the townes here in Okla. has a programkind of like that. a glorified neighborehood watch. they take old police cars abd take the markings off, The volunteers receive minimal training. they basically drive around and are eyes. They also do administrative type work loke pick up paperwork and so forth. They do motorist assists and stand by ay wrecks. They seem to like the program until one of them gets hurt by somebody thinking the are a cop.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 7:22:38 PM EST
See thats crazy, If your risking your life which you are you should atleast get normal dept pay for it.
My hat goes off to you though.

Wolf
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 9:23:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By wolf-ym:
See thats crazy, If your risking your life which you are you should atleast get normal dept pay for it.
My hat goes off to you though.

Wolf



Thats why deputy/cops/firefighters will never get the pay they deserve. People are volunteering to do it free.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 5:41:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 5:42:11 AM EST by trippletap]
Sorry, but that's a bunch of crap. Maybe in some other broke/unionized city it's not like this....but not the case in my jurisdiction.
We have auxiliary police officers. They are fully sworn, go through the same academy (~750 hours), go through the same FTO training (450 hours), maintain the same bi-annual qualifications as the regular officers, and they patrol the city by themselves. At least 80% of the (about 100 officers) department started as auxiliaries. There is so much o/t available that we have lost details because nobody would do them. Some of these o/t details are shared between both the regular and aux. officers. The paid officers call the auxiliary officers and ask them to work for them so that they can take vacations or go to special schools when the otherwise couldn't because their squad would be undermanned (because others on it are out on leave or trainng).


Originally Posted By OKLA-LAWMAN:


Thats why deputy/cops/firefighters will never get the pay they deserve. People are volunteering to do it free.

Link Posted: 10/18/2004 7:21:48 AM EST
99% of the depts. in my state are not unionized. We also dont have the state subsidizing depts like Va. does. Most cites/towns/counties are flooded with applications for full time and reserve. Yet they pay like crud. Three years ago I was thinking about switching and going to a smaller agency. I sent my resume into this criminal justice job center and was instantly contacted by three depts. They were
offering from $950 to 1600 a month for CHIEF. You have to realize that most PD's in the United States are less than 3 members. In my own dept. we have reserves assigned to detectives, thus prevents officers who wotk their buts off to get there from getting there. Many of the small towns get away with such few officers because they have reserves to fill in. I know chiefs who consider reserves expndable. most come to work for a year or two. Get burned out and quit. This saves them money as many depts. require the reserves to furnish their own equipment and training. In okla., according to the Okla. Council on law enforcement training the average cadet out of the academy last less than two years before he gets out of law enfocement. Why long hours and short pay. Most depts dont pay $10 an hour to start and most provide only your car. We have it a lot better in the bigger cities but you are looking at a handful at best. Many of the smaller depts have no state pension, no FOP, no contract and serve at the leisure of their chief ie no civil service. Yes reserves do hurt pay.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:23:50 AM EST
+1
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:45:22 AM EST
Our reserves are indistinguishable from full time officers. They go through an academy, fto program and everything. Full armed, certified and trained and everything a full time officer is.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 11:46:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By OKLA-LAWMAN:

Originally Posted By wolf-ym:
See thats crazy, If your risking your life which you are you should atleast get normal dept pay for it.
My hat goes off to you though.

Wolf



Thats why deputy/cops/firefighters will never get the pay they deserve. People are volunteering to do it free.




because its a highly competitive field, and any experience you have over the next guy is beneficial.
Link Posted: 10/18/2004 12:13:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/18/2004 12:14:05 PM EST by RandomUser]
My dept had both Auxilliary (Unarmed, but wore same uniform, radio, light, cuffs, oc, unpaid) AND Reserve (Armed, same uniform, unpaid, indistinguishible from paid LEOs).

Auxlliary did mostly parades, went to community events, etc. Reserves were required to ride with a Full-Time member, or be partnered with one during any special events. Our city had very specific requirements for festivals, etc..where in Full-Time, PAID LEOs were required to be present in order to get the permit. Event organizer was to pay Dept ofcs Std OT rate + 15%. Dept would then pay officer the OT rate. If not enough full-time ofcs were availible to meet the staffing requirements, then Reserve Ofcs could apply for the detail and recieve pay.

The only other instance in which Reserve Ofcs could be paid was if they worked 20+ hours in a week due to crisis/emergency and there were not enough full-time ofc to cover shifts and crisis needs.

Yes, we were a unionized dept.

The Auxilliaries were more trouble than they were worth. Never failed that as soon as you called for 10-33, one idiot Aux would get on the main channel and ask to run a 28 in order to write a parking ticket.

Reserve guys were pretty good all around. Most just making time trying to get on full time with us. They had to go to our full-time academy and attend all dept training cycles.
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 4:55:40 AM EST
Well that truely does suck. My chief does not include auxiliaries when figuring out manpower/staffing needs during budgeting. They are factored in for training and equipment though. Auxiliary officers can attand any special school they want except K-9 and the state forensics school (6 months long). They can work with the detectives (vice, narcs, etc...) for six months if approved by command staff. There are also two auxiliary positions on the swat team (as long as they can pass the school, pass the test and attend the bi-weekly training....which only a few have been able to accomplish).
The goal is to SUPPLEMENT and SUPPORT the regular officers....not take their places (unless they call and ask one to work for them).




Originally Posted By OKLA-LAWMAN:
99% of the depts. in my state are not unionized. We also dont have the state subsidizing depts like Va. does. Most cites/towns/counties are flooded with applications for full time and reserve. Yet they pay like crud. Three years ago I was thinking about switching and going to a smaller agency. I sent my resume into this criminal justice job center and was instantly contacted by three depts. They were
offering from $950 to 1600 a month for CHIEF. You have to realize that most PD's in the United States are less than 3 members. In my own dept. we have reserves assigned to detectives, thus prevents officers who wotk their buts off to get there from getting there. Many of the small towns get away with such few officers because they have reserves to fill in. I know chiefs who consider reserves expndable. most come to work for a year or two. Get burned out and quit. This saves them money as many depts. require the reserves to furnish their own equipment and training. In okla., according to the Okla. Council on law enforcement training the average cadet out of the academy last less than two years before he gets out of law enfocement. Why long hours and short pay. Most depts dont pay $10 an hour to start and most provide only your car. We have it a lot better in the bigger cities but you are looking at a handful at best. Many of the smaller depts have no state pension, no FOP, no contract and serve at the leisure of their chief ie no civil service. Yes reserves do hurt pay.

Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:35:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 12:03:18 PM EST by crowboy]
Our SD Reserves go thru a Dept. academy, 13 weeks of 3 hrs a week and firearms qualification ect. No LEO certification and no arrest powers. Our reserves serve for free and buy ALL of their own uniforms, equipment and firearms. In uniform the only difference is our Sheriff Dept reserve patches have white letters instead of the gold letters. Our reserves must work with a certified LEO. Our county is a rural northern Mi county with serious funding problems. We cannot afford 2 men to a car as an example so the reserves come in quite handy. A minumum of 8 hrs service a month are required. ( Our reserves are armed )
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 8:41:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By OKLA-LAWMAN:
99% of the depts. in my state are not unionized. We also dont have the state subsidizing depts like Va. does. Most cites/towns/counties are flooded with applications for full time and reserve. Yet they pay like crud. Three years ago I was thinking about switching and going to a smaller agency. I sent my resume into this criminal justice job center and was instantly contacted by three depts. They were
offering from $950 to 1600 a month for CHIEF. You have to realize that most PD's in the United States are less than 3 members. In my own dept. we have reserves assigned to detectives, thus prevents officers who wotk their buts off to get there from getting there. Many of the small towns get away with such few officers because they have reserves to fill in. I know chiefs who consider reserves expndable. most come to work for a year or two. Get burned out and quit. This saves them money as many depts. require the reserves to furnish their own equipment and training. In okla., according to the Okla. Council on law enforcement training the average cadet out of the academy last less than two years before he gets out of law enfocement. Why long hours and short pay. Most depts dont pay $10 an hour to start and most provide only your car. We have it a lot better in the bigger cities but you are looking at a handful at best. Many of the smaller depts have no state pension, no FOP, no contract and serve at the leisure of their chief ie no civil service. Yes reserves do hurt pay.




+1
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 6:47:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/19/2004 10:01:45 PM EST
The SD here (Lake Co, IL) has a reserve deputy program that grew out of a CB club/heighborhood watch program back in the 70's.

They had a few folks pay their own $ and time from work to go to the state police academy (or U of I PTI), and were carrying. Then the (liberal) county board got involved, and denied any reserves - even qualified academy graduates from carrying... even the few diehards who started as RD's, and had been hired elsewhere as full timers, and kept in it for old times sake.

The number dropped dramatically, IIRC.

Sorry, but if I'm gonna wear county blue (OK, dark blue shirt instead of light blue, and a 7 point badge instead of a 5) I'd prefer to be able to defend myself or others if the situation comes up...

I'll stick with the City.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:09:18 AM EST
It looks like most of the professional LEOs don't appreciate, or see the need for volunteers.

I understand the wage thing, and thought the unarmed, but looked like a cop, thing was trouble waiting to happen.

Thanks for all your input, and stay safe.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:41:04 PM EST
To the OP:

This sounds like a program I've been told about in FL. An old friend who was a reserve PO in the Boston area retired to Boynton Beach, FL and volunteers to drive around in a Sheriff Dept supplied "cruiser" to observe and communicate in the condo areas. The car looks "real" (I've seen it) and he tells me they wear uniforms (don't know if they look alike or not) but are unarmed and have no police powers. He also told me that if one goes into the sheriffs stations in the area, all the employees at the desks are volunteers.

Another close friend just moved to W. Sedona, AZ a week ago and he told me that the area he's now living in has volunteers who patrol the area and they are allowed to be armed if they get a permit. He's volunteered for this program (he was a working Boston Constable, with full police powers until he moved) and I should know more about this in a few months, once he gets settled in.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 6:44:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 6:46:15 PM EST by wildearp]

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
Saw an article in local smalltown paper where there was a move to institute a reserve deputy program. Sounded like a glorified neighborhood watch program that might attract wannabe cops.

The description of the program was to involve volunteers 2 to a squad car patrolling the streets. Unarmed except for the radio. Mainly to act as a deterrent and be eyes and ears.

I think I have seen something like this discussed here before, and I recall it was not well liked by the real leos.

Do these programs work, or are they feel good programs that cause more harm than good?



A lot of these volunteer programs will only allow old fuckers and the wreck one hell of a lot of cars, usually by backing into objects.

/taxpayer
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 4:19:33 AM EST
Perhaps here.....but if you were able to see what the LEO's say on some of the secure LEO message boards (i.e. Calibre Press, Police One, etc...), you would mostly the opposite.

It really depends on the experiences they have had with the auxiliary/reserve programs in their jurisdictions.



Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
It looks like most of the professional LEOs don't appreciate, or see the need for volunteers.

I understand the wage thing, and thought the unarmed, but looked like a cop, thing was trouble waiting to happen.

Thanks for all your input, and stay safe.

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