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Posted: 10/20/2004 7:30:06 PM EST
In another year and a half ill be able to buy Nfa weapons i am wondering if i got a post 81(i think thats right year) the ones that are registered are they legal to convert an Ar 15 with or not?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:30:51 PM EST
guns are illegal.

Just ask the ATF...
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:32:09 PM EST
Your question makes no sense to me.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:32:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:33:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:34:19 PM EST
Are you talking about a registered Auto Sear - that you can use in a variety of receivers?


AFAIK full auto can be either a registered weapon (lower) or a registered DIAS - or something called a lightning link (I think).

There's TONS of information on that over on the M16/Full Auto board. Keep in mind that local laws also determine what NFA stuff is legal.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 7:50:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/20/2004 7:51:41 PM EST by Rand]
thanks for the info people ya i am looking for a registereddrop in auto sear to get an idea of how much they cost i know all the form 4 stuff done alot of reasearch justhave no idea the cost of the actual drop in auto sear and whether or not you can make a conversion with it anymore
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 8:04:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:50:45 PM EST
This Question should have been asked in the M16 Forum.

But I see you are at least learning.

For your next Class III Question Grasshopper, you should ask over at the M16 Forum. We’ve got answers to Questions you haven’t thought of asking yet.


We Need a Grasshopper Anim or Icon for New People who ask Good Questions in the proper method. Like Rand just did.
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:52:05 PM EST
I thought you could just file down the firing pin?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 10:59:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
I thought you could just file down the firing pin?









Isnt it funny how many people actually BELIEVE that? Its SCARY!
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:12:19 PM EST
Hey What Happens If you put A Registered DIAS in your Gun And It Breaks How do you Replace It?
Link Posted: 10/20/2004 11:28:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
I thought you could just file down the firing pin?









Isnt it funny how many people actually BELIEVE that? Its SCARY!




You mean its not true?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:41:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rob877:
Hey What Happens If you put A Registered DIAS in your Gun And It Breaks How do you Replace It?



You don't replace it. Its just gone. The purpose of the '86 ban was to remove machine guns from our hands by attrition. You are out blasting away with your toy, the toy has a KB and is not repairable then it is simply gone and can't be replace. If your DIAS breaks and you can't repair it you just spend another $10,000 and buy a new one.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 1:55:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Rand:
thanks for the info people ya i am looking for a registereddrop in auto sear to get an idea of how much they cost i know all the form 4 stuff done alot of reasearch justhave no idea the cost of the actual drop in auto sear and whether or not you can make a conversion with it anymore




The registered sear itself qualifies as the machine gun so it is legal to put them in any gun at any time. All legal sears had to be registered before the machine gun ban in the FOPA of 1986.

Regarding the 1981 date, you may be looking at those ads in the back of SGN for legal pre81 AR15 sears. The problem with those is while legal to own they are NOT on the NFA registry. That means you CANNOT own one of them AND an AR15 at the same time or it constitutes an illegal machine gun even if it isn't installed. Simply owning BOTH makes it illegal. If you DON'T own a AR15 you can legally own the sear but I don't know why you would want it as it is useless for anything legal.




Ya i heard about the pre 81 just wasnt sure on one after that being put in new Ar-15s
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:02:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jeep29:

Originally Posted By Rob877:
Hey What Happens If you put A Registered DIAS in your Gun And It Breaks How do you Replace It?



You don't replace it. Its just gone. The purpose of the '86 ban was to remove machine guns from our hands by attrition. You are out blasting away with your toy, the toy has a KB and is not repairable then it is simply gone and can't be replace. If your DIAS breaks and you can't repair it you just spend another $10,000 and buy a new one.



A DIAS is a small, sturdy chunk of metal. If you manage to destroy a DIAS beyond repair, you likely won't live through the event anyway.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 2:05:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 2:07:20 AM EST by gus]

Originally Posted By Rand:

Ya i heard about the pre 81 just wasnt sure on one after that being put in new Ar-15s



Pre or post 1981 means NOTHING. The only thing that matters is was it registered as a machine gun before the 1986 ban. If it is on the registry, you can install it in ANY AR15 regardless of the year the rifle was manufactured. If it's not on the registry, you can't install it in any AR15, and in fact you can't legally own it if you own an AR15.

RDIAS prices right now are hovering around $10,000 or a little more. In a year and a half they will be higher.

Again, check the M16/Full Auto forum on this website and read the FAQ threads.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:12:46 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:15:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By MisterFloppy:
I thought you could just file down the firing pin?


This worked great on my bolt action!
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:16:12 AM EST
I wonder if it isn't cheaper to just get set up as a Class II and make post-samples, considering where prices are going......
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:17:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rand:
thanks for the info people ya i am looking for a registereddrop in auto sear to get an idea of how much they cost i know all the form 4 stuff done alot of reasearch justhave no idea the cost of the actual drop in auto sear and whether or not you can make a conversion with it anymore




I don't ever want to hear you guys bitch about MY spelling again!


Sgatr15
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:27:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 7:28:34 AM EST by shaggy]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I wonder if it isn't cheaper to just get set up as a Class II and make post-samples, considering where prices are going......



Lets see...

Proper zoning, a commercial/industrial location for the business other than your home (unless you like the idea of BATF being able to search your home without a warrant), possibly an environmental impact study, $500/year for the SOT, $30 for the 07/FFL, $600/year for the US State Dept., you've got to actually do business or BATF will revoke the license, have to destroy or sell any post-samples if you relinquish or lose your license...

Or just buy a transferable, shoot it and enjoy it, and watch your investment grow.

Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:37:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jeep29:

Originally Posted By Rob877:
Hey What Happens If you put A Registered DIAS in your Gun And It Breaks How do you Replace It?



You don't replace it. Its just gone. The purpose of the '86 ban was to remove machine guns from our hands by attrition. You are out blasting away with your toy, the toy has a KB and is not repairable then it is simply gone and can't be replace. If your DIAS breaks and you can't repair it you just spend another $10,000 and buy a new one.



False. Olympic Arms is one manufacturer that will completely replace your rr if broken or if you just want to "upgrade" a cast old fashioned (a1?) style m16.

other title II manufacturers can completely repair (replace) damaged nfa firearms.

Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:49:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By shaggy:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I wonder if it isn't cheaper to just get set up as a Class II and make post-samples, considering where prices are going......



Lets see...

Proper zoning, a commercial/industrial location for the business other than your home (unless you like the idea of BATF being able to search your home without a warrant), possibly an environmental impact study, $500/year for the SOT, $30 for the 07/FFL, $600/year for the US State Dept., you've got to actually do business or BATF will revoke the license, have to destroy or sell any post-samples if you relinquish or lose your license...

Or just buy a transferable, shoot it and enjoy it, and watch your investment grow.





Yeah, Class III is fine for ONE machinegun...but what if you want 2 or 3 or 10? What if the one you want costs $30,000 NOW?

What if you want to make some money back through LEO sales, or maybe even some rentals...
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:52:42 AM EST
No shit, Sarge. WTF, youre going to be how old? And you cant spell or use punctuation correctly and you want a machinegun? How old are you?
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 7:55:02 AM EST

Hey ATF MAN!

Hey Boys, his post count is 218...IT'S A TRAP!

If you have a question about full autos, you shouldn't be asking it here, CALL THE ATF. If they determine what you are asking is ok, then it's ok.


Link Posted: 10/21/2004 8:03:33 AM EST
One could get a lot of arguments started with various interpretations of the law. But, if you want to do anything along the lines of conversion, you probably will need a manufacturer's license as well as the Class III.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 8:24:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 8:32:30 AM EST by shaggy]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By shaggy:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I wonder if it isn't cheaper to just get set up as a Class II and make post-samples, considering where prices are going......



Lets see...

Proper zoning, a commercial/industrial location for the business other than your home (unless you like the idea of BATF being able to search your home without a warrant), possibly an environmental impact study, $500/year for the SOT, $30 for the 07/FFL, $600/year for the US State Dept., you've got to actually do business or BATF will revoke the license, have to destroy or sell any post-samples if you relinquish or lose your license...

Or just buy a transferable, shoot it and enjoy it, and watch your investment grow.





Yeah, Class III is fine for ONE machinegun...but what if you want 2 or 3 or 10? What if the one you want costs $30,000 NOW?

What if you want to make some money back through LEO sales, or maybe even some rentals...



You want 2 or 3 or 10?

Then pony up and buy 'em - lots of people do. I paid $30k for a gun earlier this year and now its worth over $35k (and yes, I've had bonafide offers to buy); been a great investment. My point is, there's a lot more involved to getting an 07/SOT license than most people consider, and if you're really doing it just to get guns you can't afford, you're playing with fire and likely to get burned. Once you get that license, you're on their radar and BATF has sent quite a few dealers/manufacturers to prison for what really amounts to mere paperwork errors. Its not something to be taken lightly or an endeavor you should consider unless you really plan to make a business of it and have the resources (financial and otherwise) to invest. Not to mention the fact that if you don't earn money at it as a licensee, just getting a license to enhance your personal collection with post-samples is a bad financial move. The M60 you pay $30k for today will probably be worth $60k in a couple years. The post sample you buy for $6k will be worth a fraction of that in a year or two as beat-up used parts.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 8:25:43 AM EST
No one posted the "It's a trap!" pic yet??? You guys are slacking.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 9:01:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jeep29:
You don't replace it. Its just gone. The purpose of the '86 ban was to remove machine guns from our hands by attrition. You are out blasting away with your toy, the toy has a KB and is not repairable then it is simply gone and can't be replace. If your DIAS breaks and you can't repair it you just spend another $10,000 and buy a new one.



Completely untrue. If your MG breaks you can send it back to the original manufacturer for repair. If they are no longer in business, any qualified C2 can work on your weapon and repair it for you.

Sorry, the gov. just isn't that sinister. :)

Doc
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