Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 12/12/2013 7:02:01 PM EST
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on.

Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by.

Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this.

"When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh".

This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that.

So is this life or just fantasy?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:04:17 PM EST
If the new owners are getting their own FFL then yes the ATF will take all 4473 forms and the bound book. FFL's are required to keep 4473's for 10 years if I recall correctly.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:05:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on.

Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by.

Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this.

"When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh".

This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that.

So is this life or just fantasy?
View Quote

When you close shop, the 4473s go to the ATF.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:05:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By P08:
If the new owners are getting their own FFL then yes the ATF will take all 4473 forms and the bound book. FFL's are required to keep 4473's for 10 years if I recall correctly.
View Quote


Ok well, if that's the way it works then it's my fault for waiting too long. Thanks. Didn't know that.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:07:20 PM EST
Yep 4473's are sent to the ATF on change of ownership or going out of business. Dealers are required to keep them on file for 20 years.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:07:21 PM EST
To my understanding that is exactly what happens. If a gunshop shuts down, or changes hands the ATF takes all of the 4473's logged under the old FFL.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:08:23 PM EST
Does commiefornia have special rules to sell non fuddy guns?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:09:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on.

Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by.

Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this.

"When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh".

This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that.

So is this life or just fantasy?
View Quote


The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:10:00 PM EST
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:17:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:


The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on.

Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by.

Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this.

"When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh".

This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that.

So is this life or just fantasy?


The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense.


I think or believe everything on display was CnR but was told from my friend that when sold (before the change in Jan) in a shop they still need to go through FFL.

I'm no expert so don't hold me to it.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:19:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.
View Quote


Yeah, there is no way they would do anything like that. They hang onto them for some other good reason.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:21:26 PM EST
Maybe they meant antiques.

Guns made before 1890ish aren't covered by the GCA at all
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:25:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Maybe they meant antiques.

Guns made before 1890ish aren't covered by the GCA at all
View Quote


From what I understand it's 50 years makes it antiques. Probably wrong again.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:27:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:27:36 PM EST by LuckyDucky]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tesseract:


From what I understand it's 50 years makes it antiques. Probably wrong again.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Maybe they meant antiques.

Guns made before 1890ish aren't covered by the GCA at all


From what I understand it's 50 years makes it antiques. Probably wrong again.


That's for curios and relics

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/collectors.html#antique-definition
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:28:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.
View Quote

LOL, whenever customers ask me what happens with them I tell them the ATF keeps a database.

The last time we had an ATF audit they scanned EVERY 4473.

Don't think they don't really have a database people! Albeit, a database isn't very effective...... With all the boat accidents and what not.....
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:28:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Martel_C:


Yeah, there is no way they would do anything like that. They hang onto them for some other good reason.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Martel_C:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.


Yeah, there is no way they would do anything like that. They hang onto them for some other good reason.

My thoughts exactly
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:29:53 PM EST
Ok you guy start a thread on relics and laws I was just curious about shop change of ownership and ATF concerning the 4473, thank you for the info.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:36:50 PM EST
This thread is now about relics.

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:50:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 7:53:51 PM EST by LuckyDucky]
I think there is a curio and relic AR15 in existence.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:52:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics.

http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg
View Quote

Great, now Spain's going to come and claim this thread.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 7:53:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics.

http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg
View Quote


Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:02:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics.

http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg






OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste.

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:04:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:




OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/relic-german-helmet-forum/546060d1312790543t-relic-m40-helmet-screw-vent-hole-oxalic-acid-1.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics.

http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg






OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste.

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/relic-german-helmet-forum/546060d1312790543t-relic-m40-helmet-screw-vent-hole-oxalic-acid-1.jpg


YOu are wasting bandwith
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:07:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 8:09:06 PM EST by humanitarian2112]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
YOu are wasting bandwith
View Quote



You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir.

ETA a relic:

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:09:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.
View Quote


And the NSA doesn't spy on Americans. You live in a dream world if you don't think they make digital scans and toss the paper forms.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:14:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 8:14:21 PM EST by LuckyDucky]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:



You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir.

ETA a relic:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
YOu are wasting bandwith



You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir.

ETA a relic:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg


Here is a relic
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 8:16:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:


Here is a relic
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
YOu are wasting bandwith



You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir.

ETA a relic:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg


Here is a relic



LOL. Didn't click.

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 10:31:53 PM EST
From the ATF
Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)

When an FFL discontinues business, the FFL must send their firearms transactions records to the National Tracing Center (NTC). The NTC receives an average of 1.2 million out-of-business records per month and is the only repository for these records within the United States.

Records can be mailed to the NTC or, alternatively, they may be delivered to your local ATF Office in order to comply with laws for surrendering records (which include all bound log books/acquisition & disposition books and computer printouts, ATF Form 4473’s, Theft/Loss Reports, Multiple Sales Reports, and Brady forms).

Please direct all further questions concerning firearms out-of-business records to the NTC.
View Quote


More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center
Top Top