
Posted: 12/12/2013 7:02:01 PM EST
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on.
Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by. Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this. "When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh". This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that. So is this life or just fantasy? |
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The time has come the Walrus said, to speak of many things.
Like sealing wax and sailing ships and jet black AR15's. |
If the new owners are getting their own FFL then yes the ATF will take all 4473 forms and the bound book. FFL's are required to keep 4473's for 10 years if I recall correctly.
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"They bought me a box of tin soldiers, I threw all the Generals away, I smashed up the Sergents and Majors, Now I play with my Privates all day."
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Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on. Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by. Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this. "When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh". This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that. So is this life or just fantasy? View Quote When you close shop, the 4473s go to the ATF. |
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It will be the first time I will smile while another dude sticks his finger up my ass. - hondaciv
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Originally Posted By P08:
If the new owners are getting their own FFL then yes the ATF will take all 4473 forms and the bound book. FFL's are required to keep 4473's for 10 years if I recall correctly. View Quote Ok well, if that's the way it works then it's my fault for waiting too long. Thanks. Didn't know that. |
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The time has come the Walrus said, to speak of many things.
Like sealing wax and sailing ships and jet black AR15's. |
Yep 4473's are sent to the ATF on change of ownership or going out of business. Dealers are required to keep them on file for 20 years.
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NRA Endowment member
Tennessee Squire Maker's Mark Ambassador Glock, Remington M870 and M700, and M16/ AR15 Armorer. NRA Basic Pistol Instructor |
To my understanding that is exactly what happens. If a gunshop shuts down, or changes hands the ATF takes all of the 4473's logged under the old FFL.
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Does commiefornia have special rules to sell non fuddy guns?
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Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on. Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by. Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this. "When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh". This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that. So is this life or just fantasy? View Quote The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense. |
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The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database.
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Go to Heaven for the climate, Go to Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
So years back I bought an AR and when I went to pick it up they for whatever reason didn't have any detachable carry handle rear sights that was part of the package. I had them write it down on the receipt and left. Since then a lot of stuff has happened in my life and I forgot about it, content with an Aimpoint I carried on. Long story short we were by the place today during lunch so we stopped by. Everything in the shop was fudd guns. I asked about it and the guy at the counter told me they changed owners so they are waiting on the ATF for the new FFL and could not sell "modern rifles". So that reminded me that I have a carry handle sight to pick up, which they had plenty of on display. I asked the guy how many years they keep the 4473 info and the guy told me this. "When the ownership changed the ATF came in and collected all the 4473 forms so we have to start fresh". This sounds like complete bullshit to me but as I'm nothing FFL educated I have no idea how it works. As far as I know the ATF are not allowed to do that. So is this life or just fantasy? The 4473 info is correct. I don't understand why they can sell fudd guns but not ARs though. That makes no sense. I think or believe everything on display was CnR but was told from my friend that when sold (before the change in Jan) in a shop they still need to go through FFL. I'm no expert so don't hold me to it. |
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The time has come the Walrus said, to speak of many things.
Like sealing wax and sailing ships and jet black AR15's. |
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Maybe they meant antiques.
Guns made before 1890ish aren't covered by the GCA at all |
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The time has come the Walrus said, to speak of many things.
Like sealing wax and sailing ships and jet black AR15's. |
Originally Posted By Tesseract:
From what I understand it's 50 years makes it antiques. Probably wrong again. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Tesseract:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Maybe they meant antiques. Guns made before 1890ish aren't covered by the GCA at all From what I understand it's 50 years makes it antiques. Probably wrong again. That's for curios and relics http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/collectors.html#antique-definition |
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Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database. View Quote LOL, whenever customers ask me what happens with them I tell them the ATF keeps a database. ![]() The last time we had an ATF audit they scanned EVERY 4473. Don't think they don't really have a database people! Albeit, a database isn't very effective...... With all the boat accidents and what not..... |
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Originally Posted By Martel_C:
Yeah, there is no way they would do anything like that. They hang onto them for some other good reason. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Martel_C:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
The ATF takes them, but they are not put into a central repository, nor digitized into a database. Yeah, there is no way they would do anything like that. They hang onto them for some other good reason. My thoughts exactly ![]() |
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Team Ranstad grand prize winner 2012
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Ok you guy start a thread on relics and laws I was just curious about shop change of ownership and ATF concerning the 4473, thank you for the info.
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The time has come the Walrus said, to speak of many things.
Like sealing wax and sailing ships and jet black AR15's. |
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Go to Heaven for the climate, Go to Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
I think there is a curio and relic AR15 in existence.
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Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics. http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg View Quote Great, now Spain's going to come and claim this thread. |
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Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics. http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg View Quote ![]() |
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Children should be educated and instructed in the principles of freedom.
John Adams, Defense of the Constitutions, 1787 |
Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics. http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg ![]() ![]() OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste. ![]() |
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Go to Heaven for the climate, Go to Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
![]() OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste. http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/relic-german-helmet-forum/546060d1312790543t-relic-m40-helmet-screw-vent-hole-oxalic-acid-1.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By fervid_dryfire:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
This thread is now about relics. http://www.outlaw-effects.com/store/images/products/relic/relic1.jpg ![]() ![]() OP said he was done. You gonna waste a perfectly good thread? That's what's wrong with America these days. Waste, waste, waste. http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/military_photos/relic-german-helmet-forum/546060d1312790543t-relic-m40-helmet-screw-vent-hole-oxalic-acid-1.jpg YOu are wasting bandwith |
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Go to Heaven for the climate, Go to Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
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Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir. ETA a relic: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
YOu are wasting bandwith You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir. ETA a relic: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg Here is a relic |
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Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Originally Posted By humanitarian2112:
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
YOu are wasting bandwith You are a very witty and handsome man. Do continue, sir. ETA a relic: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-04/25/131550618_11n.jpg Here is a relic LOL. Didn't click. ![]() |
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Go to Heaven for the climate, Go to Hell for the company. - Mark Twain |
From the ATF
Discontinue Being a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL)
When an FFL discontinues business, the FFL must send their firearms transactions records to the National Tracing Center (NTC). The NTC receives an average of 1.2 million out-of-business records per month and is the only repository for these records within the United States. Records can be mailed to the NTC or, alternatively, they may be delivered to your local ATF Office in order to comply with laws for surrendering records (which include all bound log books/acquisition & disposition books and computer printouts, ATF Form 4473’s, Theft/Loss Reports, Multiple Sales Reports, and Brady forms). Please direct all further questions concerning firearms out-of-business records to the NTC. View Quote More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Tracing_Center |
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"Bureau of Alcohol, Snuff, Firearms and Explosives" Google translator. @Everrest
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