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Posted: 11/19/2008 4:40:08 PM EDT
It may sound like a stupid question and I' not trying to start a flame war. If you are carrying a rifle in combat, what is the purpose of also carrying a pistol ? Is it solely in case your rifle breaks ? Or is there some other reason ? It seems to me that a pistol would only be better then a rifle in such a limited amount of circumstances that you'd be better off carrying more ammo for your rifle then carrying a pistol.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:41:08 PM EDT
to fight your way to another rifle when your rifle goes TU
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:41:27 PM EDT
Because shit happens.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:41:57 PM EDT
Suicide?
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:42:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 4:43:08 PM EDT by sherrick13]
Immediate self defense and only until you can get to your long arm.

The main benefit is it can literately be with you and ready for immediate use anywhere.


This even goes for police. If I have a reason to believe a gun fight is a serious possibiliy the long arm goes with me.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:44:58 PM EDT
Close quarters combat. For that time that the officer is in confined quarters and needs to shot someone.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:45:10 PM EDT
To kill with.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:45:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:
It may sound like a stupid question and I' not trying to start a flame war. If you are carrying a rifle in combat, what is the purpose of also carrying a pistol ? Is it solely in case your rifle breaks ? Or is there some other reason ? It seems to me that a pistol would only be better then a rifle in such a limited amount of circumstances that you'd be better off carrying more ammo for your rifle then carrying a pistol.



Carrying a sidearm I think was started by the Cavilary in the late 1840s or there about. It was an issue for a mounted soldier or officer( on horseback ) to carry a rifle. The tradition of an officer carrying a sidearm continues today.


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:46:47 PM EDT
You gotta have something to put in that sweet Miami Classic shoulder rig for extra CDI points!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:46:49 PM EDT
It's mission dependent.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:47:03 PM EDT
You can carry all the extra ammo you want. If the gun that shoots that ammo goes TU then you are shit out of luck. Also a pistol is much easier to handle when you are in a vehicle, unless you scoop up a side/underfolder AK that is.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:49:29 PM EDT
So that when you are on the FOB, you don't have to carry your rifle to the DFAC.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:52:47 PM EDT
Before:

To fight your way to the first available long gun....

Now:

....the quote below

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
So that when you are on the FOB, you don't have to carry your rifle to the DFAC.


Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:54:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
So that when you are on the FOB, you don't have to carry your rifle to the DFAC.


Yes, this most of all.

Otherwise, it's good to have a secondary when your primary fails, be armed when you need one hand to commit to another task or want a lower signature while out and about.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:55:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Because shit happens.

THIS

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:56:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2008 3:31:24 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent enemy with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:57:01 PM EDT
Personally, I would just use a bullpup and carry extra ammo..
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:58:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 4:58:47 PM EDT by TearsInRain]
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


But, it uses 9mm FMJ's! Arfcom told me those weren't lethal!

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:58:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
So that when you are on the FOB, you don't have to carry your rifle to the DFAC.


This....
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 4:59:31 PM EDT
I work with a man who while fighting in vietnam; One of the gooks had snuck up on him and about took his head off with a machete, knocking him to the ground and he shot him with his 45 after a brief scuffle.

I do not know all the details and I'm sure some are lost telling it 3rd person but that sounds like reason enough to me to carry a side arm.

Apparently this was some sort of "stealth" type mission they were on and weren't supposed to fire. As the story goes, his Sergeant wanted him court marshaled. He ended up getting a medal!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:01:06 PM EDT
the way I see it is for some it is tradition for some it is a viable back up weapon incase your rifle gets fucked up and for some it is both
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:02:42 PM EDT
I read the replys above and didn't see this. The reason to carry a side arm into combat or any other situation is so you can transition from your primary weapon (rifle) to your pistol when you encounter a failure, run out of ammo, etc.

Transitioning to your pistol when your rifle is out of ammo is faster than reloading your rifle.

I guess if you're a internet ninja you may find another reason, but plain and simple, this is the reason.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:03:06 PM EDT
It's also been debated that it's faster to transition from an empty rifle to a loaded handgun if there is an immediate threat, then when that immediate threat is gone, you can reload your rifle and continue...

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:05:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TearsInRain:
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


But, it uses 9mm FMJ's! Arfcom told me those weren't lethal!


Yeah, Arfcom says a lot of shit that has no bearing on reality.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:08:13 PM EDT
In the Marines until just recently it was the T/O&E weapon for SNCOs and Os. When available you'd get a rifle too.

Those habits are hard to break so now that the M-4 is the T/O&E weapon no one wants to give up the pistol.

It's like Arfcom. "Get both".

You don't carry any less rifle ammo just because you have a pistol.

It's back up.

You can still be armed on a FOB without carrying your rifle everywhere.

It fits nicely in your sleeping bag with you.

2 guns are better then 1.

Cool factor.

And a lot of other reasons.

Ask SgtMaj Kasal about the benefits of having a pistol.







Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:09:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:11:17 PM EDT by Alacrity]
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


Raven 42 - 617th MP Co, Kentucky National Guard, - Salman Pak

As she turns to move back to the trenchline, Gunner in two sees an AIF***** jump from behind one of the cars and start firing on the Sergeant. He pulls his 9mm, because the .50 cal is pointed in the other direction, and shoots five rounds wounding him.****** The sergeant moves back to the trenchline under fire from the back of the field, with fresh mags, two more grenades, and three more M203 rounds. The Mk 19 gunner suppresses the rear of the field.


Full AAR Here

Luck
Alac
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:09:27 PM EDT
So officers can prevent mutinies.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:11:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TearsInRain:
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


But, it uses 9mm FMJ's! Arfcom told me those weren't lethal!




Who you gonna believe? Arfcom told me that soldiers don't know shit about guns (when they complain about M16/M4 reliability), but they are experts when they say the M9 & 9mm cartridge sucks!
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:12:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:13:18 PM EDT by Frost7]
Originally Posted By Alacrity:
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


Raven 42 - 617th MP Co, Kentucky National Guard, - Salman Pak

As she turns to move back to the trenchline, Gunner in two sees an AIF***** jump from behind one of the cars and start firing on the Sergeant. He pulls his 9mm, because the .50 cal is pointed in the other direction, and shoots five rounds wounding him.****** The sergeant moves back to the trenchline under fire from the back of the field, with fresh mags, two more grenades, and three more M203 rounds. The Mk 19 gunner suppresses the rear of the field.


Full AAR Here

Luck
Alac

I don't know if that particular incident was it, that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe I'm misremembering though, as it was a brief news article I read some five years ago or so now.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:12:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:14:13 PM EDT by Jeeper21]
double tap.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:17:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Brians_45:
Because shit happens.


Exactly. Your aircraft or vehicle gets blown up, or you're tossed into the weeds, ambushed during lunch, whatever, that sidearm will be hanging from your belt where you can get to it.
As with CCW, the gun you have with you (for whatever reason) is the one you'll use.

As for me, I'd rather be armed with an M9 than be gazing longingly at the burning wreckage that contains my M4.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:19:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Model_One:
As for me, I'd rather be armed with an M9 than be gazing longingly at the burning wreckage that contains my M4.

This.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:20:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Twitchy:
. The reason to carry a side arm into combat or any other situation is so you can transition from your primary weapon (rifle) to your pistol when you encounter a failure, run out of ammo, etc.


I guess if you're a internet ninja you may find another reason, but plain and simple, this is the reason.



My dad was a B-17 pilot. He carried a 1911 in a shoulder holster. I wonder how you transition from a B-17 to a .45? I'll bet there's a parachute deployment in there somewhere. I'll have to ask him.

Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:21:46 PM EDT
They are for shooting fuckers.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:25:39 PM EDT
Well... it's pretty much a last ditch, fight your way to another rifle, weapon. My father in law's father in law had to use a S&W victory model in Korea(special permission to use it, he's left handed) on a couple of koreans that came into the com base one night. He said there was nothing like gunshots at 3 am to make a Marine base come alive.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:29:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/19/2008 5:32:33 PM EDT by VT4meGunCtrlisAntiUS]
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Originally Posted By Alacrity:
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


Raven 42 - 617th MP Co, Kentucky National Guard, - Salman Pak

As she turns to move back to the trenchline, Gunner in two sees an AIF***** jump from behind one of the cars and start firing on the Sergeant. He pulls his 9mm, because the .50 cal is pointed in the other direction, and shoots five rounds wounding him.****** The sergeant moves back to the trenchline under fire from the back of the field, with fresh mags, two more grenades, and three more M203 rounds. The Mk 19 gunner suppresses the rear of the field.


Full AAR Here

Luck
Alac

I don't know if that particular incident was it, that doesn't sound quite right. Maybe I'm misremembering though, as it was a brief news article I read some five years ago or so now.


I think I remember the story that you are talking about. A Soldier or Marine took out 6 or 7 bad guys with an M9 while fighting his way out of a trench.. That's all I remember, but I think that is what you are talking about here...

ETA: IIRC something else about this guy, he took several 7.62X39 rounds to the chest and survived because he was wearing armor. Does this ring a bell Frost??
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:30:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TearsInRain:
Originally Posted By Frost7:
Pistols can still be deadly in the right hands. I remember a story from the Iraq invasion (Gulf War II, not I) where either the TC or the loader from a disabled Abrams held off and killed several of a group of rather violent towelheads with his M9 (guess they didn't have an M4 available or they broke it or something). As I said, a pistol in trained hands is still quite deadly as a backup weapon.


But, it uses 9mm FMJ's! Arfcom told me those weren't lethal!




He probably pistol whipped em' to death.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:34:46 PM EDT
2 is one and 1 is none and all that jazz
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:36:20 PM EDT
Because I am required to have one on my person at all times when deployed per AFI 21-101.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:37:19 PM EDT
As a member of a Convoy Support element, it is much easier to get your M9 out of your holster in a vehicle than get your M-16 or M-4 up to shoot someone right outside your window.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:40:15 PM EDT
If I was in a combat situation, I'd certainly want a sidearm. Watch the scene in BHD where Gordon and Shughart are defending Durant's Blackhawk. They can be seen occasionally drawing their .45s when their rifles run dry.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:40:17 PM EDT
There are many reasons for a side arm all are mission dependent.......

1. Medics are not allowed to carry rifles but need a way to defend themseleves.

2. Sileced pistols are great for shooting dogs, ducks, geese, goats or other animals that may alert the locals that someone is outside at 2 AM.

3. Because the main rifle is set up for long range work and you need CQB weapon.

4. Pistols in a shoulder holster can be put into action quickly from a seated postion in a cockpit or driver seat with out flagging others.

5. To offer the extra comfort of having a few more bullets in a second gun as a back up

6. Because you want everyone to know your in charge and a stainless 1911 commander does that best.

7. To shoot privates that try to retreat from the battle. (Soviet reason)
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:15 PM EDT
Most Machine Gunners and Assault Men (smaws) carry M9's for obvious reasons...malfunctions and SMAWS don't make good short (<25yrds) range weapons.

Its a Defensive Weapon for most.

Corpsman used to carry them, now a lot are carring M-4s
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:30 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:30 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:31 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:38 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:39 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:39 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:40 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
Link Posted: 11/19/2008 5:41:40 PM EDT
It’s really simple if you think about it. Your rifle goes black you transition to your loaded pistol. Your pistol goes black go to your fixed bladed knife. Fixed blade goes black move to the traditional fighting training and rip out that fuckers eyes with you thumbs.

CQB CQB CQB CQB CQB. DON’Tgive up and kill like a demon.
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