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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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Posted: 4/6/2001 10:20:58 PM EDT
I was wondering, I live in California (inmate # 546765434) and want to know the laws pertaining to buying a firearm in another state.  Do the California rules supersede the other states laws or what?  Example: Arizona has an instant background check with no wait (I  think anyway), California requires a 10 day wait.  So if I go to Arizona and buy a firearm which rules apply?  I also attend Reno,NV gun shows and the laws there are very similar to Arizona.  Can I even buy a gun in another state?  If I did this could I then have the gun shipped to my FFL with out another background check? Or would I have to go to the sellers location?

Any help would be appreciated...Thanks

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 12:35:18 AM EDT
Federal law says you must obey the laws of both your home state and the state the sale is taking place in.
California law says california residents may noy buy guns in any other state.
therefore if you were to go to Nv to buy a gun you would be breaking both state and federal law.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 12:59:51 AM EDT
Really?  I did not know that, thanks!  Now maybe if I could just get a DL for a neighboring state, like Nevada or Arizona.[;)]

Hell, I am hoping to move to one of those states soon anyways.

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 4:44:58 AM EDT
If anyone is interested, Illinois law prohibits me from buying a gun in another state.

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:40:08 AM EDT

Since when??

IL cannot prohibit your actions OUTSIDE the state, and, unless they snuck a California style registration law and closed the registration date through before I noticed, it does not matter where you get your guns.

IL may be able to restrict long gun sales IN-State to residents that have a FOID card, but I was going to buy a .50 rifle from State Arms, and almost wound up driving up there to save on the shipping.  I wound up having it go to my dealer because I couldn't get the time to drive the 5 hour round trip.  Klaus was happy to have me come up there (I would have had to pay WI sales tax).

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:42:51 AM EDT
I'm not sure about Iowa. Anyone else know if we can buy out of state? [:D] Milldude
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:46:01 AM EDT

I think that is not entirely correct--Fed. Law may require you to meet the purchase requirements in the state you are buying in, but I don't think they can enforce state law (i.e.--if CA says you cannot buy out of state, that is their problem).  

Fed. Law usually permits long gun purchases in contiguous states (i.e. ajoining your state) but not handguns.  If the Dealer in NV (AZ) will sell it to you, you are fine.  You cannot buy "assault weapons" because they cannot be registered in your state--although, I would bet you could legally buy them and store them in secure storage outside of CA.  

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:16:42 AM EDT

AR15fan is correct, at least according to my latest version of "Know your California gun laws" put out by the California Rifle and Pistol Association.

KA requires that ALL gun transfers are subject to a waiting peridod and take place through an FFL.

If you want to buy a gun from an out-of-state source, it has to come in through an FFL dealer.

It sucks, and is one of the reasons I'm anxious to escape.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:28:15 AM EDT
I think everyone has missed the point here...the man admits and professes to be an INMATE # so and so...FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITS HIM FROM FIREARMS OWNERSHIP UNLESS I AM MISTAKEN...I think all of the this state that state argument is academic in this situation...

JUST MY 2 cents
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:29:24 AM EDT
Unless of course the inmate thaing is an attempt at humor living in the Police State of Kalifornia as he does...
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:30:47 AM EDT

Hence my own use of the word "escape..."
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:38:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By The Remnant:
I think everyone has missed the point here...the man admits and professes to be an INMATE # so and so...FEDERAL LAW PROHIBITS HIM FROM FIREARMS OWNERSHIP UNLESS I AM MISTAKEN...I think all of the this state that state argument is academic in this situation...
View Quote

ROTFLMAO.....The inmate # is a joke, it refers to me being a prisoner of the beautiful Comunist State of Kalifornia! Out here we are controlled by [img]http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/mica/trooper.gif[/img].

Anyone else have any more info?

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:40:22 AM EDT

I take it from his post that SgtAR15 wants to leave CA and buy the gun in another state.  Unfortunately for The State of CA, they can go Fu** Themselves--regardless of CA law (which can only apply in CA), if he can legally buy the gun in NV or AZ (assuming there are no NV or AZ state laws against out of state residents purchasing long arms), then he has to meet their laws ONLY (and go through a dealer in NV or AZ--I don't think that private sales are OK to out of state residents).  

CA can require all in-state sales go through a dealer--but that cannot affect out of state sales.

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:41:17 AM EDT
AFARR, I looked into this and found that a resident of CA cannot purchase an assault weapon, even with the intent of never bringing it into CA.  When it comes to firearms, the state laws follow the individual.  When I lived in CA, I was looking for a way I could buy an AR in TX to leave there and use there, but everything I found said it wouldn't be legal.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:57:41 AM EDT
In order for a CA resident to purchase an AR-15 in another state he would have to establish a residence in that state.

Federal law prohibits the sale of a firearm to a resident of another state where such firearm is prohibited.

To assist dealers in complying with the law the ATF publishes a compendium of all State firearm laws.



(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only buy a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, [b]provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides.[/b]

[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29]


§178.96 Out-of-State and mail order sales.

(c)(1) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun, and a licensed collector may sell or deliver a rifle or shotgun that is a curio or relic to a nonlicensed resident of a State other than the State in which the licensee's place of business is located if--

(i) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee's premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun;

(ii) The licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer complies with the provisions of Sec. 178.102; (iii) The purchaser furnishes to the licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, required by Sec. 178.124; and

[b](iv) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States.

(2) For purposes of paragraph (c) of this section, any licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer is presumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both such States.[/b]

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:58:20 AM EDT

You're correct, as long as the KA resident doesn't then attempt to bring the gun back home and expose himself to the jurisdiction of KA Department of "Justice."

That was poorly worded, it should have started with a qualifying "I think..." because I'm not sure of the law, just the logistical problems the KA DoJ would have with even finding out about an out of state transaction.

My plan is to get out of KA, establish residency in another state, and never look back.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:10:46 AM EDT
Someone asked this just recently - only twist was they wanted to get a pre-ban AR15.  Since the CA registration requirement, I don't know if there's really a difference anymore, at least with respect to the purchase of an AR15 (pre-ban or post ban) outside of the state by a CA resident.  It is true you could go to another state and purchase a long gun from a dealer, but the purchase and posession must be in conformity with the law of both states (18 USC 922(b)(2)-(3)). As far as I am aware, while the purchase or possession of an AR15 IN CALIFORNIA would be unlawful, there is no such prohibition in CA law against purchase or possession by a CA resident OUTSIDE of CA. Generally, states cannot proscribe or make unlawful activities which occur outside of their territorial boundaries and have no effect within their borders. Thus, I think it is quite arguable that you could purchase a long gun, such as a pre-ban AR15, in another state (it wasn't purchased in CA in violation of CA law), and as long as the firearm didn't cross a state line into CA (it wasn't possessed in CA, in violation of CA law). Just as an example, it is similarly unlawful for an individual to purchase or possess a machinegun in CA. However, a resident of NV (MGs are legal for individuals to possess in NV) could legally buy a machinegun there and had it safely stored in NV if he later moved to CA and became a CA resident. Thus a CA resident could possess a machinegun, albeit outside of the state, and legally purchased while the resident of another state. I think a similar application could apply here with the purchase of an AR15. I'm not a CA lawyer though, and I don't have any CA statutes or cases in front of me, so I'm not saying its legal - only that it is quite arguable. The kicker here is that if you purchased and possessed in another state, and it was determined later that the purchase was in violation of CA law, I don't think CA could prosecute because of a lack of jurisdiction; only the feds could.  Thus violation of CA state law, in this application, would only serve as a door (actually a requirement) to federal prosecution under 922(b).

qwijibo - If you've got the research I'd love to see the CA statutes and cases (CA or fed) on this.  Do you have some links or citations?
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