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Posted: 8/2/2009 9:20:13 PM EST
2 Members from our Dept (Sheriffs Office) were on there way back to NY from OHIO traveling though PA with a prisoner when a PA State Trooper pulled them over for speeding in a marked Patrol Unit, what are ur thoughts on this from my understanding they were not driveing reckless. The Trooper from my understanding was yelling at them the 2 Road Patrol DEP were Females.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:29:21 PM EST
I see no problem with them exceeding the speed limit to get back to their state with a prisoner.
I go a little faster on the highway too as most prisoners act like ass holes, smell, puke, piss, shit, etc.
Sooner I get him or her out of the car the better.

I could not imagine a long road trip with a prisoner.

If the trooper had an issue he should have phoned their PD and spoken
to their super.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:34:46 PM EST
In most states, people drive 10-15 over most of the time anyway. I don't see a reason why cops shouldn't be allowed to do it like non cops do. Yelling at 2 cops in front of their prisoner, very unprofessional.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 9:55:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/2/2009 9:57:29 PM EST by DvlDog]
Oh I dont know...I have been pulled over for speeding many times when I wasnt driving wrecklessly. I set the cruise control for 9mph over the limit and I find MD, PA, and NJ to be the only states that routinely pull me over at that speed. Yelling at the deputies in front of non-LEOs is unprofessional. Handle your business discretely in private.

No lights, No siren, No speeding.

good stop.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 10:10:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 6:18:52 AM EST by Gargoyle]
PURE CLOWNSHIP.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:01:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 2:03:21 AM EST by shrikefan]
If they broke the law then they should be held accountable. As most police here will say to civilians - don't drive over the speed limit if you don't want to get stopped for speeding. Turnabout is fair play.

Oh and IBTSS on 1!!
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:09:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:19:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 2:23:22 AM EST by beavo451]
A while ago, a poster claiming to be a State Trooper was bragging/boasting that he stopped a Dallas PD marked squad car. He said it was a recruiting vehicle driven by officers that "disrespected" him and the DPS by passing him on I-45. Said he wrote them a ticket too.

If I saw a cop pulling over another cop, I would think that they were engaged in some type of shenanigans and not really doing their jobs.

Edit to add:

Traffic law and enforcing it with an iron fist? Anybody remember the recent Ryan Moats incident and former DPD Officer Powell?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:23:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By shrikefan:
If they broke the law then they should be held accountable. As most police here will say to civilians - don't drive over the speed limit if you don't want to get stopped for speeding. Turnabout is fair play.

Oh and IBTSS on 1!!

Please pay attention to what forum you are posting in


Please explain. Did I post something that was wrong or in bad taste? If so, my appologies and please erase it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:39:10 AM EST
if it wasn't fast enough for him to call their supe, they should have called out his.
otherwise, he's just wasting time.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:45:00 AM EST
My understanding is unless responding to an emergency call police vehicles are subject to the exact same traffic laws as all other vehicles. I can understand not wanting the prisoner in your car any longer than necessary but what exactly is a chained and caged man gonna do?


Yelling is bad form. Write the cite and deal with it professionally.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 2:57:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
My understanding is unless responding to an emergency call police vehicles are subject to the exact same traffic laws as all other vehicles. I can understand not wanting the prisoner in your car any longer than necessary but what exactly is a chained and caged man gonna do?


Yelling is bad form. Write the cite and deal with it professionally.


Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:22:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 3:23:09 AM EST by honorabledog]
I'm not a member of LEO, but my take on it would be it's best to hear the Troopers side of the story before condemning him for pulling over the two Deputy's. If he pulled them over and yelled at them then maybe they were doing more than just speeding a little. Think about it if it was your sector and some outside agency came rolling through 25+miles over the speed limit. That's disrespectful to say the least. But then again I'm not a cop

Eta:spellcheck
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:29:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By NYCOP:
...from my understanding they were not driveing reckless.



Supposedly traffic laws are intended to help insure the safety of the public. Exactly why are law enforcement officers who exceed the speed limit not endangering the public? What kind of reaction would a member of the public get if he attempted to use the, "I was not driving reckless" defense when stopped? Good for the PA Troopers!
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:31:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?


Respectfully I doubt my needing to take a dump will get me out of a ticket.

Your second point has merit. But if the prisoner is that type of risk I doubt he would be transferred in an open manner where he would know his itinerary.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:46:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?


Respectfully I doubt my needing to take a dump will get me out of a ticket.

Your second point has merit. But if the prisoner is that type of risk I doubt he would be transferred in an open manner where he would know his itinerary.


bathroom needs have gotten people out of more tickets than you will know. you just have to sell it.
if the prisoner relieves himself in the vehicle while out of state, guess who gets to clean the fecal matter while the other must attend to an unconfined prisoner?

in the really real world, we all don't get to work with operators and OPSEC in place. people know and talk more than they should.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:52:42 AM EST
Was it an emergency? Was the higher-than-posted speed necessary for the completion of their duties?

if not, then they should be subject to ticketing just like all the other civilians.

Yeah, it's chickenshit, but damnit, those who are charged to enforce the law must first set an example by obeying it.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:53:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:13:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It's a double edge sword. Marked unit going the speed limit or slightly over impedes the normal speeding activities of others and pisses people off. Going way over the speed limit pisses off folks.

Better to just go the limit or a little over, back up traffic and let them be pissed.


Yup. Even our Crown Vic that has "Fire Dept" in big letters on the back still messes up traffic.

And I can't imagine that they were stopped for going 5 over.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:35:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?


Respectfully I doubt my needing to take a dump will get me out of a ticket.

Your second point has merit. But if the prisoner is that type of risk I doubt he would be transferred in an open manner where he would know his itinerary.


Yeah, well I don't start stopping people until about 15 over, and then it's about 50-50 whether or not I write, when you get +20 I'm pretty quick with a pen. But there are people who I've stopped, that have been going +20 plus, and had some type of reasoning that put my pen back away.

OTOH, remember, if the prisoner craps/pees themseleves, it wouldn't be impossible that they complain/sue that the officers didn't allow them to go the bathroom, didn't clean up the mess, etc............................... They violated the prisoner's Civil Rights.................
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:47:15 AM EST
I would say the stop falls under officer discretion. As I'm sure you can tell I have no issue with the stop. Just the yelling.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:09:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By HerbG:
Originally Posted By NYCOP:
...from my understanding they were not driveing reckless.



Supposedly traffic laws are intended to help insure the safety of the public. Exactly why are law enforcement officers who exceed the speed limit not endangering the public? What kind of reaction would a member of the public get if he attempted to use the, "I was not driving reckless" defense when stopped? Good for the PA Troopers!

Like everything else in LE, there are circumstances where it is warranted. This may or may not be warranted, but if you read the posts by LE, most, if not all, state they would not ticket ANYONE for being a few miles over the limit. My guess is that this Trooper had an issue with a couple of females. Just a guess. As to why LE exceeding the speed limit are not endangering the public. Everything LE does has the potential of endangering the public. Weapons, Vehicles, Custody of dangerous chemicals and people are just a few. To minimize the danger, LEOs are put through hours, days, months, and ongoing training including EVOC and other driving courses. They are in that vehicle for almost the entire shift. It's their job.

That said, I still have a copy of the ticket a CHP Officer gave me while I was in uniform in a marked County vehicle. I was doing 65 in 55 going down hill. Oh well, I paid the ticket.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:40:01 AM EST
Completely unprofessional and a waste of time. If it would have been me, there would have problems when the yelling began. There are too many reasons for an officer to be travelling over the speed limit and for the trooper to presume to know their reasoning (or lack of) is rediculous. The best answer so far is to call their pd/supervisor to complain if you have a problem with it. This is an excellent way to start wars between departments.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:58:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By cybrscream:
Completely unprofessional and a waste of time. If it would have been me, there would have problems when the yelling began. There are too many reasons for an officer to be travelling over the speed limit and for the trooper to presume to know their reasoning (or lack of) is rediculous. The best answer so far is to call their pd/supervisor to complain if you have a problem with it. This is an excellent way to start wars between departments.


The unit was in a completely different state. This isn't like a county car pulling over a city unit in their own turf.

I completely agree that yelling at them was out of order.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:29:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:

Originally Posted By HerbG:
Originally Posted By NYCOP:
...from my understanding they were not driveing reckless.



Supposedly traffic laws are intended to help insure the safety of the public. Exactly why are law enforcement officers who exceed the speed limit not endangering the public? What kind of reaction would a member of the public get if he attempted to use the, "I was not driving reckless" defense when stopped? Good for the PA Troopers!

Like everything else in LE, there are circumstances where it is warranted. This may or may not be warranted, but if you read the posts by LE, most, if not all, state they would not ticket ANYONE for being a few miles over the limit. My guess is that this Trooper had an issue with a couple of females. Just a guess. As to why LE exceeding the speed limit are not endangering the public. Everything LE does has the potential of endangering the public. Weapons, Vehicles, Custody of dangerous chemicals and people are just a few. To minimize the danger, LEOs are put through hours, days, months, and ongoing training including EVOC and other driving courses. They are in that vehicle for almost the entire shift. It's their job.

That said, I still have a copy of the ticket a CHP Officer gave me while I was in uniform in a marked County vehicle. I was doing 65 in 55 going down hill. Oh well, I paid the ticket.


WOW!!

So someone with a CDL who has had to take specialized driver training and probably spends more time behind the wheel than most police should have a good reason and be exempt from the laws as well. Correct?

As for the yelling, I know a lot of women (and some men) who would misconstrue a stern "You need to slow down" as YELLING.

I wonder if the officer from Pa. has a dashcam of the incident.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:10:58 AM EST
I can understand why a officer would stop another officer driving a marked or unmarked unit, if you thought that something wasn't right. Maybe seeing two female deputies tranporting a male arrestee did it for the trooper. But, after stopping and making sure everything was legit, that should have been the end of it. There's never any excuse for a LEO to yell at a motorist, be it another cop or civilian. You want to write them, do it, but be nice.

Sounds like the trooper needs to remember that when a motorist breaks the law, it's not a personal insult against him.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:29:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By honorabledog:
I'm not a member of LEO, but my take on it would be it's best to hear the Troopers side of the story before condemning him for pulling over the two Deputy's. If he pulled them over and yelled at them then maybe they were doing more than just speeding a little. Think about it if it was your sector and some outside agency came rolling through 25+miles over the speed limit. That's disrespectful to say the least. But then again I'm not a cop

Eta:spellcheck


That sounds like gangs fighting over turf.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:53:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:47:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 8:53:56 AM EST by coconut1]
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
My understanding is unless responding to an emergency call police vehicles are subject to the exact same traffic laws as all other vehicles. I can understand not wanting the prisoner in your car any longer than necessary but what exactly is a chained and caged man gonna do?


Yelling is bad form. Write the cite and deal with it professionally.


Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?


This, or, like I had, smash his head repeatably into the cage screaming police brutality. Then after arriving at the jail being denied by the nurse and having to be transported to a Hosp to get cleared, then going back to the jail and going home to find another IA complaint. Good thing for in car video.

Think about it if it was your sector and some outside agency came rolling through 25+miles over the speed limit. That's disrespectful to say the least.

Someone speeding is not a respecting the law or the cop issue. If we all rolled around taking everyone speeding and running red lights as a personal challenge to us, then I think the communities we served would be in a world of trouble. If I see another agency driving through my district, IN A MARKED CAR, I am going to assume they have shit to do, just like I do at work. If they are in their POV, not cool and obviously not business. If you think someone speeding is disrespectful, you have all kinds of problems. I would hate to see your reaction when someone actually challenges you.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 12:19:00 PM EST
Speeding is a broad term. It means going over the limit. How fast is the real question. Maybe I missed the answer somewhere.

Was it like the Pasaic county deputies doing over 100, returning from Katrina?

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 12:27:41 PM EST
All they would have had to do was go with the flow of traffic.

Transporting a prisoner isn't a code run [IE exceeding the speed limit] as far as I'm concerned.

However, someone needs to have a bit more professionalism also, yelling and having a fit isn't a behavior an officer should show toward ANYONE on a stop.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 1:35:00 PM EST
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 1:45:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 1:49:53 PM EST by bruh44]
Wow, that's a new level in jackassary. I would definitely not pull a marked car. on the other hand I try not to speed when on duty. If they were driving VERY fast I might, but I'd have them put on their overheads to avoid a scene, and talk to the driver away from the prisoner.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:12:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:39:58 PM EST
IF this prisoner were such a threat that the deputies needed to expedite his transport then there are ways of going about it.

I was sitting at an intersection and out of nowhere a jackbooted (no thug) motorcycle officer quickly made his way to the intersection with lights flashing and sirens wailing. He expertly stopped ALL traffic. He then proceded to clear the left turn lanes. Then he kept ALL traffic stopped for what seemed like 2-3 minutes but was really probably less than 30 seconds. All of the sudden a tan unmarked cruiser (had antennae and interceptor badge) wisked through the intersection at probably 20-25 (guestimate) over the limit. I noticed the tag was from an adjoining state. There were two people (officers?) in the front and one (prisoner?) in the back. Whoever was driving was doing some of the most aggressive driving I have ever seen on any public road. They were headed in the general direction of an area with local, state, and federal court houses. I presumed the incident was the need to get someone (important or bad I don't know) between points a and b RIGHT NOW. The cooperation between state agencies is what sealed the deal for me. I would also venture to speculate that had another officer tried to stop the tan car they would have kept on rolling and handled it over the radio and not stopped until they reached their destination. I got the sense that it was that urgent by the actions of all those involved.

I'm not sensing that level of urgency from the OP.

I also know a guard who has expressed some extreme displeasures when assigned to transport duty. Namely having to transport a prisoner that will take him well past the end of his shift and having to miss important events. He has said he doesn't waste any time in a situation like that. I don't know exactly what that means but I have a hunch.

If I were a betting man I would wager that the situation the OP describes is closer to my second example than my first.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:46:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.

So basically you are saying you know nothing about this particular situation except for all of the speculation that is being spewed. With having no verifiable facts, you jump to an contumacious conclusion that fits with your scenario that all cops look down on people that are not in LE.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:49:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By shrikefan:
IF this prisoner were such a threat that the deputies needed to expedite his transport then there are ways of going about it.

I was sitting at an intersection and out of nowhere a jackbooted (no thug) motorcycle officer quickly made his way to the intersection with lights flashing and sirens wailing. He expertly stopped ALL traffic. He then proceded to clear the left turn lanes. Then he kept ALL traffic stopped for what seemed like 2-3 minutes but was really probably less than 30 seconds. All of the sudden a tan unmarked cruiser (had antennae and interceptor badge) wisked through the intersection at probably 20-25 (guestimate) over the limit. I noticed the tag was from an adjoining state. There were two people (officers?) in the front and one (prisoner?) in the back. Whoever was driving was doing some of the most aggressive driving I have ever seen on any public road. They were headed in the general direction of an area with local, state, and federal court houses. I presumed the incident was the need to get someone (important or bad I don't know) between points a and b RIGHT NOW. The cooperation between state agencies is what sealed the deal for me. I would also venture to speculate that had another officer tried to stop the tan car they would have kept on rolling and handled it over the radio and not stopped until they reached their destination. I got the sense that it was that urgent by the actions of all those involved.

I'm not sensing that level of urgency from the OP.

I also know a guard who has expressed some extreme displeasures when assigned to transport duty. Namely having to transport a prisoner that will take him well past the end of his shift and having to miss important events. He has said he doesn't waste any time in a situation like that. I don't know exactly what that means but I have a hunch.

If I were a betting man I would wager that the situation the OP describes is closer to my second example than my first.
Again, we have an opinion woven from pure speculation.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:49:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


UHH....two wrongs don't make a right. Ever heard that before?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 5:53:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.

So basically you are saying you know nothing about this particular situation except for all of the speculation that is being spewed. With having no verifiable facts, you jump to an contumacious conclusion that fits with your scenario that all cops look down on people that are not in LE.


And you do?

Most departments don't give you carte blanche to speed needlessly while on a mundane chore like prisoner transport. Most dept regs usually state that you are to drive following all applicable traffic laws unless one codes, goes in pursuit, ect. Do you disagree that that is the norm in most departments as far as proceedures go?



Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:08:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.

So basically you are saying you know nothing about this particular situation except for all of the speculation that is being spewed. With having no verifiable facts, you jump to an contumacious conclusion that fits with your scenario that all cops look down on people that are not in LE.


You said it not fxn.

1387, would you agree that police officers hold other officers to a different standard than the rest of society? Here is a link that a lot of officers have admitted to different standards.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:31:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2009 6:46:22 PM EST by nynalidge]
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By shrikefan:
If they broke the law then they should be held accountable. As most police here will say to civilians - don't drive over the speed limit if you don't want to get stopped for speeding. Turnabout is fair play.

Oh and IBTSS on 1!!

Please pay attention to what forum you are posting in


Please explain. Did I post something that was wrong or in bad taste? If so, my appologies and please erase it.


Well, I did not see anything wrong with that take on it Oh yeah , the yelling was a bit inappropriate though
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:41:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
All they would have had to do was go with the flow of traffic.

Transporting a prisoner isn't a code run [IE exceeding the speed limit] as far as I'm concerned.

However, someone needs to have a bit more professionalism also, yelling and having a fit isn't a behavior an officer should show toward ANYONE on a stop.


This.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:52:05 PM EST
Professional courtesy is not a bad thing. What happens when an officer gets caught doing something bad like drug dealing? He's told he should have known better and gets the worst of it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I agree with it, but for petty things such as speeding, I don't mess with cops. Not only are cops better trained to drive like that than most people, MOST of them know when and where it's safer to do it. I did chew a CA city cop out a few months back, but she was 22 year old (obviously a newby) and driving close to 60 in a 25 though an area that was known for bears, and mule deer. Really she's lucky she didn't killer herself, and the friend she was with. I was pretty close to writing her. I kinda wanted to, but as I said I try not to mess with cops over little things. Now DUI is a different story. I'm not willing to take that chance for anyone.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 6:59:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By bruh44:
Professional courtesy is not a bad thing. What happens when an officer gets caught doing something bad like drug dealing? He's told he should have known better and gets the worst of it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I agree with it, but for petty things such as speeding, I don't mess with cops. Not only are cops better trained to drive like that than most people, MOST of them know when and where it's safer to do it. I did chew a CA city cop out a few months back, but she was 22 year old (obviously a newby) and driving close to 60 in a 25 though an area that was known for bears, and mule deer. Really she's lucky she didn't killer herself, and the friend she was with. I was pretty close to writing her. I kinda wanted to, but as I said I try not to mess with cops over little things. Now DUI is a different story. I'm not willing to take that chance for anyone.


60 in a 25 is a little thing? That'll probably get you a ride to the pokey in a lot of places - if you are NOT a police officer.

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:12:20 PM EST
If I were driving with a prisoner in the car, I would have never pulled over. Call my supervisor and talk to him/her. I don't know the state trooper from a hole in the wall. Could have been a ploy with a stolen/made up cruiser to free the prisoner.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:20:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By shrikefan:
Originally Posted By bruh44:
Professional courtesy is not a bad thing. What happens when an officer gets caught doing something bad like drug dealing? He's told he should have known better and gets the worst of it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I agree with it, but for petty things such as speeding, I don't mess with cops. Not only are cops better trained to drive like that than most people, MOST of them know when and where it's safer to do it. I did chew a CA city cop out a few months back, but she was 22 year old (obviously a newby) and driving close to 60 in a 25 though an area that was known for bears, and mule deer. Really she's lucky she didn't killer herself, and the friend she was with. I was pretty close to writing her. I kinda wanted to, but as I said I try not to mess with cops over little things. Now DUI is a different story. I'm not willing to take that chance for anyone.


60 in a 25 is a little thing? That'll probably get you a ride to the pokey in a lot of places - if you are NOT a police officer.

Where would that get you taken to jail for?

Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:20:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:

Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.

So basically you are saying you know nothing about this particular situation except for all of the speculation that is being spewed. With having no verifiable facts, you jump to an contumacious conclusion that fits with your scenario that all cops look down on people that are not in LE.


And you do?

Most departments don't give you carte blanche to speed needlessly while on a mundane chore like prisoner transport. Most dept regs usually state that you are to drive following all applicable traffic laws unless one codes, goes in pursuit, ect. Do you disagree that that is the norm in most departments as far as proceedures go?




I never said I did. Speeding and driving recklessly will catch everyone's attention. I retired from Southern California where everyone is speeding. Consequently, my views of exceeding the speed limit are not as harsh as someone in another locale where the speed limit is vigorously enforced. Like I said in my 1st post, I was ticketed in uniform driving a marked vehicle by the CHP. I was a rookie and just sucked it up.

I'm not sure what most departments authorize. I've been retired for almost 5 years and worked for 25 years. In the Academy, the P&Ps are ingrained in your brain. That includes vehicle operation. Basically, I can remember that unless you were actively engaged in LE activity, you were expected to obey the traffic laws. In reality, how many times have you looked down and realized you were speeding? Many people get a break when they are speeding. Doctors, citizens, relatives, and many others. There is a lot of descretion involved and if you are being a dick, don't expect any breaks. If you are courteous your chances are pretty good, except from the CHP.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:23:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Vinnie:
If I were driving with a prisoner in the car, I would have never pulled over. Call my supervisor and talk to him/her. I don't know the state trooper from a hole in the wall. Could have been a ploy with a stolen/made up cruiser to free the prisoner.

This. Use the radio...They have a dispatcher to dispatcher frequency in San Diego County.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 8:40:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By fxntime:
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
I love all the Non LEOS in here applauding the trooper for the stop. There is a thing called professional courtesy....for the folks that dont do our job, that may seem unfair but you know what I bet at yer job u dont gotta worry about somebody pulling a gun on you, or wanting to kill you just because of the job you have chosen to do. We drive fast for a living, we dont have to be running lights and sirens to a hot call to still be in a hurry. Granted I'm not saying driving 20+ without lights and sirens is accepatable. Im grateful that in the area I work in, all the agencies get along...for the most part. State, County and City, we all back each other up. I have had numerous times where I got a patrol unit driving over the limit, but once I catch up and realize it I back off.....to stop a marked patrol vehicle and on top of that lecture, to me is just in bad taste......when agencies fued over stupid shit like this, its not only bad for the public image, but what about when u need cover and yer own are farther out than another agency, who you have a beef with?

The better choice would have been, catch up to the vehicle, get a car number, find out what agency and call that agency.....but to stop a marked patrol vehicle, with a prisoner no less....not good.


Why because "you" are somehow "special" and deserve "special treatment"? What you are saying is why so many people no longer respect the law enforcement profession, you have your "set of rules" and another for the mere peons. This was no code call and speeding was inappropriate. This was nothing more then a transporting of a prisoner which happens all over the US hundreds of times a day.

So what does your handbook say about driving when not on a code call? I'd bet it says you will follow the applicable traffic laws and if you violate them and there is a complaint that can be proven, you'll probably get your ass chewed out by someone higher in the COC.




I'm not saying we are above the law....if a cop is commiting a crime, they should be held to a higher standard....and usually are and made an example of....now traffic laws, unless the person's driving is placing others in danger than I see no problem. And before someone starts jumping my shit for that comment I also will point out that we go through more training than the average driver, coupled with the fact that we drive fast on a daily basis (and yes I'm talking driving code 3) And I will admit there is a sort of brother hood among LE, and until you have done our job you will know nothing about it.......and speaking of such, why are you even in a forum FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT in the first place??? go back to GD if you wanna bitch about cops!

The problem with this whole thread is no one knows how fast they were driving, and we are all merely speculating.....if they were doing 15-20 over the limit, I would say getting stopped is rediculous! But if they were doing over 100mph, then maybe they needed to be called out, though I still feel stopping them on the side of the road and yelling at them was unnacceptable, the better more tasteful option would have either to called the agency they were from and filed a complaint if he felt so inclined.

All this being said, I will be completely honest, unless I am driving to a call that maybe doesnt require code 3 driving, but an expedited response is necassary I will not drive more than 10-15 over the limit on the highway and I am ussually doing the speed limit or no more than 5-10 above anywhere else. I also work nights, where there are less people on the road, when I am driving around the public I follow the traffic laws, come to a COMPLETE stop at stop signs, use my signal when making turns/lane changes and do not drive fast....I feel I have an image to uphold to the public that doesnt make people feel I am some how abusing my power....Most of the time, I feel like I have to drive better than most citizens get away with, at least from me (I am very leniant when it comes to traffic enforcement and easily give 3 times more warnings than tickets).
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 12:47:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By beavo451:
Originally Posted By honorabledog:
I'm not a member of LEO, but my take on it would be it's best to hear the Troopers side of the story before condemning him for pulling over the two Deputy's. If he pulled them over and yelled at them then maybe they were doing more than just speeding a little. Think about it if it was your sector and some outside agency came rolling through 25+miles over the speed limit. That's disrespectful to say the least. But then again I'm not a cop

Eta:spellcheck


That sounds like gangs fighting over turf.
I see alot of folks commenting as a civilian would if they had been pulled over by a cop they felt hurt their feelings. If this story was about two female civilians getting pulled over and then crying about unfair treatment, its a fact most here would take the Troopers side. Saying "I was only speeding a little" isn't going to cut it. But you throw some uniforms and a logo on the side of the car and all of a sudden the Trooper was being disrespectful? I think an officer breaking laws no matter how trivial they consider them in another officers location is disrespectful. I tend to believe that if they were driving in a manner that the Trooper felt he needed to pull them especialy given who/what they were then maybe....just maybe, they deserved it.


Link Posted: 8/4/2009 12:58:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By coconut1:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
My understanding is unless responding to an emergency call police vehicles are subject to the exact same traffic laws as all other vehicles. I can understand not wanting the prisoner in your car any longer than necessary but what exactly is a chained and caged man gonna do?


Yelling is bad form. Write the cite and deal with it professionally.


Take a dump?
Who says he hasn't notified "friends" of his impending transfer?


This, or, like I had, smash his head repeatably into the cage screaming police brutality. Then after arriving at the jail being denied by the nurse and having to be transported to a Hosp to get cleared, then going back to the jail and going home to find another IA complaint. Good thing for in car video.

Think about it if it was your sector and some outside agency came rolling through 25+miles over the speed limit. That's disrespectful to say the least.

Someone speeding is not a respecting the law or the cop issue. If we all rolled around taking everyone speeding and running red lights as a personal challenge to us, then I think the communities we served would be in a world of trouble. If I see another agency driving through my district, IN A MARKED CAR, I am going to assume they have shit to do, just like I do at work. If they are in their POV, not cool and obviously not business. If you think someone speeding is disrespectful, you have all kinds of problems. I would hate to see your reaction when someone actually challenges you.


I think you meant to quote me but you got something switched up in there. Your assessment of me and my post based on that one quote is absolutely brilliant .
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