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Posted: 7/13/2017 12:10:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 12:19:25 PM EDT
Why is this a sticky in GD?
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 12:29:55 PM EDT
Yeah, fucking fags talk about guns on a gun forum.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 12:35:33 PM EDT
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 12:36:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Yeah, fucking fags talk about guns on a gun forum.
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Exactly! This isn't a bullet forum! Getouttache!
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 12:57:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
View Quote
Are you serious? Basic physics. A bullet only drops in speed after leaving the barrel. 
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:05:45 PM EDT
Well, this thread is off to a great start.
Thanks for the video and the work involved, BlueFalcon. I have wondered about this stuff.

Have you done the IMI heavy OTM bullets in factory loadings yet?
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:11:13 PM EDT
Glad to see it performs well. I've had my OH SHIT mags filled with this stuff for a while, which was suggested to me here as a good alternative to 75gr TAP, which I could not find.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:12:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ohio:
Well, this thread is off to a great start.
Thanks for the video and the work involved, BlueFalcon. I have wondered about this stuff.

Have you done the IMI heavy OTM bullets in factory loadings yet?
View Quote
Aren't those just SMK's?
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:14:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
View Quote
I understand some folks want the terminals tested at xxx yards. Film some. "Standard" testing is done at specific, repeatable and measurable circumstances. 30 feet primary distance, 60 feet for a secondary distance. The gel is temperature controlled, mixed to a standard and calibrated by a BB shot from a certain distance, at a certain speed, and expected to penetrate 3-3.5 in IIRC
Bullet tests aren't just some Bubba going out and shooting a bowl of jello. They are also a measuring device. A result of X indicates a result of Y should be expected in a live target. We lose sight of this too often.
Chopping Block, MrGuns and many of the others that do this, and stick to the FBI standards as closely as they can, are a special group. Thanks to all of you.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:15:52 PM EDT
Is this the serbian brand? They were dirt cheap, plentiful and good enough to shoot back in the early 2000s.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:16:05 PM EDT
I seem to recall, a member from Texas has some high praise for this load and bullet against feral hogs.

@Ponyboy
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:24:57 PM EDT
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:25:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lostintejas:
I understand some folks want the terminals tested at xxx yards. Film some. "Standard" testing is done at specific, repeatable and measurable circumstances. 30 feet primary distance, 60 feet for a secondary distance. The gel is temperature controlled, mixed to a standard and calibrated by a BB shot from a certain distance, at a certain speed, and expected to penetrate 3-3.5 in IIRC
Bullet tests aren't just some Bubba going out and shooting a bowl of jello. They are also a measuring device. A result of X indicates a result of Y should be expected in a live target. We lose sight of this too often.
Chopping Block, MrGuns and many of the others that do this, and stick to the FBI standards as closely as they can, are a special group. Thanks to all of you.
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Originally Posted By lostintejas:
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
I understand some folks want the terminals tested at xxx yards. Film some. "Standard" testing is done at specific, repeatable and measurable circumstances. 30 feet primary distance, 60 feet for a secondary distance. The gel is temperature controlled, mixed to a standard and calibrated by a BB shot from a certain distance, at a certain speed, and expected to penetrate 3-3.5 in IIRC
Bullet tests aren't just some Bubba going out and shooting a bowl of jello. They are also a measuring device. A result of X indicates a result of Y should be expected in a live target. We lose sight of this too often.
Chopping Block, MrGuns and many of the others that do this, and stick to the FBI standards as closely as they can, are a special group. Thanks to all of you.
Standardizing is great, but "you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away" is just derp. Loads have gained their maximum velocity at the muzzle
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:25:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ohio:
Well, this thread is off to a great start.
Thanks for the video and the work involved, BlueFalcon. I have wondered about this stuff.

Have you done the IMI heavy OTM bullets in factory loadings yet?
View Quote
Not yet.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:29:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
View Quote
If you are serious GTFO and go home.  Get your shine box maybe?
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:31:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
View Quote
As you know, that will depend on your rifle. I normally get about 1.5" from PPU 75 gr BTHP with a 16" carbine. I once got just under 1", but that was a five shot group.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:31:39 PM EDT
I bought a case of it for my 1:7 build and it does very well. I found the gel results very gratifying. I ended up using 77gr IMI 'Razor Core' for this rifle but I kept the PPU 75gr. I also have two cases of the PPU 'M855' which is also very good ammo. I am using PPU 69gr in my Colt with 1:9 barrel, which I can shoot into an inch at 50 yds with a red dot from sand bags. I have never found any 'bad' PPU ammo.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:31:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ricomock:
Standardizing is great, but "you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away" is just derp. Loads have gained their maximum velocity at the muzzle
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Originally Posted By ricomock:
Originally Posted By lostintejas:
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
I understand some folks want the terminals tested at xxx yards. Film some. "Standard" testing is done at specific, repeatable and measurable circumstances. 30 feet primary distance, 60 feet for a secondary distance. The gel is temperature controlled, mixed to a standard and calibrated by a BB shot from a certain distance, at a certain speed, and expected to penetrate 3-3.5 in IIRC
Bullet tests aren't just some Bubba going out and shooting a bowl of jello. They are also a measuring device. A result of X indicates a result of Y should be expected in a live target. We lose sight of this too often.
Chopping Block, MrGuns and many of the others that do this, and stick to the FBI standards as closely as they can, are a special group. Thanks to all of you.
Standardizing is great, but "you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away" is just derp. Loads have gained their maximum velocity at the muzzle
He winked. I think he was being facetious.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 1:33:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1saxman:
I bought a case of it for my 1:7 build and it does very well. I found the gel results very gratifying. I ended up using 77gr IMI 'Razor Core' for this rifle but I kept the PPU 75gr. I also have two cases of the PPU 'M855' which is also very good ammo. I am using PPU 69gr in my Colt with 1:9 barrel, which I can shoot into an inch at 50 yds with a red dot from sand bags. I have never found any 'bad' PPU ammo.
View Quote
The 69 gr didn't penetrate deeply enough in an earlier test I did. PPU handgun ammo is kinda not great.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 2:27:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
View Quote
Thanks but he didn't evaluate it as match ammo ... it evaluated it as stop the bad person ammo.

things that go bump in the night still get 855 from my M-15 armalite.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 3:18:26 PM EDT
Excellent info as usual Andrew, thanks. 
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 3:47:26 PM EDT
Another great video!

Why is this tacked...lol?

Ammo performed inadequately for either a hunting round or self defense. Much too shallow penetration! I would only use something like this if I lived in an apartment or townhouse.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 3:48:51 PM EDT
Will you test this load sometime with a sbr? Please.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 3:52:05 PM EDT
OP--thanks for using your resources and your time to provide this information to the AR community.

Great stuff.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:02:17 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
View Quote
Huh.....I was getting much better groups out of a 1:8 Wylde 18.5" MSAR. As good as .223 TAP....
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:04:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


As you know, that will depend on your rifle. I normally get about 1.5" from PPU 75 gr BTHP with a 16" carbine. I once got just under 1", but that was a five shot group.
View Quote
Sure I was just curious what barrel you were getting that from?  The ER Shaw stainless at one point in it's life was capable of (give or take) 1moa with some handloads.  I have since removed it from use and rebarreled as it began to open up.  
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:06:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NavyWizard:
Thanks but he didn't evaluate it as match ammo ... it evaluated it as stop the bad person ammo.

things that go bump in the night still get 855 from my M-15 armalite.
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Originally Posted By NavyWizard:
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
Thanks but he didn't evaluate it as match ammo ... it evaluated it as stop the bad person ammo.

things that go bump in the night still get 855 from my M-15 armalite.
I am truly aware of this.  But when you look at the box, all of the ones I have purchased, it says match ammo.  Hence my using the term match ammo.  Being informed helps.  No big.

Things that go bump in the night for me get Gold Dot 64gr.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:10:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bondservant2:
Huh.....I was getting much better groups out of a 1:8 Wylde 18.5" MSAR. As good as .223 TAP....
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Originally Posted By bondservant2:
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Best I have gotten is 2moa in an 18" rifle length ER Shaw stainless barrel.  I have a photo of a 10 shot group in this thread I did.

Here

The group there shows over 2moa.  I have done several groups with this stuff.  Not bad ammo but not what I would call match ammo either.  The gel ballistics I do not have the capability to perform yet.
Huh.....I was getting much better groups out of a 1:8 Wylde 18.5" MSAR. As good as .223 TAP....
Cool, different barrel.  My ER Shaw stainless got the best groups with it.  My CHF CL barrels some of which are capable of 1moa, were getting 2moa+.

My ER Shaw was a 1:8 Wylde.  I have since learned that with these type guns the barrel quality matters way more than a wylde chamber.  I probably won't buy another wylde chamber, at least on purpose.  YMMV.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:13:07 PM EDT
Love the music.

I consider myself one of the early adopters of this round.

I used a free floated 1/8 18" sabre barrel and rra two stage trigger to good effect. Never moa for me, but I'm not an moa shooter. The round was definitely more accurate than I was which is all I can ask for from an affordable and consistent and expanding round.

The early word was they can expand a little and shoot better-than-combat. Seeing as they were probably the only affordable non TAP rounds in that weight class, I loved them. Then pricing went North of 400/k and I lost interest.

Later I really invested in wolf 75gr literally the day they became available. They should have been marked 75" groups. Holy wow, those were terrible rounds.

Great video. I remember there was consistency testing previously and anecdotal effectiveness testing, but your clear after shots of the round post-impact is a new one for me.

Good job.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:33:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Sure I was just curious what barrel you were getting that from?  The ER Shaw stainless at one point in it's life was capable of (give or take) 1moa with some handloads.  I have since removed it from use and rebarreled as it began to open up.  
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Originally Posted By Lug1:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:


As you know, that will depend on your rifle. I normally get about 1.5" from PPU 75 gr BTHP with a 16" carbine. I once got just under 1", but that was a five shot group.
Sure I was just curious what barrel you were getting that from?  The ER Shaw stainless at one point in it's life was capable of (give or take) 1moa with some handloads.  I have since removed it from use and rebarreled as it began to open up.  
Just a 16" 1:9" M4 profile RRA. I'll bet that, on average, that Shaw barrel would shoot circles around my RRA.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:40:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
Love the music.

I consider myself one of the early adopters of this round.

I used a free floated 1/8 18" sabre barrel and rra two stage trigger to good effect. Never moa for me, but I'm not an moa shooter. The round was definitely more accurate than I was which is all I can ask for from an affordable and consistent and expanding round.

The early word was they can expand a little and shoot better-than-combat. Seeing as they were probably the only affordable non TAP rounds in that weight class, I loved them. Then pricing went North of 400/k and I lost interest.

Later I really invested in wolf 75gr literally the day they became available. They should have been marked 75" groups. Holy wow, those were terrible rounds.

Great video. I remember there was consistency testing previously and anecdotal effectiveness testing, but your clear after shots of the round post-impact is a new one for me.

Good job.
View Quote
Thank you. Yeah, I did a gel test on my own channel of the 75 gr Wolf. No bueno.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:52:14 PM EDT
Looks nice! I still have a few boxes of this, I might get more after watching this video.

Testing at different ranges is not a bad idea, not because of any differences in velocity, but because most spitzer bullets don't stabilize until after they have traveled a while.

I once shot a .308 FMJ into a row of OJ cartons. (Poor man's ballistic gelatin).

I was surprised to see it bounce off of the 4th carton, back into the 3rd one, from about 5 yards.

Conducted a similar test at 100 yards, and the bullet drilled through 6 cartons and kept on going.

Range does make a difference in terminal performance, but not because the bullet continues to accelerate after it leaves the barrel.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 5:30:08 PM EDT
While that result could be explained by stability, it can also be a result of lower velocity.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 6:49:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lug1:
If you are serious GTFO and go home.  Get your shine box maybe?
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Originally Posted By Lug1:
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
If you are serious GTFO and go home.  Get your shine box maybe?
He's not and you missed the joke.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 6:59:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
He winked. I think he was being facetious.
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Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By ricomock:
Originally Posted By lostintejas:
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:
Test failure....you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away, if not more, for proper results.
I understand some folks want the terminals tested at xxx yards. Film some. "Standard" testing is done at specific, repeatable and measurable circumstances. 30 feet primary distance, 60 feet for a secondary distance. The gel is temperature controlled, mixed to a standard and calibrated by a BB shot from a certain distance, at a certain speed, and expected to penetrate 3-3.5 in IIRC
Bullet tests aren't just some Bubba going out and shooting a bowl of jello. They are also a measuring device. A result of X indicates a result of Y should be expected in a live target. We lose sight of this too often.
Chopping Block, MrGuns and many of the others that do this, and stick to the FBI standards as closely as they can, are a special group. Thanks to all of you.
Standardizing is great, but "you did not allow the bullet to travel far enough to gain maximum velocity. You need be at least 40 meters away" is just derp. Loads have gained their maximum velocity at the muzzle
He winked. I think he was being facetious.
I've been wondering how to spell that word.

Thank you for testing and posting your results. I've always had great fortune with this ammo
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 7:18:30 PM EDT
Serbs make good kebob remover.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 7:31:40 PM EDT
My favorite ammo. Good to see it works well in a test like this.

Now if I could just find it more regularly...
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 7:33:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2017 7:35:00 PM EDT by AS556]
Love ya buddy but your chrono is fucky.

No way a .223 spec 75gr is going 2800 in that bbl. More like 2550.

Great bullet though and great test as usual. I used to use that for HD before 64gr GD.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/491816_Prvi_Partizan_75_grain_Match_Ammunition___Velocity__Accuracy_and_Terminal_Ballistics.html
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 7:57:11 PM EDT
Shot over 2k of this loading. My SPR does about 1 MOA out of a match barrel. It actually works very well on deer.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 8:01:32 PM EDT
My notes on velocity say 2605 fps out of an 18 tube. Ymmv however.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 8:05:28 PM EDT
Someone got a slider!
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 8:33:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AS556:
Love ya buddy but your chrono is fucky.

No way a .223 spec 75gr is going 2800 in that bbl. More like 2550.

Great bullet though and great test as usual. I used to use that for HD before 64gr GD.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/491816_Prvi_Partizan_75_grain_Match _Ammunition___Velocity__Accuracy_and_Terminal_Ballistics.html
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I'm confident in the velocity result. That's a quality chrono. It was very hot that day, though.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 8:41:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2017 8:41:28 PM EDT by AS556]
That's fair, but heat isnt going to add 300fps IMO. Thanks for taking the time to do it either way
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 8:51:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Lug1:

Things that go bump in the night for me get Gold Dot 64gr.
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Things that go bump in the night for me get a pat on the head and hold my hand to the bathroom. You guys live in exciting places.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 9:11:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cspackler33:
Things that go bump in the night for me get a pat on the head and hold my hand to the bathroom. You guys live in exciting places.
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Originally Posted By cspackler33:
Originally Posted By Lug1:

Things that go bump in the night for me get Gold Dot 64gr.
Things that go bump in the night for me get a pat on the head and hold my hand to the bathroom. You guys live in exciting places.
Nope, we don't live in exciting places, you are just way to serious.  

My kids are 16 and 19.  Nobody holds my hand to the bathroom.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 9:35:13 PM EDT
Impressive.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 10:21:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2017 10:22:52 PM EDT by Ohio]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By toxicbubbles:


I've been wondering how to spell that word.
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"Just remember it's one of a few English words that have all the vowels, in order" he said facetiously.
Link Posted: 7/14/2017 12:55:53 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Lug1:
Nope, we don't live in exciting places, you are just way to serious.  

My kids are 16 and 19.  Nobody holds my hand to the bathroom.
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Originally Posted By Lug1:
Originally Posted By cspackler33:
Originally Posted By Lug1:

Things that go bump in the night for me get Gold Dot 64gr.
Things that go bump in the night for me get a pat on the head and hold my hand to the bathroom. You guys live in exciting places.
Nope, we don't live in exciting places, you are just way to serious.  

My kids are 16 and 19.  Nobody holds my hand to the bathroom.
Yet..........
Link Posted: 7/14/2017 2:11:33 AM EDT
Great video @bluefalcon

Your production of these vids is ever improving.
Link Posted: 7/14/2017 6:47:08 AM EDT
Thanks, great video. 
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