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Posted: 4/21/2011 5:46:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 5:50:33 AM EDT
He can stay at my place anytime he needs to.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 5:54:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 5:58:32 AM EDT
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:00:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:00:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.


If you know your gun has a problem that makes it go full auto sometimes, maybe you should get it fixed instead of ignoring it and loaning it to strangers to use at a public range.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:01:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:05:51 AM EDT
It really doesn't matter what the exact story is here. It's patently obvious that justice was not served.






Welcome home David.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:06:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


What's that quote about the definition of tyranny?  Something about that which is legal for the gov but illegal for the masses?
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:08:01 AM EDT
I wonder if his account is still active?
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:08:04 AM EDT
I never knew that he was aware of his weapon malfunctioning.  



In that case play stupid game and win stupid prizes.  Also I do not trust the ATF.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:08:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


in "the land of the free" there should be no such thing as "playing with fire" in regards to amended rights.


Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:08:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


He definitely got fucked over in the courtroom when the factory records of the rifles configuration at shipment were excluded when the .gov argued that they are private tax documents.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:08:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.


This is a good summary, much fail by all parties involved.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:09:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.
Me - I don't know enough about the facts.
Glad he's out.

Either way, no free man should be restricted from owning any weapon, not even full auto rifles.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:11:54 AM EDT
As always, fuck the ATF.

I hope David finds some calm and peace in his return to life.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:13:02 AM EDT
Guilty until proven otherwise. :(

Sad to see he had to sit for this.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:15:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2011 6:19:16 AM EDT by KJCA3]
I know its Wikipedia but here is what i found on it

David Olofson

So if this is correct the guy he let borrow the gun was seemingly paid off by the ATF or Olofson knew the rifle had an issue already. Im not saying either one is right by the way.

ETA: here is something Olofson posted on another forum
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:16:05 AM EDT
Nevermind
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:37:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:39:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


My opinion is that it really doesn't matter.  The laws are fucked up and need to be fucking repealed.  BATFE needs a major fucking overhaul and enema inserted.  

My problem with this is that there is a law on the books that makes absolutely no fucking sense where the mechanical operation of a gun may be deemed illegal.  It's not a situation where a real crime has been committed where someone has been harmed or money taken, a gun fired more than one round during a trigger pull.  Given what I've seen of the case I tend to lean towards David's side of the argument.  I also think that BATFE's efforts would be better spent focusing on real issues vs. manufactured ones like Olofson or project gun walker.  

I would put forth that BATFE would be better received and would accomplish more if they'd work WITH gun owners and the industry vs. viewiing us as the enemy.  Instead, stop trying to fuck people over who haven't harmed anyone and go after the people that are killing people, destroying lives and truly undermining the safety of the US.  

David Olofson didn't deserve what he got even if BATFE was correct.  David harmed no one.  His life was destroyed because of a short sighted bullshit law that has no fucking legitimate right to even be on the books.  How much time, manpower, and money did BATFE spend investigating him and putting him in jail while there are people committing murders across this nation who don't even get a glance from BATFE?  

Basically, we're all Americans.  We're on the same side.  Stop trying to make us into enemies.  Go after the real criminals and stop trying to bullshit the American People.  BATFE can pat itself on the back with the conviction of David Olofson and think of it a great win.  Guess what?  David is a politican martyr now.  You've created a rallying point.  Many of my customers know who David is and use his situation as justification for what they are preparing for.  BATFE played the mad scientist and they don't even realize that they created a monster that is NOT going to go away.  

I'll give BATFE a hint... forget about machine guns in the hands of the public.  Go after the PEOPLE that use ANY guns or any other weapons in the commission of a real crime.  Concentrate your efforts on home invaders, serial killers, bank robbers, and the like.  Do some real good please.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:44:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.


I agree.

In an ideal America, there would be no NFA, and this wouldn't be an issue, but he was knowingly playing with fire. And even with the NFA, a reasonable law enforcement response would be to confiscate the AR and give him a stern warning, not ruin his life. Although even that might have been possible for some other regular Joe who had the problem AR, if his checkered past and leaving the military under a cloud of suspicion did not help him any either.

It was a railroad job on a dumbass. No winners here, only losers.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:49:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It really doesn't matter what the exact story is here. It's patently obvious that justice was not served.


Welcome home David.


30 months over a $200 tax.  I agree.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:55:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2011 6:56:12 AM EDT by EXPcustom]
If I remember correctly was not the ATF already sniffing around David's place and giving him a hard time for assembling stripped lowers for people? If I am remembering this correctly he would do a group buy at the local FFL then sell the built lowers to a few locals. The malfunction issue was what the ATF finally needed to nail him?









I personally think the guy got railroaded but if I am remembering all the facts correctly he had plenty of time to keep a lower profile...


 
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:57:06 AM EDT
I remember several long posts in the legal section when this happened.  The guy was / is a member here.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 6:57:51 AM EDT
Glad to hear he's out.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:05:56 AM EDT
Note to self: If I have first-hand knowledge that my gun is *capable* of firing fully-automatic...

Get it fixed.

I am not a gunsmith, but I can fix almost anything on my AR... And there are free videos, and knowledge forums (speak arfcom) where you can learn how to fix things if you don't want to pay for them...

I have a buddy from church who was telling me that he got in trouble for bump-firing at the local public range. He knew I was into guns, and wholly supportive of the second amendment, and he thought he would get some support from me. I wasn't wholly supportive, and I told him why. It made him look irresponsible to others, and it put him in a position where he had to explain himself to others... No one would have noticed him at all, he would have been on no ones radar, except he decided to act a little unsafe in the eyes of others.... Add in the fact that some people don't know what "bump firing" is... I told him there was plenty of BLM land where he could do whatever he wanted... Shoot naked if you want to... But at the public range, you need to know that you are under a microscope...

Yeah, if your gun is capable of firing full-auto, with modiified ammo, or with modificications to the weapon, and it is not a registered MG,  then you need to get your gun fixed. We all know the laws of the land, and we all get the freedom to decide whether we follow them or not...

Sure, I would love to see the law changed. But until then, my efforts will be on electing officials who are pro-2nd amendment... Not on breaking the laws as they stand...
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:07:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.



+1

and I will add: Common sense doesn't seem all that common these days.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:11:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wildearp:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
It really doesn't matter what the exact story is here. It's patently obvious that justice was not served.


Welcome home David.


30 months over a $200 tax.  I agree.


Not what he was charged with or convicted of.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

From annoying the first judge ('gold fringed flag crap) to having a less than competent public defender, and pissing off the ATF.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.


Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:12:14 AM EDT
Land of the free.*


*Void where prohibited.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:19:37 AM EDT
FUCK THE AFT
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:20:42 AM EDT
It was this case which first brought me to lurk Arfcom.  I was amazed by the number of 2A "supporters" that sided with the ATF even though it was clear they would pull any sort of shenanigan to get a conviction.

Folks, if you think what happened to D.O. had any similarities to "justice" you need your head checked.

For the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" folks: 30 fucking months is an inordinate punishment for any alleged stupidity on his part, I can only hope you don't get fucked so hard, but if I knew for a fact it did happen to one of you, I would definitly laugh heartily at the "karma" you recieved.

Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:20:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hard_Rock:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


My opinion is that it really doesn't matter.  The laws are fucked up and need to be fucking repealed.  BATFE needs a major fucking overhaul and enema inserted.  

My problem with this is that there is a law on the books that makes absolutely no fucking sense where the mechanical operation of a gun may be deemed illegal.  It's not a situation where a real crime has been committed where someone has been harmed or money taken, a gun fired more than one round during a trigger pull.  Given what I've seen of the case I tend to lean towards David's side of the argument.  I also think that BATFE's efforts would be better spent focusing on real issues vs. manufactured ones like Olofson or project gun walker.  

I would put forth that BATFE would be better received and would accomplish more if they'd work WITH gun owners and the industry vs. viewiing us as the enemy.  Instead, stop trying to fuck people over who haven't harmed anyone and go after the people that are killing people, destroying lives and truly undermining the safety of the US.  

David Olofson didn't deserve what he got even if BATFE was correct.  David harmed no one.  His life was destroyed because of a short sighted bullshit law that has no fucking legitimate right to even be on the books.  How much time, manpower, and money did BATFE spend investigating him and putting him in jail while there are people committing murders across this nation who don't even get a glance from BATFE?  

Basically, we're all Americans.  We're on the same side.  Stop trying to make us into enemies.  Go after the real criminals and stop trying to bullshit the American People.  BATFE can pat itself on the back with the conviction of David Olofson and think of it a great win.  Guess what?  David is a politican martyr now.  You've created a rallying point.  Many of my customers know who David is and use his situation as justification for what they are preparing for.  BATFE played the mad scientist and they don't even realize that they created a monster that is NOT going to go away.  

I'll give BATFE a hint... forget about machine guns in the hands of the public.  Go after the PEOPLE that use ANY guns or any other weapons in the commission of a real crime.  Concentrate your efforts on home invaders, serial killers, bank robbers, and the like.  Do some real good please.


the real reason for batfes existence is to remove guns from we the people. once you understand that everything they do makes sense.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:21:47 AM EDT




Originally Posted By Ridge_Runner_5:



Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:

Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.



Me - I don't know enough about the facts.



Glad he's out.




I'd say it was a combination of both. He knew of the problem and refused to fix it, but the ATF put in a lot of effort to reproduce the condition, even going as far as producing poorly made ammunition.




He not only KNEW of the problem, he encouraged it.  He deliberately bought soft primered ammo, gave it to the guy he loaned the gun to, and told him how to make it happen.  He still got screwed, but he practically bent over and spread his cheeks.



For the record, I think the NFA is Uncnstitutional.  But so long as it's on the books, you fuck with it at your peril.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:24:39 AM EDT
I looked into this case and it's complete bull, the malfunction was only when the selector was set on auto, so to a person that didn't know better it was only a qwerk where the gun jammed if you moved the selector too far, kind of like on a WASR where the gun won't fire unless the selector is in just the right spot. Then the "M-16 parts" he supposedly was looking for on the internet were accessories like bipods, mag pouches, and crap like that it was even in the posts the atf used as evidence where he specifically said he didn't want parts. The poor guy was railroaded, I can only hope that the agent in charge of this injustice gets what he deserves.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:26:23 AM EDT
In for the shitstorm that follows any thread about Olofson.  

This will not end well.  


Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:32:06 AM EDT
IN ON 1 FOR THE TRAIN WRECK
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:38:34 AM EDT
Isn't there a video floating around somewhere of an ATF 'examiner' bragging about being able to make any gun fire full auto by overlubing?    Wonder why that wasn't introduced as evidence..

AFARR
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:52:49 AM EDT
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:53:04 AM EDT
The NRA did nothing for this guy ,and i now do nothing for the NRA
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:58:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2011 7:59:04 AM EDT by swingset]





Originally Posted By M3A1:



I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.



It doesn't take a conspiracy, when you have political pressure, incompetence and blind obedience to unconstitutional laws.





That will do the work of 10 committees of evil conspiring agents. In this case, the ATF went beyond investigation to produce a conviction. They acted criminally.





The truth is the results are the same, either way.





 
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 7:58:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M3A1:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.


don't have time to give your post the time required to respond to, however, I will leave you with this:



Not a random citizen, but they fucked him over nonetheless

Gunrunner

Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:01:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/21/2011 9:31:40 AM EDT by cyborg543]
You guys are being stupid about this topic.

There's only one practical thing to do:

Always follow the gun laws right down to the smallest details.   Always be clearly and completely on the right side of the law.

If the legality of an item or activity is unclear, then don't go within 100 miles of it.

These gun laws are serious business, you dick around with them at your own extreme peril.

This guy Olaphson monkeyed around at the edge of the minefield and got blown up. Surprize.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:03:46 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Hard_Rock:



Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:

Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.



Me - I don't know enough about the facts.



Glad he's out.




My opinion is that it really doesn't matter.  The laws are fucked up and need to be fucking repealed.  BATFE needs a major fucking overhaul and enema inserted.  



My problem with this is that there is a law on the books that makes absolutely no fucking sense where the mechanical operation of a gun may be deemed illegal.  It's not a situation where a real crime has been committed where someone has been harmed or money taken, a gun fired more than one round during a trigger pull.  Given what I've seen of the case I tend to lean towards David's side of the argument.  I also think that BATFE's efforts would be better spent focusing on real issues vs. manufactured ones like Olofson or project gun walker.  



I would put forth that BATFE would be better received and would accomplish more if they'd work WITH gun owners and the industry vs. viewiing us as the enemy.  Instead, stop trying to fuck people over who haven't harmed anyone and go after the people that are killing people, destroying lives and truly undermining the safety of the US.  



David Olofson didn't deserve what he got even if BATFE was correct.  David harmed no one.  His life was destroyed because of a short sighted bullshit law that has no fucking legitimate right to even be on the books.  How much time, manpower, and money did BATFE spend investigating him and putting him in jail while there are people committing murders across this nation who don't even get a glance from BATFE?  



Basically, we're all Americans.  We're on the same side.  Stop trying to make us into enemies.  Go after the real criminals and stop trying to bullshit the American People.  BATFE can pat itself on the back with the conviction of David Olofson and think of it a great win.  Guess what?  David is a politican martyr now.  You've created a rallying point.  Many of my customers know who David is and use his situation as justification for what they are preparing for.  BATFE played the mad scientist and they don't even realize that they created a monster that is NOT going to go away.  



I'll give BATFE a hint... forget about machine guns in the hands of the public.  Go after the PEOPLE that use ANY guns or any other weapons in the commission of a real crime.  Concentrate your efforts on home invaders, serial killers, bank robbers, and the like.  Do some real good please.
Well said.

You know somewhere I always think there is a part in the law that you need to have "intent" to break the law.

Intent, as in you did so knowingly and on purpose, right?





 
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:16:08 AM EDT
But for the grace of God go I



In the late 90's I was at an indoor range in Jersey

I had my jersey compliant oly arms with me.

I was shooting in the next to last lane on the left.



There were about 10 off duty NJ state troopers practicing to my right.

I fired 2 or 3 rds

The next time I pulled the trigger a burst of around 5 rds came out.

You could clearly tell it was auto fire.

I had no idea what happened.

I leaned back in the stall and saw 10 faces leaning back and looking my way.



One of the Troopers (a Sgt) I think approached me and said:

"machine gun"?

I said no

Sgt: may I look at the weapon (hands out"?

He looked it over, looked at the safety, opened it and looked at the fire control parts.

Asked if he could fire it

I said go ahead

He fire it 8 or 9 times and hands it back to me and said , you better have that looked at.

I said i will

I called Oly the next day and read them the fucking riot act.

I sent the entire gun in to them.

about 2 weeks later they called and said my gun was on it's way back to me.

I asked them what was wrong and they flat told me they were instructed not to discuss "my malfunction"

They knew there was a problem out there and they were already protecting themselves from civil liability.




Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:24:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.

Me - I don't know enough about the facts.

Glad he's out.


Refer to the original  documents.  The Constitution of the United States.

That should let you know if he deserved be in jail.

TXL
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:33:04 AM EDT
The man hurt no one, and the only laws he was accused and convicted of violating are blatantly unconstitutional.

Our country has a debt to this man.  It doesn't matter how he came to be standing in court for violating the NFA, the fact of the matter is, the law should not exist in the first place. This man is one of thousands who have been sent to prison for claiming their birthright as an American, in contravention to the law.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:33:31 AM EDT
Then the government reported a change in the type of ammunition used, and the rifle loosed off several shots and jammed.



I think it was that mythical 'fully automatic ammuntion' I have heard so much about.
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:45:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By frogdiver:
Then the government reported a change in the type of ammunition used, and the rifle loosed off several shots and jammed.



I think it was that mythical 'fully automatic ammuntion' I have heard so much about.


Filing down the primer?
Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:45:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
Originally Posted By Maryland_Shooter:
Depends on who you ask - many think he was playing with fire and knew what was up, others think the ATF did a number on him.


If you know your gun has a problem that makes it go full auto sometimes, maybe you should get it fixed instead of ignoring it and loaning it to strangers to use at a public range.


He should have been prosectued for reckless endangerment or something of the sort, not for making a machine gun or transfering a machine gun.  How anyone can agree with what the ATF did is beyonod me.

Link Posted: 4/21/2011 8:46:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M3A1:
I find it kind of amusing that tinfoilers think ATF agents all get together in the office and conspire to fuck a random citizen over.


You mean like telling the FFL's to let those illegal straw purchases to go forward, even though the FFL knows it's wrong, and knows it's a straw purchase.  All so the anti-gun crowd has ammunition to say that us law abiding gun owners are smuggling guns to mexico for drug runners and militia's?

THAT BATFE??????


TXL
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