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Posted: 8/11/2005 11:48:52 AM EDT
It is interesting to not that most wars are preceeded by films which seek to condition a populace to the idea and generally demonize the potential enemy. These films are either accepted as propaganda or prophecy depending upon an individuals particular point of view.

Examples of pre WWII films are The Great Dictator (1940), Confessions of a Nazi Spy (1939) and Foreign Correspondent (1940) among others. All sought to warn and prepare the nation for possible war against Germany and provide justification for the same.

It is interesting to reflect on the 1980s and note similar efforts. The early 1980s were probably the period when we were at greatest risk for actual war, more than likely of the nuclear variety, since the Cuban Missile Crisis. And the films were there.

WarGames (1983) - Didn't really have an evil "boogeyman" enemy or even a real, actual war but this film did lay the groundwork for the idea that "this could happen today" in terms of a nuclear exchange. The opening scene with Michael Madsen (later famous as Mr. Blond in Resivoir Dogs) and John Spencer (of LA Law fame) preparing to turn their keys was an huge eye opener in 1983.

The Day After (1983) - This one freaked most people out. First they showed it on TV which means more people saw it. Second it demonstrated you could live in the middle of nowhere and be a priority target. And finally it dramatized how much your entire life could change in a single moment. Jason Robards watching the news of a low yield nuclear exchange in Europe between NATO and WARSAW forces in disbelief while other people go about their daily routine completely oblivious to the imminent threat was both powerful and a likely depiction of attitudes among Americans at the time.

Red Dawn (1984) - This is the one that woke most people up. Not as intellectual as The Day After and a film more average Americans could identify with. Nothing like your favorite pop icons running around in the woods with AK-47s fighting Soviet invaders to make the average National Inquirer reader take notice. While lacking in many areas the depictions of how brutal a foreign invasion would be were pretty dead on. Everyones a pacificist until they kill your family and freinds and THEN what the hell are you gonna do? This film was a tough pill for a lot of "sheeple" to swallow.

Amerika (1987) - The last of the major projects about a Soviet invasion of the US. And in some ways the best despite the long, drawn out storyline, uninteresting characters and various other weaknesses. A miniseries that begins 10 years AFTER a successful Soviet victory and depicts what life would be like in our country as a Soviet socialist sattelite in 1997. This one came kinda late in the game and would have been more significant if realesed in 1985 or before (by 1987 Gorbachev was in charge and the threat lessened). But it was still enough to upset the Soviet Union itself (which protested the showing of the miniseries in the US) and provoked Hollywood liberal socialists who all lined up to condemn the film. The fact that it scared, alarmed and upset key groups shows just how "on target" this mini series actually was. And that would probably explain the B List cast.

Now I'm not suggesting the above were US Government "Department of War" production films as we saw in previous conflicts, but I do think we were being conditioned to an "idea."

And I'm really glad I didn't see the balloon go up during the 1980s.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:53:33 AM EDT
Yup.

I think we need a bunch more of these type of movies now to get it across to the sheeple what we are up against now too. I see lots of folks who are sleeping again and need a nice wakeup.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:54:19 AM EDT
so going by precedent we really should be discussing which round is better for zombies?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:55:49 AM EDT
how about "true lies"?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:59:46 AM EDT
I thought you were the movie forum mod.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 11:59:56 AM EDT
Pre-war cartoon:



The artist? Dr. Seuss.



"The Ducktators" from 1940:


Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:00:06 PM EDT
They tried to make a movie like that, True Lies, but of course the ROPers came out crying about how it showed fucking assholes arabs in a bad light.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:03:40 PM EDT

Hey, two words...



Jack

Bauer­



(He's the mack daddy of RoP killaz)
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:03:41 PM EDT
i remember that! in spite of the fact one of the main good guys was an arab as well.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:06:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By phobia:
They tried to make a movie like that, True Lies, but of course the ROPers came out crying about how it showed fucking assholes arabs in a bad light.



Can't forget "The Sum of All Fears."
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:08:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:
Pre-war cartoon:

www.ksu.edu/english/nelp/childlit/seuss/20213.jpeg

The artist? Dr. Seuss.



"The Ducktators" from 1940:

tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/toonfest/lowrez/daffy6213.jpg



Even before that 1936's Flash Gordon serials featured a Emporer Ming who was a thinly veiled caricature of various Japanese stereotypes complete with an evil predisposition.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:09:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
I thought you were the movie forum mod.



Not yet. I guess I need more Zombie posts.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:11:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By BayEagle:
Pre-war cartoon:

www.ksu.edu/english/nelp/childlit/seuss/20213.jpeg

The artist? Dr. Seuss.



"The Ducktators" from 1940:

tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/toonfest/lowrez/daffy6213.jpg



Even before that 1936's Flash Gordon serials featured a Emporer Ming who was a thinly veiled caricature of various Japanese stereotypes complete with an evil predisposition.




1974's Flesh Gordon prepared me for the 80s
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:13:24 PM EDT
There was a made for TV movie. It was like a news team was on location in IIRC at the Boston Harbor, a nuculear weapon was smuggled on board a small fishing boat. Went through a lot of typical tv experts giving their opinions. At the end the live from location reporter was panicy and boom the screen turned to snow and static.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:15:38 PM EDT
You forgot "Testament" from 1983. It was more subtle, but still quite good.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:20:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
You forgot "Testament" from 1983. It was more subtle, but still quite good.



New one on me. Queued on Netflix.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:21:46 PM EDT
I think that the show "24" has done it's job in unveiling the "ROP'ers" threat to humanity.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:30:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By mattja:
You forgot "Testament" from 1983. It was more subtle, but still quite good.



New one on me. Queued on Netflix.



Good movie.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:34:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
It is interesting to not that most wars are preceeded by films which seek to condition a populace to the idea and generally demonize the potential enemy. These films are either accepted as propaganda or prophecy depending upon an individuals particular point of view.



That was true leading up to WWII, but the nuclear war movies your mentioned from the 80's were propaganda tools of the anti-nuke crowd. The goal was to convince people that nothing justifies nuclear war and that we should avoid war no matter what, even if that means taking it in the ass from the Russians.

The people who made those movies were the same people who opposed the Vietnam War.

The goal was to instill fear in the sheeple so they would hopefully vote that warmonger Reagan out of office. Because, if you remember, Reagan was going to lead us into a nuclear war for sure.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:36:17 PM EDT
What about "Countdown to Looking Glass" from 1984 with Scott Glenn. One of the best I've ever seen. The first time I saw that movie there were chills running down my back. When the Nimitz got nuked at the end I just sat there shocked. Spooky movie
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:40:56 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:43:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 12:44:43 PM EDT by Lumpy223]
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 12:43:55 PM EDT
A lot of people don't realize it at first, but Casablanca should be on that list.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:03:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
It is interesting to not that most wars are preceeded by films which seek to condition a populace to the idea and generally demonize the potential enemy. These films are either accepted as propaganda or prophecy depending upon an individuals particular point of view.



That was true leading up to WWII, but the nuclear war movies your mentioned from the 80's were propaganda tools of the anti-nuke crowd. The goal was to convince people that nothing justifies nuclear war and that we should avoid war no matter what, even if that means taking it in the ass from the Russians.

The people who made those movies were the same people who opposed the Vietnam War.

The goal was to instill fear in the sheeple so they would hopefully vote that warmonger Reagan out of office. Because, if you remember, Reagan was going to lead us into a nuclear war for sure.



Ummmm that most certainly was NOT the intent of John Milius who did "Red Dawn" and most assuredly wasn't the message of "Amerika." And I don't remember ANYONE getting warm fuzzies about the Russkies from "The Day After." Your point could somewhat be supported by "WarGames" but that is about it.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:06:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
It is interesting to not that most wars are preceeded by films which seek to condition a populace to the idea and generally demonize the potential enemy. These films are either accepted as propaganda or prophecy depending upon an individuals particular point of view.



That was true leading up to WWII, but the nuclear war movies your mentioned from the 80's were propaganda tools of the anti-nuke crowd. The goal was to convince people that nothing justifies nuclear war and that we should avoid war no matter what, even if that means taking it in the ass from the Russians.

The people who made those movies were the same people who opposed the Vietnam War.

The goal was to instill fear in the sheeple so they would hopefully vote that warmonger Reagan out of office. Because, if you remember, Reagan was going to lead us into a nuclear war for sure.



Ummmm that most certainly was NOT the intent of John Milius who did "Red Dawn" and most assuredly wasn't the message of "Amerika." And I don't remember ANYONE getting warm fuzzies about the Russkies from "The Day After." Your point could somewhat be supported by "WarGames" but that is about it.



I wasn't thinking "War Games" or "Red Dawn." I was thinking "The Day After" and "Testament," as well as several UK-made films of similar propaganda value that were shown on PBS.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:10:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy223:

There was a made for TV movie. It was like a news team was on location in IIRC at the Boston Harbor, a nuculear weapon was smuggled on board a small fishing boat. Went through a lot of typical tv experts giving their opinions. At the end the live from location reporter was panicy and boom the screen turned to snow and static.




I remember that movie. It was pretty damn weird watching something that looked so close to the real thing. I remember the female reporter across the harbor crying after the bomb went off asking if she was going to die because of the radiation.

Weren't the antagonists a bunch of bunny huggers trying to stop pollution or some other such nonsense?



I don't remember. That movie was sometime back in the 80's if IIRC.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:41:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
There was a made for TV movie. It was like a news team was on location in IIRC at the Boston Harbor, a nuculear weapon was smuggled on board a small fishing boat. Went through a lot of typical tv experts giving their opinions. At the end the live from location reporter was panicy and boom the screen turned to snow and static.



Special Bulletin (1983).

It was Charleston, SC.

Worth renting if you can find it.

www.imdb.com/title/tt0086350/
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:42:46 PM EDT
"Under Siege"
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:44:10 PM EDT
Also recommended "Threads" from 1984 if you can find it (could be difficult).

www.imdb.com/title/tt0090163/

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 1:50:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:35:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By phobia:
They tried to make a movie like that, True Lies, but of course the ROPers came out crying about how it showed fucking assholes arabs in a bad light.



Can't forget "The Sum of All Fears."



You mean the neo-fascists setting up the nuke exchange between Russia and the US to get Hitler Junior to take over the world...or the realistic scenario from the book?

That fucking movie pissed me off so fucking much.

FUCK!
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:49:06 PM EDT
The Sum of All Fears movie was ass.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:28:37 PM EDT
"By Dawn's Early Light" was a great HBO war movie that came out in 1990 about a limited nuclear strike from the USSR against the US as retaliation for an exploision in Turkey (?), not caused by the US. The movie setting is with a B-52 crew who drop a few bombs under the direction of the interm president (Sec. of the Interior). I don't remember much about it but do remember that the bomb scene's were pretty good.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:26:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By phobia:
They tried to make a movie like that, True Lies, but of course the ROPers came out crying about how it showed fucking assholes arabs in a bad light.



Can't forget "The Sum of All Fears."



You mean the neo-fascists setting up the nuke exchange between Russia and the US to get Hitler Junior to take over the world...or the realistic scenario from the book?

That fucking movie pissed me off so fucking much.

FUCK!



I was addressing the fact that the movie was completely bastardized to placate the members of a particular religion.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:12:47 PM EDT
I don't see how much if any of this theory applies to Korea or Viet Nam. Perhaps during those times they were relying on the abundance of WWII movies that were being played every weekend on TV between the Lewis & Dean, Abbot & Costello, Godzilla, Beach Blanket and Bowery Boys flicks.

In 1961 when JFK first started officially assigning Green Berets as advisors in vietnam I was not born. When US forces withdrew from Vietnam in 1975 I was in 7th grade. I was at the time confused.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:30:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
There was a made for TV movie. It was like a news team was on location in IIRC at the Boston Harbor, a nuculear weapon was smuggled on board a small fishing boat. Went through a lot of typical tv experts giving their opinions. At the end the live from location reporter was panicy and boom the screen turned to snow and static.



I remember that movie on TV. I can't think of the name though.

There's another movie I'm trying to remember...I think it was on TV in the mid 70s. It was about the US and USSR. I believe the US stopped selling grain to USSR for whatever reason, in retaliation, the USSR dropped commandos into Alaska to sieze the pipeline. Anyone remember the name of that one?

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:02:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By back40:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
There was a made for TV movie. It was like a news team was on location in IIRC at the Boston Harbor, a nuculear weapon was smuggled on board a small fishing boat. Went through a lot of typical tv experts giving their opinions. At the end the live from location reporter was panicy and boom the screen turned to snow and static.



I remember that movie on TV. I can't think of the name though.



I posted the name above.



There's another movie I'm trying to remember...I think it was on TV in the mid 70s. It was about the US and USSR. I believe the US stopped selling grain to USSR for whatever reason, in retaliation, the USSR dropped commandos into Alaska to sieze the pipeline. Anyone remember the name of that one?



World War III (1982) (TV)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0084919/
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:39:58 PM EDT
Speaking of Cold War era Soviet menace flicks, anybody else remember some made for TV flick with Alaska being invaded by the Russians? IIRC, there was a battle to take over a pipeline pump station that was defended by the Alaska NG and chocked full of M16A1 and AK47 goodness.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:49:08 PM EDT
They don't need any movies.


All the Government has to do is to tell the truth of the threats against us and old men will be enlisting to fight!
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 12:38:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By mattja:
You forgot "Testament" from 1983. It was more subtle, but still quite good.



New one on me. Queued on Netflix.



Good movie.



Just watched it. I'm sorry guys but that one was pretty boring.

Seemed like it tried to be as profound and impactful as "On The Beach" but it really missed the mark.

"The Day After" was much better.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 12:50:55 PM EDT
We as a people are at the mercy of the media in many respects, video,print, etc. this is how the masses are moved. If we look at different prepardness sites, Beready.gov, FEMA.gov, you can sse that the pulic is being warmed up to the idea of war, and terror attacks. It helps in some ways to avoid shock and panic among the masses, and define goals for whatever the threat might be.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 1:04:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattja:
Also recommended "Threads" from 1984 if you can find it (could be difficult).

www.imdb.com/title/tt0090163/




somone posted a torrent of that here a while ago
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