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Posted: 8/4/2005 11:32:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 12:09:46 AM EDT by RockHard13F]
So today while sitting here reading ARFCOM I suddenly (and for no apparent reason) got an urge to go to Wally World and get a SOBE. While I pulled outta the walmart parking lot at about 2100 hours, I am not even 100m off the walmart lot when suddenly a car in front of me slams its breaks right as I am accelerating. I passed them to the left to avoid hitting them (this is a two way street) and curse them as bad drivers as I do so. Then, looking over my shoulder there is a Toyota Tundra stopped in front of the people I almost hit, and in front of it, a man laying in the street with people all around him. I stop my car in the middle of the road, hazard lights on, and jump out, get my bugout bag from my trunk (it has a medical kit similar to a combat lifesavers bag in it), and run over to him. He is laying with his leg twisted at an angle that shows it as clearly broken bar him being a helluva contortionist, and is twitching from head to toe. While I immediatly start telling people to back away from him, I carefully begin checking him for further injuries and any external bleeding. I told several people to call 911, but to my astonishment it is damn near 10 minutes before an emergency vehicle shows up (the Fire Dept was only three or four blocks away, olyarms is right, I do not think someone called 911 right away). He had severe pain in his stomach and bluing, burning sensation he said. Intially he was concious and responsive but as I tried to keep him talking and awake he finally lost responsivness. By this time I had his head/neck immobilized, a field dressing on his head wound, and his name and bloodtype. In the end looks like it was a broken leg, and what appeared to be a minor/moderate external head injury. I assume internal bleeding as well from his stomach and other clues, though he may have just bit his tongue bad, which would attribute to the blood coming from his mouth when he coughed once or twice. Finally emergency vehicles show up, and I wait out the rest on the sidewalk in case my assistance is needed further. (This was all done by the way with my FN 5.7 and an extra mag on my belt in plain view, I had taken my jacket off as I got in my car at walmart. People asked if I was a cop/medic. I told them I learned what I knew about medical from the Army, and that I was just carrying the weapon as a regular guy. Hope my actions reflected well on gun owners.) So, my question is, what would YOU have done in this situation? Would you be prepared to assist in an accident involving a pedestrian being hit by a Tundra at 40 mph (the drivers claimed speed, not smart especially since the speed limit there was 35)? Or do you need to brush up on your medical skills?

-Ben

EDITED for clarity on some asked questions. (And I did have latex/medical gloves in my med kit)
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:40:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 11:42:44 PM EDT by leakycow]
Law. Suit.

My brother is a doctor. He has malpractice insurance.

I, however, do not.

You did good, from what it sounds like, and hopefully people in Idaho don't go suing good samaritans at the drop of a penny, but I'd be afraid to touch the guy.

Oh yeah, I also don't have any formal medical training that would make me feel qualified enough to mess with a situation like that. I also fear HIV and Hepatitis and other random blood diseases.

Nice job on your part.

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:45:20 PM EDT
I think you did okay. I seem to remember something about a good samaratin law protecting you as long as you dont do something extraordinary that you're not trained for like a tracheotomy or something like that. I dont know if that's state to state or fed though.

Good job, many people would have kept going and not got involved. You tried to save somebody's life even if it went bad you should feel good knowing you did your best.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:48:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 11:48:49 PM EDT by RockHard13F]

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:02:22 AM EDT
Is the Toyota Tundra the vehicle you jad to swerve to avoid, when it began stopping suddenly?

First. you need to have enough room between you and the vehicle you are behind so you can stop safely if that vehicle decides to stop, without swerving.

Next, 40 mph? 40 mph, the struck person will most likely be dead. I believe that 25 mph and up is when car-ped crashes statistically become fatal crashes.

For 911 calls it generally takes a few moments for the dispatcter to get the info needed, like location, from the callers. I think you are also assumming that people actually called 911 when you told them to do so.

Next, the FD, guys could be cleaning up after a run, or the nearest station could've been out on a run at the time the call was received.

I wish I would be able to do as much as you did in a similar circumstance.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:08:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
Law. Suit.

My brother is a doctor. He has malpractice insurance.

I, however, do not.

You did good, from what it sounds like, and hopefully people in Idaho don't go suing good samaritans at the drop of a penny, but I'd be afraid to touch the guy.

Oh yeah, I also don't have any formal medical training that would make me feel qualified enough to mess with a situation like that. I also fear HIV and Hepatitis and other random blood diseases.

Nice job on your part.

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Actually. no-go on the lawsuit. Google "good samaritan law", almost every state has one. I am a volunteer firefighter and my department carries our MP insurance, and I am more open to being sued than an average passerby.

Every decent med kit has gloves.

I am a firm believer that anyone who believes in personal responsibility should take at least a first responder course, or even better EMT-B. You may help a dozen strangers and not think twice, but when the day comes that a loved one is the injured party you will be thankfull you took that little bit of time to train.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:10:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
So today while sitting here reading ARFCOM I suddenly (and for no apparent reason) got an urge to go to Wally World and get a SOBE. While I pulled outta the walmart parking lot at about 2100 hours, I am not even 100m off the walmart lot when suddenly a car in front of me slams its breaks right as I am accelerating. I passed them to the left to avoid hitting them (this is a two way street) and curse them as bad drivers as I do so. Then, looking over my shoulder there is a Toyota Tundra stopped in front of the people I almost hit, and in front of it, a man laying in the street with people all around him. I stop my car in the middle of the road, hazard lights on, and jump out, get my bugout bag from my trunk (it has a medical kit similar to a combat lifesavers bag in it), and run over to him. He is laying with his leg twisted at an angle that shows it as clearly broken bar him being a helluva contortionist, and is twitching from head to toe. While I immediatly start telling people to back away from him, I carefully begin checking him for further injuries and any external bleeding. I told several people to call 911, but to my astonishment it is damn near 10 minutes before an emergency vehicle shows up (the Fire Dept was only three or four blocks away, olyarms is right, I do not think someone called 911 right away). He had severe pain in his stomach and bluing, burning sensation he said. Intially he was concious and responsive but as I tried to keep him talking and awake he finally lost responsivness. By this time I had his head/neck immobilized, a field dressing on his head wound, and his name and bloodtype. In the end looks like it was a broken leg, and what appeared to be a minor/moderate external head injury. I assume internal bleeding as well from his stomach and other clues, though he may have just bit his tongue bad, which would attribute to the blood coming from his mouth when he coughed once or twice. Finally emergency vehicles show up, and I wait out the rest on the sidewalk in case my assistance is needed further. (This was all done by the way with my FN 5.7 and an extra mag on my belt in plain view, I had taken my jacket off as I got in my car at walmart. People asked if I was a cop/medic. I told them I learned what I knew about medical from the Army, and that I was just carrying the weapon as a regular guy. Hope my actions reflected well on gun owners.) So, my question is, what would YOU have done in this situation? Would you be prepared to assist in an accident involving a pedestrian being hit by a Tundra at 40 mph (the drivers claimed speed, not smart especially since the speed limit there was 35)? Or do you need to brush up on your medical skills?

-Ben

EDITED for clarity on some asked questions.



You did well. Is your local fire department/rscue squad all or partially volunteer? If so consider joining, you get free training and a chance to help a lot more people.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:10:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



Ah, so when a platoon of Russian Spetsnaz with Level 3 armor pop out from behind that Chevy in front of you, you'll be ready.

Just kiddin'... No insult to you or your FiveSeveN intended.

However, unless you do plan on having to defend yourself from someone with full body armor, I'd take a .40, 10mm or .45 over 5.7, unless the target is armored, stopping power is what matters most.

Then again being HSD [or is it DoHS?] you might just be planning on having to gun down that platoon of Russian Speznaz.

Save some for me .
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:11:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
I think you did okay. I seem to remember something about a good samaratin law protecting you as long as you dont do something extraordinary that you're not trained for like a tracheotomy or something like that. I dont know if that's state to state or fed though.



I've heard of this also, but never actually seen it in print anywhere.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:18:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 12:24:10 AM EDT by leakycow]

Originally Posted By Kooter:

Originally Posted By Mr45auto:
I think you did okay. I seem to remember something about a good samaratin law protecting you as long as you dont do something extraordinary that you're not trained for like a tracheotomy or something like that. I dont know if that's state to state or fed though.



I've heard of this also, but never actually seen it in print anywhere.



The key words are "as long as you dont do something that you're not trained for."

I'm not trained to do jack squat. I'd be concerned that I'd be doing more harm than good, "Good Samaritan" law in place or not.

Think of it from the pedestrian's point of view...you get whacked by a car, do you want a bunch of folks from Wal-Mart to gawk at you, or for some some of them to start monkeying around with your neck like they saw "that Mack Gyver fella do it on the tee vee." I firmly believe that people who are untrained shouldn't mess with accident victims unless they are in danger of being further harmed (car's on fire, what have you). Staunching bleeding is one thing (and there's still the blood-borne disease concern), but a guy in the state that you found smacked by a pick-up truck is beyond my meager capabilities.

Good for any of you who are medics, doctors, firefighters etc. who DO have some training. Just not me.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:19:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



That's cool then.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:21:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 12:22:54 AM EDT by leakycow]
err, messed up
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:25:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 12:32:27 AM EDT by RockHard13F]

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



Ah, so when a platoon of Russian Spetsnaz with Level 3 armor pop out from behind that Chevy in front of you, you'll be ready.

Just kiddin'... No insult to you or your FiveSeveN intended.

However, unless you do plan on having to defend yourself from someone with full body armor, I'd take a .40, 10mm or .45 over 5.7, unless the target is armored, stopping power is what matters most.

Then again being HSD [or is it DoHS?] you might just be planning on having to gun down that platoon of Russian Speznaz.

Save some for me .



Edit: If it takes more then 20 rounds of 5.7, I think it would be time to bust out something fired from the shoulder.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:37:08 AM EDT
I'm a medic and NR-EMT. But NY refuses to accept the NR-EMT so even if Ihis life was in serious danger I wouldn't go near him because I'd be sued and in debt for the rest of my life.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:37:36 AM EDT
Im gunna be awfully pissed off if I get injured and 10 people are standing around me on their cell phones watching me go in and out of conciousness and bleeding to death.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:38:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WIgunnut:
Im gunna be awfully pissed off if I get injured and 10 people are standing around me on their cell phones watching me go in and out of conciousness and bleeding to death.



That's the law. Better let you die than go to jail and go into serious debt.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:42:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WIgunnut:
Im gunna be awfully pissed off if I get injured and 10 people are standing around me on their cell phones watching me go in and out of conciousness and bleeding to death.




What do you want them to do instead?
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:49:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
For 911 calls it generally takes a few moments for the dispatcter to get the info needed, like location, from the callers. I think you are also assumming that people actually called 911 when you told them to do so.



Two things. One... is there a good samaritan law in your state that protects you from being sued when rendering first aid? Have you taken enough classes to avail yourself of that protection?

Two... when that sort of thing happens, I take one of the sheeple nearby and I ask "Hey, you... with the hat. What's your name?"

"T-tom."

"Well, hey, Tom, will you do me a favor and call 911 RIGHT NOW and tell them there is a motor vehicle accident with a pedestrian injury?"

Actually singling someone out and getting a commitment from them to call often makes it happen when otherwise people would just stand around and gawk.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:49:56 AM EDT
Instead of watching someone die, I think any decent person such as the original poster would try and keep the victim concious and get some information from them until paramedics get on scene.

So your saying that you would watch a person drowned and not even attempt to help them!
Too many people have become watchers.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:50:44 AM EDT
Also: On Idaho:

TITLE 5
PROCEEDINGS IN CIVIL ACTIONS IN
COURTS OF RECORD
CHAPTER 3
PARTIES TO ACTIONS

5-330. IMMUNITY OF PERSONS GIVING FIRST AID FROM DAMAGE CLAIM. That no action shall lie or be maintained for civil damages in any court of this state against any person or persons, or group of persons, who in good faith, being at, or stopping at the scene of an accident, offers and administers first aid or medical attention to any person or persons injured in such accident unless it can be shown that the person or persons offering or administering first aid, is guilty of gross negligence in the care or treatment of said injured person or persons or has treated them in a grossly negligent manner. The immunity described herein shall cease upon delivery of the injured person to either a generally recognized hospital for treatment of ill or injured persons, or upon assumption of treatment in the office or facility of any person undertaking to treat said injured person or persons, or upon delivery of said injured person or persons into custody of an ambulance attendant.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:00:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Austrian:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
For 911 calls it generally takes a few moments for the dispatcter to get the info needed, like location, from the callers. I think you are also assumming that people actually called 911 when you told them to do so.



Two things. One... is there a good samaritan law in your state that protects you from being sued when rendering first aid? Have you taken enough classes to avail yourself of that protection?

Two... when that sort of thing happens, I take one of the sheeple nearby and I ask "Hey, you... with the hat. What's your name?"

"T-tom."

"Well, hey, Tom, will you do me a favor and call 911 RIGHT NOW and tell them there is a motor vehicle accident with a pedestrian injury?"

Actually singling someone out and getting a commitment from them to call often makes it happen when otherwise people would just stand around and gawk.




Yes WI has a Good Samaritan Law.

Singling people out is a tactic taught in a whole bunch of responder classes.................... Then again it wouldn't surprise me if you get a "don't tell me what to do", or "I'm using my phone for something else" response nowadays. Not to mention the one that makes the call, is generally the one that is most unglued, not sure of where the are etc. etc.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:02:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:03:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 1:05:49 AM EDT by FishKepr]

Originally Posted By Austrian:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
For 911 calls it generally takes a few moments for the dispatcter to get the info needed, like location, from the callers. I think you are also assumming that people actually called 911 when you told them to do so.



Two things. One... is there a good samaritan law in your state that protects you from being sued when rendering first aid? Have you taken enough classes to avail yourself of that protection?

Two... when that sort of thing happens, I take one of the sheeple nearby and I ask "Hey, you... with the hat. What's your name?"

"T-tom."

"Well, hey, Tom, will you do me a favor and call 911 RIGHT NOW and tell them there is a motor vehicle accident with a pedestrian injury?"

Actually singling someone out and getting a commitment from them to call often makes it happen when otherwise people would just stand around and gawk.




BINGO! This is one of the first things a good instructor covers in emergency first aid, besides securing the scene.

ETA: PRIORITY ONE at an accident scene is prevent another accident!
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:20:05 AM EDT
Guts is the word I was looking for.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:33:46 AM EDT
OLY,
Usually when you see 40 is fatal, they mean potentially or more than likely. I have seen car accidents where the car looks like it went through a shredder , rolled a time or two and the people are walking around at the scene on my arrival. On the oher hand I've seen car with little damage have some people in them get severely injured. Luck definitely plays a part. As for this pedestrian vs. vehicle I'm sure luck played a part also , he might not have got hit square by the grill, or got hit and went up therefore not transferring all the energy of a 2+ ton truck to his body. Sounds like it just wasn't his day to die.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:37:49 AM EDT
I was honestly really surprised that he wasn't more hurt visibly. He landed a good 15-20 feet from the truck that hit him, I haven't ever helped in a medical situation that involved man vs vehicle, but I thought that his distance from the truck lent credibility to the drivers report of going around 40. I am racking out now, I'll check this thread tomorrow.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 1:56:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomF32:
OLY,
Usually when you see 40 is fatal, they mean potentially or more than likely. I have seen car accidents where the car looks like it went through a shredder , rolled a time or two and the people are walking around at the scene on my arrival. On the oher hand I've seen car with little damage have some people in them get severely injured. Luck definitely plays a part. As for this pedestrian vs. vehicle I'm sure luck played a part also , he might not have got hit square by the grill, or got hit and went up therefore not transferring all the energy of a 2+ ton truck to his body. Sounds like it just wasn't his day to die.



I was refering to car-ped crashes with 25mph being a critical speed. Not any other types of crashes.

Generally, at the higher speeds, you would expect to find 2 broken legs.

It's also the speed at impact, not the speed the vehicle was travelling at prior to impact, that assumes that there was braking prior to impact, that factors into the injuries.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:05:29 AM EDT
Go get you American red cross basic first aid and CPR certification. You will be protected from all lawsuits as long as you stay within the boundaries of what you were trained for.

On a side note, the good samaritan laws work the other way too. You can be arrested/fined if you DON'T stop and help.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 2:24:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:
So today while sitting here reading ARFCOM I suddenly (and for no apparent reason) got an urge to go to Wally World and get a SOBE. While I pulled outta the walmart parking lot at about 2100 hours, I am not even 100m off the walmart lot when suddenly a car in front of me slams its breaks right as I am accelerating. I passed them to the left to avoid hitting them (this is a two way street) and curse them as bad drivers as I do so. Then, looking over my shoulder there is a Toyota Tundra stopped in front of the people I almost hit, and in front of it, a man laying in the street with people all around him. I stop my car in the middle of the road, hazard lights on, and jump out, get my bugout bag from my trunk (it has a medical kit similar to a combat lifesavers bag in it), and run over to him. He is laying with his leg twisted at an angle that shows it as clearly broken bar him being a helluva contortionist, and is twitching from head to toe. While I immediatly start telling people to back away from him, I carefully begin checking him for further injuries and any external bleeding. I told several people to call 911, but to my astonishment it is damn near 10 minutes before an emergency vehicle shows up (the Fire Dept was only three or four blocks away, olyarms is right, I do not think someone called 911 right away). He had severe pain in his stomach and bluing, burning sensation he said. Intially he was concious and responsive but as I tried to keep him talking and awake he finally lost responsivness. By this time I had his head/neck immobilized, a field dressing on his head wound, and his name and bloodtype. In the end looks like it was a broken leg, and what appeared to be a minor/moderate external head injury. I assume internal bleeding as well from his stomach and other clues, though he may have just bit his tongue bad, which would attribute to the blood coming from his mouth when he coughed once or twice. Finally emergency vehicles show up, and I wait out the rest on the sidewalk in case my assistance is needed further. (This was all done by the way with my FN 5.7 and an extra mag on my belt in plain view, I had taken my jacket off as I got in my car at walmart. People asked if I was a cop/medic. I told them I learned what I knew about medical from the Army, and that I was just carrying the weapon as a regular guy. Hope my actions reflected well on gun owners.) So, my question is, what would YOU have done in this situation? Would you be prepared to assist in an accident involving a pedestrian being hit by a Tundra at 40 mph (the drivers claimed speed, not smart especially since the speed limit there was 35)? Or do you need to brush up on your medical skills?

-Ben

EDITED for clarity on some asked questions.



You did well. Is your local fire department/rscue squad all or partially volunteer? If so consider joining, you get free training and a chance to help a lot more people.



+1
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:08:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Go get you American red cross basic first aid and CPR certification. You will be protected from all lawsuits as long as you stay within the boundaries of what you were trained for.

On a side note, the good samaritan laws work the other way too. You can be arrested/fined if you DON'T stop and help.



Only a handfull of states have "duty to act" laws that apply to non-trained/certified persons.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:13:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
Law. Suit.

My brother is a doctor. He has malpractice insurance.

I, however, do not.

You did good, from what it sounds like, and hopefully people in Idaho don't go suing good samaritans at the drop of a penny, but I'd be afraid to touch the guy.

Oh yeah, I also don't have any formal medical training that would make me feel qualified enough to mess with a situation like that. I also fear HIV and Hepatitis and other random blood diseases.

Nice job on your part.

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Idaho has a good Samaritan law. You cannot be sued for assisting to the best of your ability.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:39:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 3:44:46 AM EDT by Merrell]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Go get you American red cross basic first aid and CPR certification. You will be protected from all lawsuits as long as you stay within the boundaries of what you were trained for.

On a side note, the good samaritan laws work the other way too. You can be arrested/fined if you DON'T stop and help.



Only a handfull of states have "duty to act" laws that apply to non-trained/certified persons.



Duty to act typically applies to those who are paid EMT's / Paramedic.

Just finished a FR course (highly recommended btw) and the way it should have been approached (at least in PA) is:

1) Scene safety - you don't want to add to the problem by becoming victim #2, depending on the highway, this affects where you would put your vehicle.

2) BSI - (body substance isolation) gloves, eye protection at a minimum, gown a good idea (especially if there is a good deal of blood) - too much stuff out there to not take precautions

3) Scene sizeup - how many victims (one) / mechanism of injury (obvious car-ped at high speed) - at that point I would have told a bystander to call 911 (even if they said 911 had been called) and told them to get a paramedic ambulance on the way and advise them to put a helicopter on standby (you usually cannot order a helicopter, but you can give them a heads up - can save a good 4-5 minutes getting them in the air if needed)

4) ABC / c-spine - airway is job #1 (without it everything else is moot) & c-spine is also key, if the patient is breathing, & has then you should have immobilized his head, and got a bystander to take over holding it (sliding their hands over yours so they don't move the spine and have seen how you do it) then check pulse & start CPR if needed (you should have a mask to do any rescue breathing (another side of BSI)

*note* as TJ mentioned, you should ask if you can help them (if they are alert), if they are not, then you can treat them under implied consent. Helps to ask their name & tell them help is on the way and you are going to take care of them.

5) Attend to major bleeding

6) Immobilize deformed extremities

7) Give the patient a little privacy (if a crowd is around and you have to start cutting of clothes, if they have lost control of their bodily functions etc.)

etc. etc,

Once you have started care, you have an obligation to continue until relieved by someone with equal or greater medical training (typically EMT or paramedic) Interestingly, there are times where someone with basic training trumps a physician or nurse (if they are not pre-hospital certified) but all the experienced help available would be useful.

Shock and other things get into a little more detail, in general, anyone like this would get oxygen quickly (in under a minute or two)

Ya did good stopping, many people wouldn't.

ETA: Disclaimer due to the legal community's need for new Lexuses - none of the above advise should be taken as medical guidance, this is the internet, not an approved first aid course, take one - they are good, ignore everything I said, I didn't write it, nobody saw me write it, you can't prove I wrote it, they made me write it, it's all Bush's fault, I never had sex with that woman, I am not a crook, AIEEEEEEEEEEEE

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:44:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



Ah, so when a platoon of Russian Spetsnaz with Level 3 armor pop out from behind that Chevy in front of you, you'll be ready.

Just kiddin'... No insult to you or your FiveSeveN intended.

However, unless you do plan on having to defend yourself from someone with full body armor, I'd take a .40, 10mm or .45 over 5.7, unless the target is armored, stopping power shot placement is what matters most.

Then again being HSD [or is it DoHS?] you might just be planning on having to gun down that platoon of Russian Speznaz.

Save some for me .



fixed it for ya
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:57:58 AM EDT
only have seen one accident... the lady on the phone cut in front of another lady who was going 40+. flipped the minivan and spun thephone layds car around a few times. stopped and checked on them...someone else was pulling the flipped van lady out (bad?) and phone girl ws still on the phone telling whoever she was talking to she was just in an accident had to convincer her to call 911..dumb beeaoch.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:02:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
...someone else was pulling the flipped van lady out (bad?)



Never move a petient with possible spinal injuries without stabilization unless there is immediate danger to their or another patients life by not doing so - they make extrication devices (KED) specifically for getting people out safely.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:09:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 4:10:50 AM EDT by topknot]

Originally Posted By Machinegunmaniac:
I'm a medic and NR-EMT. But NY refuses to accept the NR-EMT so even if Ihis life was in serious danger I wouldn't go near him because I'd be sued and in debt for the rest of my life.




THat is just NOT true. You can always provide basic aid. All you need carry is a pair of gloves and a pocket mask.

If you have the full jump bag full of IV supplies, C-collars, intubation kit, etc - then you can get into trouble if the party goes to shit.

But if you just provide basic ABCs (Maintain C-spine stabilization, Airway, monitor breathing and circulation) you are in NO danger of lawsuit.

I hope you read this Machinegunmaniac.

ps- I am an RN with an ER background and former EMT, and I had at one time a pretty well stocked jump bag, but have since taken most of it out because of concerns of being sued.

Gloves and pocket mask is all you should carry, but please help when you see someone in trouble.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:09:18 AM EDT
I would have picked his pockets first and then helped him out.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:10:18 AM EDT
he actually grabbed her head an twisted it around and showed her the other car and turned her head back....

<­BR>

...kidding...
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:15:25 AM EDT
damn

you did a hell of a lot more than i probably would have done as i dont have those kinds of emergency med knowledge/trauma care--i need to brush up on the med skills

i would have called 9-11 off the bat though

good job, hope everything comes out ok
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:19:49 AM EDT
You would be amazed at how many people we have to convince on 911 line to help someone. I have literally had to browbeat and shame persons into giving CPR by phone or rescue breathing. Won't do that anymore though. If they don't wanna do it, fuggem.

I think you did damn good.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:28:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:

However, unless you do plan on having to defend yourself from someone with full body armor, I'd take a .40, 10mm or .45 over 5.7, unless the target is armored, stopping power is what matters most.



You need to do some reading.

I suggest starting here
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 4:28:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By MurdockTheCrazy:

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



Ah, so when a platoon of Russian Spetsnaz with Level 3 armor pop out from behind that Chevy in front of you, you'll be ready.

Just kiddin'... No insult to you or your FiveSeveN intended.

However, unless you do plan on having to defend yourself from someone with full body armor, I'd take a .40, 10mm or .45 over 5.7, unless the target is armored, stopping power is what matters most.

Then again being HSD [or is it DoHS?] you might just be planning on having to gun down that platoon of Russian Speznaz.

Save some for me .



Edit: If it takes more then 20 rounds of 5.7, I think it would be time to bust out something fired from the shoulder.

-Ben



Meh... only a 20rd mag? How about 33rd of 9mm. It's not AP, but you have enought to at least make sure the target is well perforated.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 7:01:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RockHard13F:

Originally Posted By leakycow:

p.s. Not to be off-topic, but why the wimpy caliber for the carry piece?



Four words to make a beautiful phrase: Twenty Rounds, Armor Piercing (yes, I can get SS190, I work for the Homeland Security Department now days )

-Ben



Are you sure its cool? If you're a civilian working for the DHS and you have AP ammo, I'm thinking its still illlegal.

Anyway, good on you for actually helping out at the scene. I hate it when people stand around, and dont want to help, but they wanna be there. You actually showed the initiative.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 8:46:27 AM EDT
Well, my mother used to be an EMT at the fire dept here a few years back, she says it is volunteer, so I would be all warm and fuzzy inside if not for the fact that I am moving to Virginia in two days. Oh well. Some interesting responses here none-the-less.

And the guy who said 33 rounds of 9mm? You go ahead and do that, cause honestly after about 5 rounds (figure that should be enough to get to my car) your gonna have to deal with either my AR, or if your real lucky my Sharps. There is some REAL stopping power for you.

-Ben
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:48:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:49:29 AM EDT
Walmart parking lots and the whole area around them are bad ju-ju.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:57:51 AM EDT
Here is California's Good Sam law:

Taken from
www.swc.cc.ca.us/~kjacobs/goodsam.htm


The people of the State of California do exact as follows:

SECTION 1. Section 1714.2 is added to the Civil Code, to read:

1. In order to encourage citizens to participate in emergency medical training programs and to render emergency medical services to fellow citizens, no person who has completed a basic cardiopulmonary resuscitation course which complies with the standards adopted by the American Heart Association or the American Red Cross for cardiopulmonary resuscitation and emergency cardiac care, and whom, in good faith, renders emergency cardiopulmonary resuscitation at the scene of an emergency, shall be liable for any civil damages as a result of any acts or omissions by such person rendering the emergency care.
2. This section shall not be construed to grant immunity from civil damages to any person whose conduct in rendering such emergency care constitutes gross negligence.
3. In order to encourage local agencies and other organizations to train citizens in cardiopulmonary resuscitation techniques, no local agency, entity or state local governments, or other public or private organization which sponsors, authorizes, supports, finances, or supervises the training of citizens in cardiopulmonary resuscitation shall be liable for any civil damages alleged to be the result from such training programs.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:57:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Walmart parking lots and the whole area around them are bad ju-ju.

Precisely.

I commend RockHard13F for his quick thinking and willingness to participate as a good citizen.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:58:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Walmart parking lots and the whole area around them are bad ju-ju.

Precisely.

I commend RockHard13F for his quick thinking and willingness to participate as a good citizen.



Yep, most people wouldn't these days.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 11:59:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Niel:
Here is California's Good Sam law:

It basically says you are not liable if you have taken EMT or CPR classes and stay within the bounds of your training.

Taken from
www.swc.cc.ca.us/~kjacobs/goodsam.htm


The people of the State of California do exact as follows:

SECTION 1. Section 1714.2 is added to the Civil Code, to read:

1. In order to encourage citizens to participate in emergency medical training programs and to render emergency medical services to fellow citizens, no person who has completed a basic cardiopulmonary resuscitation course which complies with the standards adopted by the American Heart Association or the American Red Cross for cardiopulmonary resuscitation and emergency cardiac care, and whom, in good faith, renders emergency cardiopulmonary resuscitation at the scene of an emergency, shall be liable for any civil damages as a result of any acts or omissions by such person rendering the emergency care.
2. This section shall not be construed to grant immunity from civil damages to any person whose conduct in rendering such emergency care constitutes gross negligence.
3. In order to encourage local agencies and other organizations to train citizens in cardiopulmonary resuscitation techniques, no local agency, entity or state local governments, or other public or private organization which sponsors, authorizes, supports, finances, or supervises the training of citizens in cardiopulmonary resuscitation shall be liable for any civil damages alleged to be the result from such training programs.


Link Posted: 8/5/2005 12:03:25 PM EDT
Yes the Good Samaritin Laws protect me as a doctor in these kind of situations. But in my state it also forces me to act. If someone is dying and I can help him, I must or I will be held responsible to some degree.

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