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Posted: 3/17/2009 5:39:58 AM EST
Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa

Tuesday , March 17, 2009

AP
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ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE —
Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday that the distribution of condoms is not the answer in the fight against AIDS in Africa.

Benedict has never before spoken explicitly on condom use although he has stressed that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

Some priests and nuns working with victims of the AIDS pandemic ravaging Africa question the church's opposition to condoms.

The pope also said that he intends to make an appeal for "international solidarity" for Africa in the face of the global economic downturn.

He said that while the church does not propose specific economic solutions, it can give "spiritual and moral" suggestions.

Describing the current crisis as the consequence of "a deficit of ethics in economic structures," the pope said, "It is here that the church can make a contribution."

Benedict's seven-day pilgrimage will take him to Cameroon and Angola.

Africa is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic Church.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:42:08 AM EST
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:43:53 AM EST
Wow....That's pathetic.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:44:43 AM EST
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:44:51 AM EST
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:46:42 AM EST
So, he threw out some wild statement with no data/facts to back it up?? Oh, wait.....................
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:48:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z



How do you connect the dots of "using a condom" to "encouraging people to have MORE sex"?

Do you honestly think that in a society where there is NOTHING to do except have sex, that they will just stop? It's not like these people can just go to dinner and a movie? They go steal wood to build a fire to cook on.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:49:34 AM EST
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:50:03 AM EST
What a dumbass..

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:50:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:50:30 AM EST
The birth control issue is one of the few things I have a major disagreement with the Catholic Church on.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:50:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By aimpointed:
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom.


Yeah, good luck getting the Africans on board with that..

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:51:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By zoom:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z



Do you have statistics on the influence of free condom programs on sexual activities?

Do you honestly think that teaching "abstinence only" is an effective means to control STDs? That's like telling people to stay indoors to fight malaria...
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:53:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Originally Posted By zoom:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z



Do you have statistics on the influence of free condom programs on sexual activities?

Do you honestly think that teaching "abstinence only" is an effective means to control STDs? That's like telling people to stay indoors to fight malaria...


Studies have already shown "abstinence only" is the best way to have only pregnant teens..
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:55:12 AM EST
What else can the Pope say on the subject?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:56:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By aimpointed:
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom.

No doubt about it.

Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:57:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

While it is a sin to use birth control, ask for forgiveness and give thanks for not contracting HIV.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:58:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that.

I'm not Catholic or any fanboy for the Pope, but it's my opinion that you could blanket the entire continent of Africa a foot deep in condoms and it still wouldn't have much impact on the aids problem.
But then again trying to convince the people to abstain wouldn't either.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 5:59:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence.

Ain't faith just super?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:00:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By Texaspyro21:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

While it is a sin to use birth control, ask for forgiveness and give thanks for not contracting HIV.


Well yes that would be the answer....but the Pope can't really say that .

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:00:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Justin-Kase:
I'm not Catholic or any fanboy for the Pope, but it's my opinion that you could blanket the entire continent of Africa a foot deep in condoms and it still wouldn't have much impact on the aids problem.
But then again trying to convince the people to abstain wouldn't either.

Yeah, it's kind of a conundrum.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:02:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence.

Ain't faith just super?




Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:04:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence.

Ain't faith just super?


Preach it, brother
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:05:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/17/2009 6:06:12 AM EST by Tomislav]
As if condoms would cure this sort of incredible stupidity.

The availability of condoms, or the lack of food, or clean water, have nothing to do with why Africa is such a shithole.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:08:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Subnet:
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that.


Aw, go ahead. We're big boys and girls. Sticks and stones and all that. Of course, it's easy to have a thick skin when we know we're going to heaven and the rest of you are going to that other place. (In case you missed it, that was a joke - Catholics don't believe that.)

BTW, I'd like to hear the Pope's exact words. Notice the quote is given as: "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem." What does "it" refer to in the first sentence?

I think it's more likely the Pope actually said something like: The fundamental problem is the attitude that the sexual act is a form of recreation. You can't resolve that with the distribution of condoms. In fact, distribution of condoms actually increases the problem.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:08:26 AM EST
Is this former Hitler Youth Nazi Pope fucking crazy? Condoms causung AIDS? What's next?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:09:25 AM EST
I have stopped listening to what the Catholic Church has to say when they refuse to hold their own Priests and Bishops responsible for having sex with the children they were trusted with. One day I may find another church again but it won't be with the Catholic Church.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:10:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tomislav:
As if condoms would cure this sort of incredible stupidity.

The availability of condoms, or the lack of food, or clean water, have nothing to do with why Africa is such a shithole.



Well to paraphrase Subnet....Ain't culture just super?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:10:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
What else can the Pope say on the subject?

Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence.

Ain't faith just super?






Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:11:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:11:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:12:24 AM EST
*sigh*

Let me toss out something for the naysayers to consider.

What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem?


The Pope speaks from moral authority on moral issues. He's not trying to set secular policy and he's not trying to make a statement regarding medical or scientific understanding.
The "problem" that he speaks of is a sexually liberal society. AIDS and other STDs/STIs are only a symptom of that. The moral issue at hand is one of irresponsible sexuality, not of whether a rubber helps prevent infection.

If you're truly going to solve the "problem" then you need to take a moral behavioral approach.



It just seems like people pine for any attempt to get an "A-HA!" on the Church or the Pope. I don't understand why.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:12:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:14:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/17/2009 6:15:29 AM EST by Force-Recon]

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.


If you don't like what the Catholic churh teaches go somewere else. You sound like a member of Act Up Gay pride
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:14:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:15:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
*sigh*

Let me toss out something for the naysayers to consider.

What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem?


The Pope speaks from moral authority on moral issues. He's not trying to set secular policy and he's not trying to make a statement regarding medical or scientific understanding.
The "problem" that he speaks of is a sexually liberal society. AIDS and other STDs/STIs are only a symptom of that. The moral issue at hand is one of irresponsible sexuality, not of whether a rubber helps prevent infection.

If you're truly going to solve the "problem" then you need to take a moral behavioral approach.



It just seems like people pine for any attempt to get an "A-HA!" on the Church or the Pope. I don't understand why.


No...But I do find a guy with a screen name of TrojanMan defending the Pope on this issue.....interesting though.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:17:39 AM EST
I'm just gonna tag this while I get some popcorn going. Anyone need anything while I'm gone?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:18:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
No doubt about it.

Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa?


...and that would be the Pope's core point.
And teaching them Catholicism isn't going to change that.

And honestly, neither will the practice of handing out condoms amount to a hill of beans. So really, the issue is probably moot either way.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:19:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.


I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior.


Well to be fair, that not what he said.

He said this
"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."


While the people who are on the ground on location say this
Some priests and nuns working with victims of the AIDS pandemic ravaging Africa question the church's opposition to condoms.




Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:19:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Subnet:
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that.


This +1
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:20:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By aimpointed:
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom.


That works great, for the exceptionally small segment of some Western countries where that particular sexual moré is adhered to.

For cultures where adhering to that moré is unacceptable, do you have a solution aside from safer sex education and condom availability that does not involve impressing your personal beliefs on a foreign culture?
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:21:04 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.


I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior.


Encouraging people to use them has proved to be an effective means of controlling the spread of STDs. Convincing people that the exact opposite is true is more than counterproductive, it has the potential to hurt and kill people.

The two methods of education aren't mutually exclusive. Trying to reform their sexual behaviors could do some good. Encouraging condom use could do much more, however, to prevent the spread of disease.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:21:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Tolip:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.


I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior.


Add to that the many condoms that found their way to Africa only to be placed on broom handles in order to ward off pregnancy from the home.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:21:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:

What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem?


You're right... HIV is the true problem.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:22:02 AM EST
The day I go to the Pope for advice on disease transmission is the day I head down to the hospital for church services.

Or in other words, maybe elderly virgins should stick to commenting on matters they're informed on.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:25:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Originally Posted By Subnet:
No doubt about it.

Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa?


...and that would be the Pope's core point.
And teaching them Catholicism isn't going to change that.

And honestly, neither will the practice of handing out condoms amount to a hill of beans. So really, the issue is probably moot either way.


There are parts of certain African cultures where it is believed that condoms cause AIDS (and now they might have Papal support on that...) and the only way to cure HIV infection is to have sex with a virgin. So HIV positive men are raping children to try and cure themselves.

There's a LOT of problems that will need to be solved there.

Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:25:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:27:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:27:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
The day I go to the Pope for advice on disease transmission is the day I head down to the hospital for church services.

Or in other words, maybe elderly virgins should stick to commenting on matters they're informed on.


I don't think keeping The Big V is a requirement to be pope.
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:30:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/17/2009 6:31:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Why is there an AIDS epidemic in Africa? Because lots of people are doing stupid things with no thought for the consequences. How do you fix that? In reality there is no good answer. People have to change their thinking and behavior to put an end to the problem....but getting human beings to change their minds and behavior (even if it's in their best interest) is the hardest thing in the known universe.


To be more accurate, a few people are doing stupid things (wearing condoms around neck as amulet of protection, raping children to cure HIV), but most people are doing perfectly normal things that have been perfectly normal for thousands of years, but only recently became far more deadly.

The change to make those perfectly normal things unacceptable is a cultural one, and will take generations if it can be done at all. But to reduce the widescale disease and suffering, we need change that is effective in less than one generation.
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