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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:42:08 AM EDT
[#1]
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:43:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Wow....That's pathetic.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:44:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:44:51 AM EDT
[#4]
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:46:42 AM EDT
[#5]
So, he threw out some wild statement with no data/facts to back it up?? Oh, wait.....................
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:48:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z How do you connect the dots of "using a condom" to "encouraging people to have MORE sex"? Do you honestly think that in a society where there is NOTHING to do except have sex, that they will just stop? It's not like these people can just go to dinner and a movie? They go steal wood to build a fire to cook on. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:49:34 AM EDT
[#7]
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:50:03 AM EDT
[#8]
What a dumbass..
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:50:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that. Well said sir, well said. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:50:30 AM EDT
[#10]
The birth control issue is one of the few things I have a major disagreement with the Catholic Church on.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:50:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom. Yeah, good luck getting the Africans on board with that..
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:51:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z Do you have statistics on the influence of free condom programs on sexual activities? Do you honestly think that teaching "abstinence only" is an effective means to control STDs? That's like telling people to stay indoors to fight malaria... |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:53:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
He is right that encouraging people to have more sex isn't the solution to stop a sexually transmitted disease. The solution is to put a stop to how it is transmitted.z Do you have statistics on the influence of free condom programs on sexual activities? Do you honestly think that teaching "abstinence only" is an effective means to control STDs? That's like telling people to stay indoors to fight malaria... Studies have already shown "abstinence only" is the best way to have only pregnant teens.. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:55:12 AM EDT
[#14]
What else can the Pope say on the subject?
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:56:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom. No doubt about it. Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa? |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:57:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: What else can the Pope say on the subject? While it is a sin to use birth control, ask for forgiveness and give thanks for not contracting HIV. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:58:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that. I'm not Catholic or any fanboy for the Pope, but it's my opinion that you could blanket the entire continent of Africa a foot deep in condoms and it still wouldn't have much impact on the aids problem. But then again trying to convince the people to abstain wouldn't either. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 6:59:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: What else can the Pope say on the subject? Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence. Ain't faith just super? |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:00:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What else can the Pope say on the subject? While it is a sin to use birth control, ask for forgiveness and give thanks for not contracting HIV. Well yes that would be the answer....but the Pope can't really say that . |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:00:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Yeah, it's kind of a conundrum. I'm not Catholic or any fanboy for the Pope, but it's my opinion that you could blanket the entire continent of Africa a foot deep in condoms and it still wouldn't have much impact on the aids problem. But then again trying to convince the people to abstain wouldn't either. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:02:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What else can the Pope say on the subject? Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence. Ain't faith just super? 
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:04:32 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What else can the Pope say on the subject? Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence. Ain't faith just super? Preach it, brother |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:05:46 AM EDT
[#23]
As if condoms would cure this sort of incredible stupidity.
The availability of condoms, or the lack of food, or clean water, have nothing to do with why Africa is such a shithole. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:08:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that. Aw, go ahead. We're big boys and girls. Sticks and stones and all that. Of course, it's easy to have a thick skin when we know we're going to heaven and the rest of you are going to that other place.  (In case you missed it, that was a joke - Catholics don't believe that.)
BTW, I'd like to hear the Pope's exact words. Notice the quote is given as: "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem." What does "it" refer to in the first sentence? I think it's more likely the Pope actually said something like: The fundamental problem is the attitude that the sexual act is a form of recreation. You can't resolve that with the distribution of condoms. In fact, distribution of condoms actually increases the problem. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:08:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Is this former Hitler Youth Nazi Pope fucking crazy? Condoms causung AIDS? What's next?
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:09:25 AM EDT
[#26]
I have stopped listening to what the Catholic Church has to say when they refuse to hold their own Priests and Bishops responsible for having sex with the children they were trusted with. One day I may find another church again but it won't be with the Catholic Church.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:10:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
As if condoms would cure this sort of incredible stupidity. The availability of condoms, or the lack of food, or clean water, have nothing to do with why Africa is such a shithole. Well to paraphrase Subnet....Ain't culture just super? |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:10:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What else can the Pope say on the subject? Nothing, without contradicting the book he professes to believe. And therein lies the problem. It doesn't matter how irrational his position is, in the context of actually solving the problem. He can't suggest anything other than abstinence, because of his faith. The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence. Ain't faith just super?
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:11:19 AM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:11:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion. I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:12:24 AM EDT
[#31]
*sigh*
Let me toss out something for the naysayers to consider. What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem? The Pope speaks from moral authority on moral issues. He's not trying to set secular policy and he's not trying to make a statement regarding medical or scientific understanding. The "problem" that he speaks of is a sexually liberal society. AIDS and other STDs/STIs are only a symptom of that. The moral issue at hand is one of irresponsible sexuality, not of whether a rubber helps prevent infection. If you're truly going to solve the "problem" then you need to take a moral behavioral approach. It just seems like people pine for any attempt to get an "A-HA!" on the Church or the Pope. I don't understand why. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:12:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
No doubt about it. Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa? ...and that would be the Pope's core point. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:14:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion. If you don't like what the Catholic churh teaches go somewere else. You sound like a member of Act Up Gay pride 
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:14:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
The fact that his method is an abject failure in preventing the spread of STD's, is of no consequence. Ain't faith just super? Point of order: There are lots of condoms in Washington DC.... |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:15:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
*sigh* Let me toss out something for the naysayers to consider. What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem? The Pope speaks from moral authority on moral issues. He's not trying to set secular policy and he's not trying to make a statement regarding medical or scientific understanding. The "problem" that he speaks of is a sexually liberal society. AIDS and other STDs/STIs are only a symptom of that. The moral issue at hand is one of irresponsible sexuality, not of whether a rubber helps prevent infection. If you're truly going to solve the "problem" then you need to take a moral behavioral approach. It just seems like people pine for any attempt to get an "A-HA!" on the Church or the Pope. I don't understand why. No...But I do find a guy with a screen name of TrojanMan defending the Pope on this issue.....interesting though. 
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:17:39 AM EDT
[#36]
I'm just gonna tag this while I get some popcorn going. Anyone need anything while I'm gone?
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:18:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: And teaching them Catholicism isn't going to change that.Quoted: No doubt about it. Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa? ...and that would be the Pope's core point. And honestly, neither will the practice of handing out condoms amount to a hill of beans. So really, the issue is probably moot either way. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:19:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion. I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior. Well to be fair, that not what he said. He said this "You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."
While the people who are on the ground on location say this Some priests and nuns working with victims of the AIDS pandemic ravaging Africa question the church's opposition to condoms.
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:19:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
There are a lot of Catholics here, so I can't really say exactly what I'm thinking (above all, I try to be a nice guy). Suffice it to say that the Pope is mistaken, and I'll leave it at that. This +1 |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:20:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
People who dont have sex before marriage have AIDS less than people who have sex with a condom. That works great, for the exceptionally small segment of some Western countries where that particular sexual moré is adhered to. For cultures where adhering to that moré is unacceptable, do you have a solution aside from safer sex education and condom availability that does not involve impressing your personal beliefs on a foreign culture? |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:21:04 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion. I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior. Encouraging people to use them has proved to be an effective means of controlling the spread of STDs. Convincing people that the exact opposite is true is more than counterproductive, it has the potential to hurt and kill people. The two methods of education aren't mutually exclusive. Trying to reform their sexual behaviors could do some good. Encouraging condom use could do much more, however, to prevent the spread of disease. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:21:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Irresponsible prick. I'd like to see how he justifies that conclusion. I believe the Pontiff's point is that little rubber things are not a solution to what is fundamentally an issue with irresponsible behavior, and that holding them as a panacea might actually be counter-productive to the purpose of encouraging responsible behavior. Add to that the many condoms that found their way to Africa only to be placed on broom handles in order to ward off pregnancy from the home. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:21:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
What if AIDS is only a symptom and not the true problem? You're right... HIV is the true problem. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:22:02 AM EDT
[#44]
The day I go to the Pope for advice on disease transmission is the day I head down to the hospital for church services.
Or in other words, maybe elderly virgins should stick to commenting on matters they're informed on. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:25:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
And teaching them Catholicism isn't going to change that.
Quoted:
No doubt about it. Now riddle me this - how many people actually abstain from sex before marriage, particularly in Africa? ...and that would be the Pope's core point. And honestly, neither will the practice of handing out condoms amount to a hill of beans. So really, the issue is probably moot either way. There are parts of certain African cultures where it is believed that condoms cause AIDS (and now they might have Papal support on that...) and the only way to cure HIV infection is to have sex with a virgin. So HIV positive men are raping children to try and cure themselves. There's a LOT of problems that will need to be solved there. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:25:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
And teaching them Catholicism isn't going to change that. If that were true then it would be pointless to attempt to discipline children. We're talking about human beings, here...human beings can learn. They can comprehend that there are long term consequences for the decisions that they make. Whatever the method of delivery, a system that encourages people to look to their long term interests, encourages responsible behavior...that's the only real way to make significant improvement in people's lives. One of the damnable things about our current situation is that we seem to have abandoned that understanding in our own social structure. And honestly, neither will the practice of handing out condoms amount to a hill of beans. So really, the issue is probably moot either way. I wouldn't go so far as "moot", but it's an illustration of the core problem. Why is there an AIDS epidemic in Africa? Because lots of people are doing stupid things with no thought for the consequences. How do you fix that? In reality there is no good answer. People have to change their thinking and behavior to put an end to the problem....but getting human beings to change their minds and behavior (even if it's in their best interest) is the hardest thing in the known universe. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:27:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
There are parts of certain African cultures where it is believed that condoms cause AIDS (and now they might have Papal support on that...) Nobody in the Catholic church is saying that condoms cause AIDS. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:27:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
The day I go to the Pope for advice on disease transmission is the day I head down to the hospital for church services. Or in other words, maybe elderly virgins should stick to commenting on matters they're informed on. I don't think keeping The Big V is a requirement to be pope. |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:30:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Encouraging people to use them has proved to be an effective means of controlling the spread of STDs. Convincing people that the exact opposite is true is more than counterproductive, it has the potential to hurt and kill people. The Pope isn't blaming AIDS on condoms. He's contending that programs that do not try to address the core problem underlying the epidemic in the hopes that condoms will help aren't going to produce the proper results. The problem with condoms is that responsible people use them. The problem with STD's is that irresponsible people get them. Trying to reform their sexual behaviors could do some good. Encouraging condom use could do much more, however, to prevent the spread of disease. Trying to get them to use condoms is in and of itself trying to reform their sexual behaviors. It's trying to get them to think "Gee whiz...this could kill me. Maybe I should be careful." |
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Posted: 3/17/2009 7:31:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Why is there an AIDS epidemic in Africa? Because lots of people are doing stupid things with no thought for the consequences. How do you fix that? In reality there is no good answer. People have to change their thinking and behavior to put an end to the problem....but getting human beings to change their minds and behavior (even if it's in their best interest) is the hardest thing in the known universe. To be more accurate, a few people are doing stupid things (wearing condoms around neck as amulet of protection, raping children to cure HIV), but most people are doing perfectly normal things that have been perfectly normal for thousands of years, but only recently became far more deadly. The change to make those perfectly normal things unacceptable is a cultural one, and will take generations if it can be done at all. But to reduce the widescale disease and suffering, we need change that is effective in less than one generation. |
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