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Posted: 4/16/2008 11:03:57 AM EST
Full text:
wcbstv.com/papalvisit/pope.benedict.speech.2.701076.html

Relevant passages:

From the dawn of the Republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the Creator. The framers of this nation's founding documents drew upon this conviction when they proclaimed the "self-evident truth" that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God. The course of American history demonstrates the difficulties, the struggles, and the great intellectual and moral resolve which were demanded to shape a society which faithfully embodied these noble principles. In that process, which forged the soul of the nation, religious beliefs were a constant inspiration and driving force, as for example in the struggle against slavery and in the civil rights movement. In our time too, particularly in moments of crisis, Americans continue to find their strength in a commitment to this patrimony of shared ideals and aspirations.



Freedom is not only a gift, but also a summons to personal responsibility. Americans know this from experience – almost every town in this country has its monuments honoring those who sacrificed their lives in defense of freedom, both at home and abroad. The preservation of freedom calls for the cultivation of virtue, self-discipline, sacrifice for the common good and a sense of responsibility towards the less fortunate. It also demands the courage to engage in civic life and to bring one's deepest beliefs and values to reasoned public debate. In a word, freedom is ever new. It is a challenge held out to each generation, and it must constantly be won over for the cause of good (cf. Spe Salvi, 24). Few have understood this as clearly as the late Pope John Paul II. In reflecting on the spiritual victory of freedom over totalitarianism in his native Poland and in eastern Europe, he reminded us that history shows, time and again, that "in a world without truth, freedom loses its foundation", and a democracy without values can lose its very soul (cf. Centesimus Annus, 46). Those prophetic words in some sense echo the conviction of President Washington, expressed in his Farewell Address, that religion and morality represent "indispensable supports" of political prosperity.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 11:08:33 AM EST
They'll cart him off to Gitmo real quick if he keeps talking like that.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 11:11:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:00:21 PM EST
Cool post. I always like reading Cardinal Ratzinger.

Here's a good read from, of all places, Asia Times Online.

The mustard seed in global strategy



A self-described revolution in world affairs has begun in the heart of one man. He is the Italian journalist and author Magdi Cristiano Allam, whom Pope Benedict XVI baptized during the Easter Vigil at St Peter's. Allam's renunciation of Islam as a religion of violence and his embrace of Christianity denotes the point at which the so-called global "war on terror" becomes a divergence of two irreconcilable modes of life: the Western way of faith supported by reason, against the Muslim world of fatalism and submission.

Magdi Allam tells us that he has found the true God and forsaken an Islam that he regards as inherently violent. Magdi Allam has a powerful voice as deputy editor of Italy's newspaper of record, Corriere della Sera, and a bestselling author. For years he was the exemplar of "moderate Islam" in Europe, and now he has decided that Islam cannot be "moderate".

Since September 2001, the would-be wizards of Western strategy have tried to conjure an "Islamic reformation", or a "moderate Islam", or "Islamic democracy". None of this matters now, for as Magdi Allam tells us, the matter on the agenda is not to persuade Muslims to act like liberal Westerners, but instead to convince them to cease to be Muslims. The use of the world "revolution" is Magdi Allam's:

His Holiness has sent an explicit and revolutionary message to a Church that until now has been too prudent in the conversion of Muslims, abstaining from proselytizing in majority Muslim countries and keeping quiet about the reality of converts in Christian countries. Out of fear. The fear of not being able to protect converts in the face of their being condemned to death for apostasy and fear of reprisals against Christians living in Islamic countries. Well, today Benedict XVI, with his witness, tells us that we must overcome fear and not be afraid to affirm the truth of Jesus even with Muslims.

There is no deference to mutual respect and multi-culturalism. Magdi Allam forsook Islam because he considers it to be "inherently evil". As he wrote to his editor at the Corriere della Sera:
My conversion to Catholicism is the touching down of a gradual and profound interior meditation from which I could not pull myself away, given that for five years I have been confined to a life under guard, with permanent surveillance at home and a police escort for my every movement, because of death threats and death sentences from Islamic extremists and terrorists, both those in and outside of Italy ...

I asked myself how it was possible that those who, like me, sincerely and boldly called for a "moderate Islam", assuming the responsibility of exposing themselves in the first person in denouncing Islamic extremism and terrorism, ended up being sentenced to death in the name of Islam on the basis of the Koran. I was forced to see that, beyond the contingency of the phenomenon of Islamic extremism and terrorism that has appeared on a global level, the root of evil is inherent in an Islam that is physiologically violent and historically conflictive [emphasis added].

Far more important than denouncing the evils of Islam, though, is Magdi Allam's embrace of what he calls the God of faith and reason:

The miracle of the Resurrection of Christ has reverberated through my soul, liberating it from the darkness of a tendency where hate and intolerance in before the "other", condemning it uncritically as an "enemy", and ascending to love and respect for one's "neighbor", who is always and in any case a person; thus my mind has been released from the obscurantism of an ideology which legitimates lying and dissimulation, the violent death that leads to homicide and suicide, blind submission and tyranny - permitting me to adhere to the authentic religion of Truth, of Life, and freedom. Upon my first Easter as a Christian I have not only discovered Jesus, but I have discovered for the first time the true and only God, which is the God of Faith and Reason ...
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:04:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Cool post. I always like reading Cardinal Ratzinger.

Here's a good read from, of all places, Asia Times Online.

The mustard seed in global strategy



A self-described revolution in world affairs has begun in the heart of one man. He is the Italian journalist and author Magdi Cristiano Allam, whom Pope Benedict XVI baptized during the Easter Vigil at St Peter's. Allam's renunciation of Islam as a religion of violence and his embrace of Christianity denotes the point at which the so-called global "war on terror" becomes a divergence of two irreconcilable modes of life: the Western way of faith supported by reason, against the Muslim world of fatalism and submission.

Magdi Allam tells us that he has found the true God and forsaken an Islam that he regards as inherently violent. Magdi Allam has a powerful voice as deputy editor of Italy's newspaper of record, Corriere della Sera, and a bestselling author. For years he was the exemplar of "moderate Islam" in Europe, and now he has decided that Islam cannot be "moderate".

Since September 2001, the would-be wizards of Western strategy have tried to conjure an "Islamic reformation", or a "moderate Islam", or "Islamic democracy". None of this matters now, for as Magdi Allam tells us, the matter on the agenda is not to persuade Muslims to act like liberal Westerners, but instead to convince them to cease to be Muslims. The use of the world "revolution" is Magdi Allam's:

His Holiness has sent an explicit and revolutionary message to a Church that until now has been too prudent in the conversion of Muslims, abstaining from proselytizing in majority Muslim countries and keeping quiet about the reality of converts in Christian countries. Out of fear. The fear of not being able to protect converts in the face of their being condemned to death for apostasy and fear of reprisals against Christians living in Islamic countries. Well, today Benedict XVI, with his witness, tells us that we must overcome fear and not be afraid to affirm the truth of Jesus even with Muslims.

There is no deference to mutual respect and multi-culturalism. Magdi Allam forsook Islam because he considers it to be "inherently evil". As he wrote to his editor at the Corriere della Sera:
My conversion to Catholicism is the touching down of a gradual and profound interior meditation from which I could not pull myself away, given that for five years I have been confined to a life under guard, with permanent surveillance at home and a police escort for my every movement, because of death threats and death sentences from Islamic extremists and terrorists, both those in and outside of Italy ...

I asked myself how it was possible that those who, like me, sincerely and boldly called for a "moderate Islam", assuming the responsibility of exposing themselves in the first person in denouncing Islamic extremism and terrorism, ended up being sentenced to death in the name of Islam on the basis of the Koran. I was forced to see that, beyond the contingency of the phenomenon of Islamic extremism and terrorism that has appeared on a global level, the root of evil is inherent in an Islam that is physiologically violent and historically conflictive [emphasis added].

Far more important than denouncing the evils of Islam, though, is Magdi Allam's embrace of what he calls the God of faith and reason:

The miracle of the Resurrection of Christ has reverberated through my soul, liberating it from the darkness of a tendency where hate and intolerance in before the "other", condemning it uncritically as an "enemy", and ascending to love and respect for one's "neighbor", who is always and in any case a person; thus my mind has been released from the obscurantism of an ideology which legitimates lying and dissimulation, the violent death that leads to homicide and suicide, blind submission and tyranny - permitting me to adhere to the authentic religion of Truth, of Life, and freedom. Upon my first Easter as a Christian I have not only discovered Jesus, but I have discovered for the first time the true and only God, which is the God of Faith and Reason ...


Man, that is spot on.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:13:03 PM EST
This is great. The Crusader Pope hits hard.
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:13:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:17:15 PM EST
Go get 'em Pope
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:37:23 PM EST
I have been proud to be Catholic today
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:42:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!
Link Posted: 4/16/2008 5:50:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By XD-GEM:
From the dawn of the Republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the Creator. The framers of this nation's founding documents drew upon this conviction when they proclaimed the "self-evident truth" that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God.

LIES!

All LIES!!!

The Founding Fathers never wanted Religion to influence the direction of our Gov't.

"Wall of Separation" and all that!





Link Posted: 4/17/2008 10:49:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

LIES!

All LIES!!!

The Founding Fathers never wanted Religion to influence the direction of our Gov't.

"Wall of Separation" and all that!







I'm hoping the smilie means you're kidding.

If not, you should try to find a copy of the letter that Thomas Jefferson (originator of the phrase "wall of separation between Church and State") wrote to the Ursuline nuns in New Orleans immediately following the Louisiana Purchase. The nuns had written to Jefferson, worried about their ability to freely practice their Catholic faith in the new, mostly Protestant country. Jefferson's answer echoed the "wall of separation" he had used earlier, but clearly defined it to mean that the govenrment must never interfere in any religion, not the other way around. Elsewhere he (and other founding fathers) held that religion in a person's life should inform all he or she does, hence it should influence their political judgement by making them morally upright and of sound values which would benefit the community.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:21:06 AM EST
Alot of people seem to confuse separation of Chuch and State (the traditional US model) with State enforced Secularism (the post Revolutionary French model). The Pope has a deep respect for the American model of tolerance without establishment.

From Time magazine.


A survey of the 80-year-old Pontiff's writings over the decades and testimonies from those who know him suggests that Benedict has a soft spot for Americans and finds considerable value in his U.S. church, the third largest Catholic congregation in the world. Most intriguing, he entertains a recurring vision of an America we sometimes lose sight of: an optimistic and diverse but essentially pious society in which faiths and a faith-based conversation on social issues are kept vital by the Founding Fathers' decision to separate church and state. It's not a stretch to say the Pope sees in the U.S.--or in some kind of idealized version of it--a civic model and even an inspiration to his native Europe, whose Muslim immigrants raise the question of religious and political coexistence in the starkest terms. Says David Gibson, author of The Rule of Benedict: Pope Benedict XVI and His Battle with the Modern World: "As he tours the U.S., it's important to underscore that his philosophy has more consonances with our culture than meet the eye--some very profound."

The Pope's admiration for the U.S. has deep roots. Unlike John Paul II, who was intellectually and theologically fully formed when he met his first Americans, Ratzinger first observed them when he was 18. As a defeated German soldier, he spent three months in a pow camp but was then allowed to return home and witness one of the great modern acts of charity, the rebuilding of Germany by an occupying force that could just as easily have exacted revenge. Cardinal William Levada, the Californian whom Benedict tapped as his successor at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), says, "He's of a generation that remembers, gratefully."

Ratzinger's next American exposure came during the momentous Second Vatican Council in Rome, from 1962 to '65. Then in his early 30s, Ratzinger was a theological wunderkind who made his name behind the scenes. The U.S. delegation, meanwhile, was embroiled in a contentious debate over religious freedom. Conservatives opposed it: states must sponsor faith, and the faith should be Roman Catholic. The Americans argued that religious liberty was morally imperative and--from experience--that in a multireligious state, Catholicism could best thrive when the government could not play favorites. The council sided with them, and Ratzinger, anticipating a world composed of jostling religious pluralities, heartily approved. In a 1966 analysis, he wrote, "In a critical hour, Council leadership passed from Europe to the young Churches of America and [their allies]," who "were really opening up the way to the future."

The most rapt expression of the Pope's enthusiasm for the U.S. came in a high-minded 2004 dialogue with the president of the Italian Senate, Marcello Pera, published as the book Without Roots. It bemoans the European Union's refusal to acknowledge Christianity in a draft constitution, and Pera wonders about bringing back some kind of multidenominational "Christian civil religion." In response, Ratzinger cites Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America and makes the case that America's Founding Fathers were pious men of different denominations who wrote the First Amendment prohibiting state establishment (that is, sponsorship) of religion precisely because sponsorship would stifle all non-established creeds--which they hoped would achieve full and varied flower.

Of course, no such bloom would occur if the American soil were not already faith-saturated. But Ratzinger believes in America's "obvious spiritual foundation," its natural, Puritan-instilled DNA. He is well aware that this is eroding; he thinks we watch too much TV and fears that American secularization is proceeding at an "accelerated pace." But he insists that there is a "much clearer and implicit sense" in the U.S. than in Europe of a morality "bequeathed by Christianity." He has also given earnest thought to the mechanics of this civil religion, specifying that to affect the moral consensus, it is not enough for Catholics to rub shoulders with other Christians; they must translate their concerns from doctrinal language into a "public theology" accessible to all.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:28:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By XD-GEM:
From the dawn of the Republic, America's quest for freedom has been guided by the conviction that the principles governing political and social life are intimately linked to a moral order based on the dominion of God the Creator. The framers of this nation's founding documents drew upon this conviction when they proclaimed the "self-evident truth" that all men are created equal and endowed with inalienable rights grounded in the laws of nature and of nature's God.

LIES!

All LIES!!!

The Founding Fathers never wanted Religion to influence the direction of our Gov't.

"Wall of Separation" and all that!







They wanted to keep state from running church(church of england) or church running state(Holy Roman Empire)

They were not attempting to prevent religious people from being in government. They also had no problem with some religious ideals being a part of government.

Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:28:36 AM EST
god, i love this country
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:33:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/ap_on_re_us/pope_us

Pope: America needs to be a land of hope for all

By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer 35 minutes ago

Pope Benedict XVI presided over a Mass celebrated in 10 languages Thursday, calling the United States a land of opportunity and hope but decrying that the nation's promise has been left unfulfilled for some.

At the first public Mass of his U.S. pilgrimage, Benedict mixed praise for the American experience with an effort to touch consciences, something he has been doing since the start of his trip on Tuesday.

More than 45,000 people filled Nationals Park on a clear spring day, as the pope, wearing scarlet vestments, led the service from an altar erected in centerfield of the recently inaugurated baseball stadium. Rows of red-robed church leaders joined him. The enthusiastic crowd burst into cheers when Benedict entered the stadium in his popemobile.

His homily was more somber. Benedict examined American society, saying he detected anger and alienation, increasing violence and a "growing forgetfulness of God."

"Americans have always been a people of hope," he said. "Your ancestors came to this country with the experience of finding new freedom and opportunity.

"To be sure, this promise was not experienced by all the inhabitants of this land; one thinks of the injustices endured by the native American peoples and by those brought here forcibly from Africa as slaves."


It was not the first time on the trip that the pontiff has delicately critiqued his host nation.

Speaking to his American bishops Wednesday, he said the U.S. must be welcoming to immigrants, helping them to flourish in their new homes.

Following a White House visit, a joint statement from the U.S. and the Vatican hinted that Benedict raised concerns with President Bush about punitive immigration laws. It said the leaders discussed "the need for a coordinated policy regarding immigration, especially the humane treatment of immigrants and the well-being of their families."

The statement also said Bush and Benedict "touched on the need to confront terrorism with appropriate means that respect the human person and his or her rights" — an apparent reflection of the Vatican's strong condemnation of the mistreatment of prisoners
.

During Thursday's Mass, Benedict worried about divisions among Catholics, and what he called the "troubling realization" that many are not following church teaching.

Benedict also turned for a third day to the clergy sex abuse scandal that has plagued the American church since 2002, saying "no words of mine could describe the pain and harm inflicted by such abuse."

He called on parishioners to help with healing, reconciliation and assistance to the victims, but he also urged his flock to "love your priests, and to affirm them in the excellent work that they do."

At 5:45 a.m., more than four hours before the Mass, it was standing-room only on subways. Vendors hawked Vatican flags and souvenir buttons, but there were few takers as people hurried toward the stadium.

For others, there was nothing more important than getting in, and many people without tickets stood outside the subway station with signs pleading for extras.

Patty Trail, 54, pastoral associate at a church in Virginia Beach, Va., drove overnight to bring two priests to the Mass. She didn't have a ticket but said she was happy to at least be in the vicinity of the pope.

"Just to be out here, just to be in the presence," she said. "D.C. feels different."

At the end of the two-hour Mass, Benedict blessed the cheering crowd, some of them waving Vatican flags. Worried-looking papal bodyguards stood close and cleared a way for him as he walked out, while many worshippers tried to shake his hand or touch his robes.

A number of lawmakers who support abortion rights attended the Mass, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sen. John Kerry, the former Democratic presidential candidate. During the 2004 campaign, several bishops questioned whether Kerry should receive Communion because of his stand on abortion. The Massachusetts Democrat who took Communion from a priest far from the papal altar.

For some, the experience of Mass with Benedict was overwhelming. It made Barbara Loh of Williamsburg, Va., tear up.

"I've been Catholic all my life," she said. "My dream has always been to see the pope."
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:46:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!


Were you not proud to be catholic yesterday?
What about the visit of a man makes you so proud to be catholic?
What makes the mass he delivered so great that it caused such a great reaction?


Do not take this as an insult to you or your church, it is only a simple question.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:54:12 AM EST
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:56:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!


Were you not proud to be catholic yesterday?
What about the visit of a man makes you so proud to be catholic?
What makes the mass he delivered so great that it caused such a great reaction?


Do not take this as an insult to you or your church, it is only a simple question.
I figured I would get some questions like this asked. Yes I am proud to be a Catholic everyday. I was especially proud to see the leader of my religion being welcomed so warmly in my country yesterday, It made me especially proud to be a Catholic.

Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:56:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?


Yes.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 11:58:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


1. he didnt touch the boys.
2. his church has been doing more to prevent and punish child abuse.
3. the percentage of priests touching little kids is far below the level of kiddie touching in the general population.

Fuck morons and their misunderstanding of the Popes ideals.


P.S. Im presbyterian, i only come to the aid of the Roman Catholic Church when it is being misrepresented by those who do not know what they are talking about.



Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:01:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!


Were you not proud to be catholic yesterday?
What about the visit of a man makes you so proud to be catholic?
What makes the mass he delivered so great that it caused such a great reaction?


Do not take this as an insult to you or your church, it is only a simple question.
I figured I would get some questions like this asked. Yes I am proud to be a Catholic everyday. I was especially proud to see the leader of my religion being welcomed so warmly in my country yesterday, It made me especially proud to be a Catholic.



like i said, it was not meant as an insult.
I only asked to understand what about his visit made your pride and faith grow. Was it the mass he delivered that moves you, or what? In your case, it was the welcome. it was a simple question, with no insult implied. calm down.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:13:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!


Were you not proud to be catholic yesterday?
What about the visit of a man makes you so proud to be catholic?
What makes the mass he delivered so great that it caused such a great reaction?


Do not take this as an insult to you or your church, it is only a simple question.
I figured I would get some questions like this asked. Yes I am proud to be a Catholic everyday. I was especially proud to see the leader of my religion being welcomed so warmly in my country yesterday, It made me especially proud to be a Catholic.



like i said, it was not meant as an insult.
I only asked to understand what about his visit made your pride and faith grow. Was it the mass he delivered that moves you, or what? In your case, it was the welcome. it was a simple question, with no insult implied. calm down.
Sorry I had seen the other post saying Fuck the Pope and I got on the defensive . Thanks for setting things straight with that guy also.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:16:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


I knew resurrecting this thread would be a bad idea.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:17:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?


Yes.


Well his words then give alot of support to the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and Barrack Obama's landmark speech on race relations.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:19:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


1. he didnt touch the boys.
2. his church has been doing more to prevent and punish child abuse.
3. the percentage of priests touching little kids is far below the level of kiddie touching in the general population.

Fuck morons and their misunderstanding of the Popes ideals.


P.S. Im presbyterian, i only come to the aid of the Roman Catholic Church when it is being misrepresented by those who do not know what they are talking about.





Thanks for your support on this, bdub. you are quite correct that this man has indeed placed the screws to those who covered up these crimes. He also called it "filth" as I recall. You are also correct that cases of pedophilia are more prominent outside of the Church (if one consideres only those in public education, THOSE offenders dwarf the priests who committed such acts).

As to your question about Catholic pride, I suspect that it is simply the feeling one gets when the head of one's religion pays a pastoral visit that is so well recieved. I recall seeing the same sort of pride from the Greek Orthodox community in my area several years back when, Demetrius, the head of their church came to town. It is a concrete event that places the abstractions of one's religion in a more tangible setting. Does that make sense?
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:24:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?


Yes.


Well his words then give alot of support to the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and Barrack Obama's landmark speech on race relations.


FAIL.

Cardinal Ratzinger is probably the biggest opponent of Liberation Theology in the world over the past 40 years, so he would in no way support anything Jeremiah Wright had to say.

Black Liberation Theology is an out-and-out heresey.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:26:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


1. he didnt touch the boys.
2. his church has been doing more to prevent and punish child abuse.
3. the percentage of priests touching little kids is far below the level of kiddie touching in the general population.

Fuck morons and their misunderstanding of the Popes ideals.


P.S. Im presbyterian, i only come to the aid of the Roman Catholic Church when it is being misrepresented by those who do not know what they are talking about.





+1000

The Catholic Church is definitely worthy of our support.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 12:37:32 PM EST
Very courageous of Mr. Allam. I salute you sir.


Link Posted: 4/17/2008 1:16:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?


Yes.


Well his words then give alot of support to the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and Barrack Obama's landmark speech on race relations.


Read this. The current pope wrote this in 1984.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 1:34:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:

Originally Posted By reddog51:

Originally Posted By Matt_The_Hokie:

Originally Posted By emcs31089:
I have been proud to be Catholic today


+ a BILLION!



Still proud after this?


Yes.


Well his words then give alot of support to the good Reverend Jeremiah Wright, and Barrack Obama's landmark speech on race relations.


Read this. The current pope wrote this in 1984.


Thanks for the link. Here's the most relevant passage.


2. The zeal and the compassion which should dwell in the hearts of all pastors nevertheless run the risk of being led astray and diverted to works which are just as damaging to man and his dignity as is the poverty which is being fought, if one is not sufficiently attentive to certain temptations.

3. The feeling of anguish at the urgency of the problems cannot make us lose sight of what is essential nor forget the reply of Jesus to the Tempter: "It is not on bread alone that man lives, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4; cf. Deuteronomy 8:3). Faced with the urgency of sharing bread, some are tempted to put evangelization into parentheses, as it were, and postpone it until tomorrow: first the bread, then the Word of the Lord. It is a fatal error to separate these two and even worse to oppose the one to the other. In fact, the Christian perspective naturally shows they have a great deal to do with one another. [19]

4. To some it even seems that the necessary struggle for human justice and freedom in the economic and political sense constitutes the whole essence of salvation. For them, the Gospel is reduced to a purely earthly gospel.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 1:37:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


1. he didnt touch the boys.
2. his church has been doing more to prevent and punish child abuse.
3. the percentage of priests touching little kids is far below the level of kiddie touching in the general population.

Fuck morons and their misunderstanding of the Popes ideals.


P.S. Im presbyterian, i only come to the aid of the Roman Catholic Church when it is being misrepresented by those who do not know what they are talking about.






Am Darn proud of the Pope and his Statements, and NO I ain't even a Catholic.
I also have Proud Injun blood running through my veins.

The pope called for humane treatment of people.
That's what he stands for.
That is is voice.

Nothing controversial.

His expression of "God Bless the USA" was his strongest statement, but some missed that.

Folks that don't see,and are insulated from, what is in actuallity a Holy war, just don't get it.

It's an old wound re-opened, and not by us.

Oil is a tool used by the enemy.


Some folks need to wake the hell up.

S-28


Link Posted: 4/17/2008 3:18:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


The Pope, he delivers.

Link Posted: 4/17/2008 5:31:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


The Pope, he delivers.



An apology 30 years after the fact, after the Catholic church has lost billions of dollars in lawsuits? Meh. Doesn't change the fact that those priests were just transferred from parish to parish instead of being reported to the police. The fact is - the church sheltered pedophiles and no amount of apologies will change that fact.
Link Posted: 4/17/2008 5:46:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2008 5:47:34 PM EST by weptek911]

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


I am a lapsed Catholic/Atheist myself but the current Pope is taking on the sex abuse thing head-on. You really should do a little research instead of just knee-jerking before you post. You really out yourself as being uninformed.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 12:32:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By weptek911:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


I am a lapsed Catholic/Atheist myself but the current Pope is taking on the sex abuse thing head-on. You really should do a little research instead of just knee-jerking before you post. You really out yourself as being uninformed.


It seems clear that the only thing that would make him happy, is for the Pope to dissolve the Church.
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 4:09:36 AM EST
Here's a good read from the Asia Pacific Times on Black Liberation Theology.

The peculiar theology of black liberation


Senator Barack Obama is not a Muslim, contrary to invidious rumors. But he belongs to a Christian church whose doctrine casts Jesus Christ as a "black messiah" and blacks as "the chosen people". At best, this is a radically different kind of Christianity than most Americans acknowledge; at worst it is an ethnocentric heresy.

What played out last week on America's television screens was a clash of two irreconcilable cultures, the posture of "black liberation theology" and the mainstream American understanding of Christianity. Obama, who presented himself as a unifying figure, now seems rather the living embodiment of the clash.

Obama referred to this when he asserted in a March 14 statement, "I knew Reverend Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago." But the fact the liberal academy condescends to sponsor black liberation theology does not make it less peculiar to mainstream American Christians. Obama wants to talk about what Wright is, rather than what he says. But that way lies apolitical quicksand.

During the black-power heyday of the late 1960s, after the murder of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr, the mentors of Wright decided that blacks were the Chosen People. James Cone, the most prominent theologian in the "black liberation" school, teaches that Jesus Christ himself is black. As he explains:

"Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants."

Theologically, Cone's argument is as silly as the "Aryan Christianity" popular in Nazi Germany, which claimed that Jesus was not a Jew at all but an Aryan Galilean, and that the Aryan race was the "chosen people". Cone, Hopkins and Wright do not propose, of course, to put non-blacks in concentration camps or to conquer the world, but racially-based theology nonetheless is a greased chute to the nether regions.

Biblical theology teaches that even the most terrible events to befall Israel, such as the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BCE, embody the workings of divine justice, even if humankind cannot see God's purpose. James Cone sees the matter very differently. Either God must do what we want him to do, or we must reject him, Cone maintains:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
Link Posted: 4/18/2008 7:07:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By ben72227:

Originally Posted By bdub:

Originally Posted By ben72227:
Meh.

Fuck him and his ideals - let's see him stop providing shelter to pedophile priests and then maybe I'll look at what he has to say.


The Pope, he delivers.



An apology 30 years after the fact, after the Catholic church has lost billions of dollars in lawsuits? Meh. Doesn't change the fact that those priests were just transferred from parish to parish instead of being reported to the police. The fact is - the church sheltered pedophiles and no amount of apologies will change that fact.


As others have pointed out, you do seem a bit misinformed. The Church acted in good faith on the advice of the then prevaling theory at the time among psychologists and psychiatrists that pedophilia was a curable illness and not a lifelong condition. It was believed by the majority of professionals that counselling and a change of location (to reduce the temptation) was the best way to treat these people. Now that theory has changed; hence the current zero-tolerance policy and the immediate dismissal of priests found engaging in such practices/lifestyles.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 4:05:51 AM EST
.. Gun owners need a "Pope"
The man gets his ring kissed; I said RING KISSED!
How cool is that!
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 4:12:23 AM EST
[Obama] the pope is just bitter [/Obama]
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 6:34:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
[Obama] the pope is just bitter [/Obama]


Well he is White and clearly clings to his religion...
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 9:04:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
[Obama] the pope is just bitter [/Obama]


Well he is White and clearly clings to his religion...


Good read on the OP subject matter. 'Benedict and Bush' from Real Clear Politics.


Pope Benedict XVI came to America, his aides say, mainly to address the United Nations. If journalists expected Benedict to take swipes at President Bush's foreign policy there, they could only be disappointed.

Benedict devoted the balance of his address to a dense explanation of the philosophical basis of human rights. They are founded, he said, "on the natural law inscribed on human hearts and present in different cultures and civilizations." In defending the universality of human rights, Benedict sounded similar to Bush. There's a reason that yesterday Bush declared with gusto at the National Catholic Prayer Breakfast in Washington: "His Holiness believes that freedom is the Almighty's gift to every man, woman and child on Earth."

This was the neglected storyline of Benedict's visit: the consonance of vision of the president and the pontiff. When they stood together on the White House lawn in a majestic welcoming ceremony on Wednesday, it symbolized the growing rapprochement of American evangelical Protestantism and the Catholic Church.

It was West Texas meets Rome; plain-spoken man of faith meets intellectual of great depth; representative of America's awesome secular power meets representative of the spiritual power of Christianity. And more united than divided them.

The Catholic Church long was suspicious of America as a freewheeling Protestant nation that rejected the state support for religion seen in Europe. Not anymore. Benedict appreciates how the separation of church and state as practiced in America has given religion the space to flourish and the respect necessary for it to inform public discourse.

In turn, evangelicals have warmed to the church. As Benedict has said, "They have come to see Catholicism as an upholder of the same ethical values that they themselves profess."

He might as well have been speaking of President Bush, a man famous for his impatience for pomp and circumstance who went all out - from a 21-gun salute to a four-tiered, lemon-flavored birthday cake - for the pontiff. Bush told Benedict, "In a world where some no longer believe that we can distinguish between simple right and wrong, we need your message to reject this 'dictatorship of relativism.' "

The phrase is one of Benedict's signature lines. It was featured in his homily at the 2005 Mass for the papal conclave before his fellow cardinals selected him as pope. Benedict's point was that if relativists consider any claims of moral truth as inherently oppressive, they feel justified in attempting to muzzle those who make them.

This tendency is particularly well-advanced in Europe, where the European Union is a relativist superstate hostile to traditional Christian morality. One of Benedict's missions is to provide Americans a common vocabulary for resisting an aggressive secularism. This accounted for the extraordinary spectacle of a pope on the White House lawn - itself unimaginable a century ago - explaining the fundamentals of American civil religion.
Link Posted: 4/19/2008 9:52:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
[Obama] the pope is just bitter [/Obama]


Well he is White and clearly clings to his religion...


And as I recall, he did grow up in a region that had its industrial base devastated.
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