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Posted: 10/17/2004 2:12:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:20:08 PM EST
thats great!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:21:52 PM EST
[DU] It's all Bush's fault!! If he had only let those drugs in to begin with, all the companies would have sold them to us!![/DU]
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:25:17 PM EST
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:26:19 PM EST
I thought Kerry said, they will sell us cheap drugs, but that was before I asked them not to, and he has a plan.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:28:48 PM EST
The only reason Canadian pharmacies reject Kerry's plan is because US drug companies are threatening to cut their supplies if they reimport the drugs back into the US.

This is not something to be happy about.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:31:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/17/2004 2:32:31 PM EST by benbob]

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.




Dosn't Hitlery own part of one of those evil companies?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:32:39 PM EST
I (sort of) predicted this in a thread a few days ago.

If the US begins to reimport drugs from Canada, it will hasten the death of the market. It will cause reduced profits to the industry, and it won't be able to keep up with demand.

Price controls like these are a pyramid scheme, with Canada at the top. They have no vested interest in sharing their 'system' with others. Because they know it will fail if they do.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:35:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:36:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:36:50 PM EST
"But, but, I have a plan!"

[Pitt_PulpFiction] Go ahead mutha-fugga! I dare you! I double-dawg dare you! Say it mutha-fugga! Say "I have a plan" just one 'mo time![/Pitt_PuplFiction]
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:39:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.



+1
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:42:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
I'm thrilled that another Kerry plan is shown to have no chance of being realized and without merit...



Indeed, what would sick people need with drugs anyway.
I'm thrilled that maybe some old people will die and make more room for me.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:46:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:47:02 PM EST
The more old people that die, the less pressure on resources and the environment.

Or so it's supposed to go.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:51:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
I'm thrilled that another Kerry plan is shown to have no chance of being realized and without merit...



Indeed, what would sick people need with drugs anyway.
I'm thrilled that maybe some old people will die and make more room for me.



How about Canada and the rest of the fucking socialist countries that impose price controls on our drug makers just pay the same as everybody else and therefore they are cheaper for everyone. Why not go bitch at those countries who inflate our drug prices by forcing the drug companies to sell them at below market prices. Take a fucking economics course.



Take a course in sane discussion and get back on those meds that didn't come from Canada.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:53:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
I'm thrilled that another Kerry plan is shown to have no chance of being realized and without merit...



Indeed, what would sick people need with drugs anyway.
I'm thrilled that maybe some old people will die and make more room for me.



Such a plan would increase the real scarcity of said drugs. That's what price controls inevitably do. Even Canada recognizes that, which is why they won't allow these bulk orders. They get cheap drugs from the US, because americans pay the asking price at home, and sustain the industry.

Your problem is with Canadian politicians, not your countrymen who run that industry and are responsible for most of the innovations.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:54:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
How about Canada and the rest of the fucking socialist countries that impose price controls on our drug makers just pay the same as everybody else and therefore they are cheaper for everyone. Why not go bitch at those countries who inflate our drug prices by forcing the drug companies to sell them at below market prices. Take a fucking economics course.



+1

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:55:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By the:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
I'm thrilled that another Kerry plan is shown to have no chance of being realized and without merit...



Indeed, what would sick people need with drugs anyway.
I'm thrilled that maybe some old people will die and make more room for me.



Such a plan would increase the real scarcity of said drugs. That's what price controls inevitably do. Even Canada recognizes that, which is why they won't allow these bulk orders. They get cheap drugs from the US, because americans pay the asking price at home, and sustain the industry.

Your problem is with Canadian politicians, not your countrymen who run that industry and are responsible for most of the innovations.



I have no problem with Canadian politicians . Why would I ? I don't live there.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 2:57:24 PM EST
The oldsters could also use their new Medicare Drug Benefit to reduce their costs too.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:00:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.



Did you know that recently the FDA raided several "companies" on the west coast who were repackaging your imported drugs from Canada?

Know what they found?

Vitamins substituted for the real drug. Mislabeled information on dosages and expiration dates. Medicines being 'stored' in garbage bags in HOT warehouses (drugs break down under heat you see).

So take your sanctimonious know-nothing and ill-educated opinion and stick it up your ass.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:04:23 PM EST
Free markets are good, as long as they are free both ways. Collusion, tiering, price fixing and restrictive trade practices are not part of a free market.

Canada is aware of this and will not participate in the collapse of its own distribution scheme because it relies on this tiering system for its survival.

Thanks to people like John Edwards, if an ins. company denies a drug to a person and that person dies, gues who pays anyway, the ins. co. This allows the drug companies to extort the ins. co. who in turn pass the higher price on to you. There is a reason premiums have been going up at double digit rates: we're collectively paying outrageous sums.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:10:36 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:17:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

I have no problem with Canadian politicians. Why would I ? I don't live there.



Weak.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:20:02 PM EST

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:20:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.



+1



Yeah, it's what we call "capitalism." Unsurprising that those with your beliefs and worldview would think it somehow evil.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:31:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Oh yeah I'm sure you're really happy now that old people will get sicker, as long as bush gets reelected. You see the Drug companies who own Bush's ass are now threatening to cut off Canadas supply if they help Americans get cheaper drugs. That's the American way! A sort of Communism monopoly except instead of members of the communist party getting all the perks it's the Ceo's of international conglomerates.



+1



Yeah, it's what we call "capitalism." Unsurprising that those with your beliefs and worldview would think it somehow evil.



Hey, it's the "Pro Shit Stirrer" ! 'Sup, dog ?

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:39:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, it's the "Pro Shit Stirrer" ! 'Sup, dog ?




The COC prevents me from replying in the way I would like.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:41:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:45:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, it's the "Pro Shit Stirrer" ! 'Sup, dog ?




The COC prevents me from replying in the way I would like.



Where's the love ?
Now, don't get banned and deprive me of the laugh I get from reading your rants .
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:54:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, it's the "Pro Shit Stirrer" ! 'Sup, dog ?




The COC prevents me from replying in the way I would like.



Where's the love ?
Now, don't get banned and deprive me of the laugh I get from reading your rants .



The only one ranting here is you. And I am surprised you're still around, given the way you frequently violate the COC.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:58:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hey, it's the "Pro Shit Stirrer" ! 'Sup, dog ?




The COC prevents me from replying in the way I would like.



Where's the love ?
Now, don't get banned and deprive me of the laugh I get from reading your rants .



The only one ranting here is you. And I am surprised you're still around, given the way you frequently violate the COC.



Hmmm, those in charge must disagree with you. Now why does that NOT surprise me ?
Don't be bitter as it poisons your soul.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:59:31 PM EST
I am sick and tired of argueing with people so fucking low that they are the ones who are forcing people to have to try and attach the word "compassionate" to conservative.

"yeah like fuck'em stupid old people! Sink or swim baby"
"no way! The drug companies don't keep US drug prices artifically high ! You know how I know? The baby Jesus told me so"
"Oh I see, so now I gotta pay high taxes to educate children?? Let'em work in coal mines like in the good old days"
"hey I'm healthy ! all I care about is me and mines! Other Americans? Fuck'em! Drug companies should be able to fix prices and eliminate competition all they want"



But that's OK. Sometimes it's gotta get worse before it gets better. But when the people sweep the Dems into power, then they start gun grabbing again, Don't come bitching to me!
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 3:59:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hmmm, those in charge must disagree with you. Now why does that NOT surprise me ?
Don't be bitter as it poisons your soul.



I don't get bitter over meaningless trivia. And that describes you to a "t."
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:00:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
I am sick and tired of argueing with people so fucking low that they are the ones who are forcing people to have to try and attach the word "compassionate" to conservative.

"yeah like fuck'em stupid old people! Sink or swim baby"
"no way! The drug companies don't keep US drug prices artifically high ! You know how I know? The baby Jesus told me so"
"Oh I see, so now I gotta pay high taxes to educate children?? Let'em work in coal mines like in the good old days"
"hey I'm healthy ! all I care about is me and mines! Other Americans? Fuck'em! Drug companies should be able to fix prices and eliminate competition all they want"



But that's OK. Sometimes it's gotta get worse before it gets better. But when the people sweep the Dems into power, then they start gun grabbing again, Don't come bitching to me!



Rest assured, I won't be seeking you out no matter who wins.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:03:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:06:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:08:41 PM EST
The drugs are sold out side of America at a reduced price because the drug companies know they can count on the American market to pay the true cost of R&D for the drug being sold, as well as all the drugs that did not make it to the market. So, the foreign low cost drugs are actually a subsidy by the American health care consumer (and taxpayer). The reason the Canadians can not allow reimportation is because the drug companies cannot survive at the price the drugs are sold outside America, and Canada cannot afford the true cost of the drugs. As long as the American market exists, the low price sales outside America are pure profit. If the American market goes away, then the sales price is not enough to cover costs and the drug companies go under. The solution for the drug companies is increase the drug price go distribute the total development and production cost over their new market. This would mean the Canadians would pay a realistic price for the drugs.

Of course, the Canadians or any other foreign government could just stop buying the American drugs and start making them themselves. This would of course be a major international problem since it would be a violation of the patent treaties and would require a strong response by the U.S. A lawsuit against Canada and seizure of Canadian assets in the U.S., trade sanctions, military actions, you name it.

The fact remains that health care is expensive because it keeps developing and getting better. Pure and simple. I you do not want the price to go up, then accept today's technology tomorrow and in twenty years. I for one, will not accept this. My kids are alive today due to technology that did not exist twenty years ago. Tech. is good.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:11:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:

But when the people sweep the Dems into power, then they start gun grabbing again, Don't come bitching to me!



So the 'choice' is: Socialist entitlement plans that are already proven to fail, or we take your guns?

Problem is, you rarely get one, without the other.

They both stem from a similar disrespect for individual liberty, claiming to advance 'the greater good.'

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:11:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:15:08 PM EST
Well, if it doesn't intrude on t-stox's dream of a an international socialist ustopia, I'd like to offer an economic fact: if US drug companies were not able to turn a handsome profit from market-driven prices in the US, there wouldn't be any new prescription drugs to buy from regulated-price countries like Canada. The only reason they can afford to develop "wonder drugs" is the profit they can turn on them in the US, where they can charge a price that reflects their investment. If Kerry's reimportation plan had been put in place in 1940, we'd be importing cheap, low-priced sulfa drugs from Canada, and that's it. There wouldn't be any exotic antibiotics, no high-tech blood pressure or cholesterol drugs, no SSRIs, none of it. It is the profits obtainable in a free market that have made it possible for drug companies to invest the billions of dollars it takes to create a drug like Zocor or whatever today's "overpriced" drug-of-the-month is. Allowing large scale reimportation of drugs from price-controlled countries would effectively allow those countries to regulate US drug prices, and would extinguish the profits that make pharmaceutical miracles possible.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:17:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Hmmm, those in charge must disagree with you. Now why does that NOT surprise me ?
Don't be bitter as it poisons your soul.



I don't get bitter over meaningless trivia. And that describes you to a "t."



Yes, you do. You should take up meditation. It will cleanse your spirit.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:18:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Yes, you do. You should take up meditation. It will cleanse your spirit.



And you should take your medication. It will cleanse your posts.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:20:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Yes, you do. You should take up meditation. It will cleanse your spirit.



And you should take your medication. It will cleanse your posts.



Now, now. The bitterness creeps in again. Best go to Canada and get some drugs.

Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:22:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Well, if it doesn't intrude on t-stox's dream of a an international socialist ustopia, I'd like to offer an economic fact: if US drug companies were not able to turn a handsome profit from market-driven prices in the US, there wouldn't be any new prescription drugs to buy from regulated-price countries like Canada. The only reason they can afford to develop "wonder drugs" is the profit they can turn on them in the US, where they can charge a price that reflects their investment. If Kerry's reimportation plan had been put in place in 1940, we'd be importing cheap, low-priced sulfa drugs from Canada, and that's it. There wouldn't be any exotic antibiotics, no high-tech blood pressure or cholesterol drugs, no SSRIs, none of it. It is the profits obtainable in a free market that have made it possible for drug companies to invest the billions of dollars it takes to create a drug like Zocor or whatever today's "overpriced" drug-of-the-month is. Allowing large scale reimportation of drugs from price-controlled countries would effectively allow those countries to regulate US drug prices, and would extinguish the profits that make pharmaceutical miracles possible.



+1

Well said, but doomed to be ignored. I've tried this exact argument, time and time again. Some are simply deaf to it.

Tough to hear with those ushankas pulled down tight over the ears, I reckon.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:27:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 4:46:49 PM EST
Yeah right on camp! Where do these fools get there facts from ? It's gotta be Limbaugh right? You think A guy Like him would appreciate plentyful pills Seriously you guys gotta do some googling. And don't look to Newsmax for "guidance" Almost all drug profits go straight in yaht's and Bently's. They have'nt increased R&D spending in years, it's been flat. But I wnat to guys to at least get on the record....... My "socalist Utopia" notwithstanding, Are there or have there ever been cases in the US where Certain companies conspired with eachother to keep the price of a certain commodity fixed artifically high?? And if so what role should the Go'vt take in breaking up this practice? Actually I already know the answer but I just want to see how self-deluded you really are.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:10:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By the:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Well, if it doesn't intrude on t-stox's dream of a an international socialist ustopia, I'd like to offer an economic fact: if US drug companies were not able to turn a handsome profit from market-driven prices in the US, there wouldn't be any new prescription drugs to buy from regulated-price countries like Canada. The only reason they can afford to develop "wonder drugs" is the profit they can turn on them in the US, where they can charge a price that reflects their investment. If Kerry's reimportation plan had been put in place in 1940, we'd be importing cheap, low-priced sulfa drugs from Canada, and that's it. There wouldn't be any exotic antibiotics, no high-tech blood pressure or cholesterol drugs, no SSRIs, none of it. It is the profits obtainable in a free market that have made it possible for drug companies to invest the billions of dollars it takes to create a drug like Zocor or whatever today's "overpriced" drug-of-the-month is. Allowing large scale reimportation of drugs from price-controlled countries would effectively allow those countries to regulate US drug prices, and would extinguish the profits that make pharmaceutical miracles possible.



+1

Well said, but doomed to be ignored. I've tried this exact argument, time and time again. Some are simply deaf to it.

Tough to hear with those ushankas pulled down tight over the ears, I reckon.



+2

Right now, Americans are subsidizing the low costs that Canadians and others pay for drugs, thanks to price controls in those countries. Faced with either accepting the controls or not selling in those markets, most drug companies simply tack the lost revenue on to the prices of drugs sold in America.

Essentially, buying drugs through Canada would amount to imposing our own back-door price controls on drugs – and with nobody left to subsidize the true cost of drugs, how many companies do you think are going to survive, let alone spend R&D money on new drugs?

This is just one more in a long line of REALLY STUPID Kerry-isms.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:11:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Yes, you do. You should take up meditation. It will cleanse your spirit.



And you should take your medication. It will cleanse your posts.



Now, now. The bitterness creeps in again. Best go to Canada and get some drugs.




When I get old I am going to Canada and driving slow. Till then, I'll stay here and keep annoying you.
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:12:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Yeah right on camp! Where do these fools get there facts from ?



Right! You mean you and Tidler when you say "these fools" right?
Link Posted: 10/17/2004 5:12:10 PM EST
You guys are actually happy with Drug prices?
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