Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 6
Posted: 10/22/2004 4:22:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 4:23:09 AM EST by FALARAK]
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20041022/ap_on_re_us/red_sox_fans

By GREG SUKIENNIK, Associated Press Writer

BOSTON - A college student celebrating the Red Sox come-from-behind victory over the New York Yankees was killed after a police officer called in to control the rowdy crowd shot her in the eye with what was designed to be a non-lethal projectile.


Reuters Photo



Fifteen other people, including a police officer, suffered minor injuries in Boston's Kenmore Square neighborhood early Thursday, after thousands of baseball fans spilled onto the streets near Fenway Park to celebrate the Red Sox winning the American League pennant at Yankee Stadium.


Boston's mayor said he was considering banning alcohol sales in the city during the World Series (news - web sites) to avoid a repeat of the rowdiness.


Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year-old journalism major at Emerson College, was hit by a projectile fired by an officer on crowd-control duty. Snelgrove, of East Bridgewater, died of a head injury at Brigham and Women's Hospital later in the day.


Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said officers were using projectiles "designed to break upon impact, dousing the target with (pepper-like) spray."


"While I firmly and emphatically accept responsibilities for any errors," O'Toole said at a news conference Thursday, "I also condemn in the harshest words possible the actions of the punks (Wednesday) night who turned our city's victory into an opportunity for violence and mindless destruction."


O'Toole and Mayor Thomas Menino pledged to fully investigate. Menino said he will seek cooperation from city colleges, bars in the Fenway Park neighborhood and the Boston Red Sox to help prevent future disturbances. He said he would press colleges to expel students found guilty of criminal conduct in the melee.


Rick Snelgrove expressed outrage and said his daughter did nothing wrong. Standing outside the family home, he held up a photograph of his smiling daughter.


"What happened to her should not happen to any American citizen going to any type of game, no matter what," he said. "She loved the Red Sox. She went in to celebrate with friends. She was a bystander. She was out of the way, but she still got shot. Awful things happen to good people. My daughter was an exceptional person."


Mayor Thomas M. Menino said he was considering prohibiting liquor sales and asking bar and restaurant operators to ban live television coverage during games to curb the rowdiness. "Since people won't accept responsibility, I, as mayor, will take it into my own hands," Menino said Thursday.


Menino planned to meet with bar and nightclub owners Friday. He said he was considering invoking a state law, never before used in Boston, that would allow him to ban the sale or distribution of alcohol "in cases of riot or great public excitement."


Early Thursday, several small fires were set and numerous fights broke out. Boston police reported eight arrests, mostly for disorderly conduct, though one arrest was for assault and battery on a police officer.


City officials had announced there would be a heavy police presence in Kenmore Square for the history-making victory by the Red Sox, who came back from 3-0 deficit to advance to the World Series.


The city had been caught understaffed when riots broke out after the New England Patriots' Super Bowl win Feb. 1, when one person was killed and another critically injured when a vehicle plowed into a crowd of revelers.


Elsewhere Thursday, 29 people were arrested at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst after revelers threw beer cans and flaming toilet paper at police. And at the university's Dartmouth campus, about 2,000 people had to be dispersed by police using stun grenades.


In New Hampshire, police made about 15 disorderly conduct arrests as crowds swarmed the campus of Plymouth State University and surrounding neighborhoods.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:27:59 AM EST
Mayor Thomas M. Menino said he was considering prohibiting liquor sales and asking bar and restaurant operators to ban live television coverage during games to curb the rowdiness. "Since people won't accept responsibility, I, as mayor, will take it into my own hands," Menino said Thursday.

Good Old Massachusetts BIG GOVERMENT. We need to change our state flag to a hammer and sickle.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:28:42 AM EST
1)They shouldn't have been rioting.

2)Aren't you supposed to aim those things real low to avoid such things?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:29:06 AM EST
Stuff happens
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:30:39 AM EST
I thought they were referred to as "LESS LETHAL", because, up close, they CAN be lethal ....
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:31:49 AM EST
trying to control a riot in a lareg city is like trying to put out a wildfire witha garden hose. Shit happens. Wrong place, wrong time.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:31:55 AM EST
Shit happens, she was caught in a bad spot, I'm sure the officer wasn't aiming for her, less than lethals are supposed to be just that, but can cause death on occasion.... such as in this case, and occasionally when hitting someone in the chest around the heart. I understand the parent's outrage and my condolences are with them on the loss of their daughter, but it's not like the officer was aiming for her eye! He'll be emotionally scarred over this as well.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:32:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spade:
1)They shouldn't have been rioting.

2)Aren't you supposed to aim those things real low to avoid such things?



1.) You're correct
2.) You're correct, but it may have been deflected.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:32:04 AM EST
It sounds like they were using Pepperball stuff. Just like paintballs, if it hits you square in the eye, it will go through your soft gray matter and stop in the back of your head. That's why you wear goggles playing paintball.

They also have different "pepperballs" one is filled with OC, another with paint to mark subjects, but they also have one that is harder and intended to break glass (so they could get to a subject in a car, for example). She could have been hit by one of these too.

A real tragedy too, she was only 21.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:35:09 AM EST
I'm just glad no cats were killed.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:35:19 AM EST
shoot them in the face!


oh yea. a paint ball strike to the face with a mask is not fun. without is criminal.

moral. if you are caught in a riot walk away. don't stand around and watch the cops to see what they are going to do. Riots are not cool. it's easy to die in one.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:36:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:38:02 AM EST
They should have just used a tazer.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:41:03 AM EST
journalism major......just happened to be in the thick of things.......

I hate to hear it happened, but I couldn't help notice that......
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:41:57 AM EST
Water cannons work great in 45 degree weather...once you get nice and wet, your will to live gets sapped lol.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:42:03 AM EST
During the DNC the local news stations were covering the great new FN303s the Boston cops had. Riot control seemed like a good thing then- look at the accuracy of that system! Look at the CONTROL they gushed! Now the press will take the same footage and say the Boston police are the least trained most bloodthirsty crew of nazibastards who ever strapped on an armband. Geez, look at them gloat over that....weapon.

I have no specific information that it was the FN system involved, but it matches the police description of what was used in this incident.

IF it was the FN system it is advertised (and I am sure marketed) by FN as LESS LETHAL not NON LETHAL. This distinction will be lost on most.

I am a life long Red Sox fan, and this is goddamn tragic. Tragic all around. Tragic for the victim and her family. Tragic for the officers involved. The people at fault, the criminal "fans" are to blame and they will be the only ones who go unpunished.

I say take away those FN303s and give the cops nightsticks. Yea, how lethal can a stick be? Oh, wait....



Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:42:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By skid2964:
I thought they were referred to as "LESS LETHAL", because, up close, they CAN be lethal ....



You're right. I've been shot with a bean bag round through a level III Tac vest. It hurt like hell. A strike in the head/eye could definetly kill. Someone F'up bad.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:49:40 AM EST
Check out the particulars on the FN system:
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/ll_303.htm
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:49:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By HeldHostage:
Shit happens



Bull. Fucking. Shit.



I'm sure the officer wasn't aiming for her,



Then what the hell WAS he aiming at?


I understand the parent's outrage


You don't sound like you do. If that were my daughter, I'd want that son of a bitches head on a platter and I'd probably go collect it myself.



but it's not like the officer was aiming for her eye!



Oh, well hell then let's just forget about it. Do you want to dig the hole for her, or should I?



He'll be emotionally scarred over this as well.


Emotionally scarred? WTF? At least he has the benefit of being alive to deal with it, doesn't he?


I normally don't respond to these threads 'cause they piss me off so much. HeldHostage, while these comments are directed at your thoughts on the matter, don't feel like you're alone. Anybody else who takes this attitude towards fuckin' cops that pull this shit, can consider themselves included in this post too.

I'm at work and don't have time to keep this discussion up right now. But I will be back to address the responses to this later. So fire away, people.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:54:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 4:58:30 AM EST by viper5194]
the only people that fucked up where the dumb ass'es who decided to be unruley and riot .... They waste our tax dollars, destroy property, INJURE POLICE OFFICERS, (just in case someone missed that part) and people like that need to be put in there place. If it calls for takeing out one or two, maybe they will get the message.... she wasnt in the wrong place at the wrong time, she was where she chose to be at that particular time takeing part in the activities that required a police pressence. I have no sympathy for idiots like them........... If your shooting into a CROWD of say 100,000 people what do you aim at? Maybe he was aiming at someone else and she bent over or somthing, no one will ever know. I very seriously doubt the officer intended on hitting this poor innocent girl who chose to be where she was in her quarter sized eye ball....... God takes you when he wants you, guess it was her time..........
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:57:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By viper5194:
the only people that fucked up where the dumb ass'es who decided to be unruley and riot ....





Yep, the cop didn't do nothing wrong, did he? I swear go God I'm gonna have an anurism if y'all keep this shit up. Does anybody here have kids of their own?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:58:13 AM EST
I don't blame them one bit for being heavy handed. Sorry that girl died. I just don't understand why people have to break shit and be general misfits over a baseball game.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:02:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 5:03:40 AM EST by viper5194]
A3kid... Ask yourself this question.... If you have kids, are your kids raised well enough to KNOW BETTER not to take part in the type of actions these ass hats took part in after the game was WON....... this is not about haveing kids or not, this is about those kids knowing the difference between right and wrong. she chose to be part of that crowd and paid dearly for it....
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:03:23 AM EST
We should Ban Sports.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:06:17 AM EST
At least the cop went home safe........
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:06:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
shoot them in the face!


oh yea. a paint ball strike to the face with a mask is not fun. without is criminal.

moral. if you are caught in a riot walk away. don't stand around and watch the cops to see what they are going to do. Riots are not cool. it's easy to die in one.



That's for sure! A riot is one of the scariest things you can have happen around you. I'll take zombies ANY OL' DAY!!!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:07:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By viper5194:
the only people that fucked up where the dumb ass'es who decided to be unruley and riot ....





Yep, the cop didn't do nothing wrong, did he? I swear go God I'm gonna have an anurism if y'all keep this shit up. Does anybody here have kids of their own?



You gonna a approve of your child participating in a sports riot.
Even those e that swarm there just to reveal in the fun are part of the problem.

Teach her that and I am sure you will never morn her loss at one of those things.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:08:23 AM EST
shit happens? I am over-freaking-whelmed by the amount of compassion on this board. I'm sure those are the first words out of everyone's mouth when their child/spouse/parent/other loved one dies.

before a horde of officers who also weren't there comes to tell me how I don't know squat about squat... a moment of silence for the young girl whose life was tragically ended

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:08:54 AM EST
Yup, again the AR15 reaction.............. Someone was hurt by the police, outrageous...................

Next week someone will post that their property was damaged during a riot, and then complain that the police should've been gassing, bean-bagging, and clubbing anyone in the general area..............
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:10:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
We should Ban Sports.


We should ban guns.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:10:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Yup, again the AR15 reaction.............. Someone was hurt by the police, outrageous...................

Next week someone will post that their property was damaged during a riot, and then complain that the police should've been gassing, bean-bagging, and clubbing anyone in the general area..............



hurt is the word you use for this? I thought killed dead was a bit more accurate
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:11:39 AM EST
Good thing there weren't any dogs around.....

Rioters get what they ask for. You escalate the violence and the police really have no choice in the matter (outside of security) to up the ante. Sad situation. The blood of that girls death is on the hands of the rioter who started it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:12:17 AM EST
I don't think the police did anything wrong. A tragedy, for sure. However, you'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that hanging out during a riot is harmless entertainment.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:13:10 AM EST
I guess journalism majors at Emerson College don't know enough to not be part of a rioting crowd. From all the video I've seen it sure didn't look like any passive celebration. Even a witness said on camera that the officer fired into a specific group after a bottle was thrown at(him).
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:13:32 AM EST
This is from someone who supposedly witnessed it.

The Police officer was on horse back and someone threw a beer bottle at the horse's rear end. Whenthe bottle hit the horse, it jumped and the gun fired.

Bear in mind this is second hand knowledge.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:15:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By viper5194:
the only people that fucked up where the dumb ass'es who decided to be unruley and riot ....





Yep, the cop didn't do nothing wrong, did he? I swear go God I'm gonna have an anurism if y'all keep this shit up. Does anybody here have kids of their own?



I have a daughter. I would be outraged. I would want his head on a platter. But this isn't the first person to be killed in the wrong place at the wrong time. You don't think the officer will be taken under investigation and disciplined??? You don't think that he feels absolutely rotten over this??? I've known officers who had justified homicides in the line of duty who still felt like crap about the whole thing. What was he aiming for?? Probably someone else who moved! IT HAPPENS!! No one's perfect, not even you.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:18:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By HeldHostage:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By viper5194:
the only people that fucked up where the dumb ass'es who decided to be unruley and riot ....





Yep, the cop didn't do nothing wrong, did he? I swear go God I'm gonna have an anurism if y'all keep this shit up. Does anybody here have kids of their own?



I have a daughter. I would be outraged. I would want his head on a platter. But this isn't the first person to be killed in the wrong place at the wrong time. You don't think the officer will be taken under investigation and disciplined??? You don't think that he feels absolutely rotten over this??? I've known officers who had justified homicides in the line of duty who still felt like crap about the whole thing. What was he aiming for?? Probably someone else who moved! IT HAPPENS!! No one's perfect, not even you.



I truly wonder whether he gives it a second thought beyond how it will impact his career and record. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the officer's attitude is the same as so many here... "she deserved it" or the infinitely more compassionate "shit happens"
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:20:38 AM EST
They used to call something like this 'death by misadventure'. It wasn't supposed to happen, but the one-in-a-million shot came in and a less (than) lethal round killed someone. I feel sorry for the student and her parents, but when you are less than peacefully assembled, and the police tell you to break it up, it is time to pack up and go home. Otherwise, bad stuff like this can happen.

A similar thing happened in Tucson a couple years back. The young hooligan didn't die, but lost his eye. There was this great cry to 'retrain' the police in less than lethal weapons. Retrain to do what? Miss the little darlings? This isn't like the tazing of Granny, this was actual damage to property, and endangering life, setting fires, etc. The police in this case definitely acted responsibly.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:21:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
This is from someone who supposedly witnessed it.

The Police officer was on horse back and someone threw a beer bottle at the horse's rear end. Whenthe bottle hit the horse, it jumped and the gun fired.




IF this is the case, then I'll make him an appointment w/ my 11yo daughter to discuss rule #2 of firearm safety.

KEEP YOUR BUGGER HOOK OFF THE FUCKIN' BANG BUTTON!

Maybe, just MAYBE - he'd understand it if someone discusss it with him on his level.

*I said "IF"....

Unbelieveable....
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:23:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:
hurt is the word you use for this? I thought killed dead was a bit more accurate



Could even use "negligent homicide" to describe it.

If this was a civilian shooting, we would be investigate for AT LEAST that much of a charge. I dont support rioters... but we were not there. We dont know what that girl was doing at the time.

In any case.... the whole reason there was such a police presence was in response to previous problems that left one person dead.

Now.... BECAUSE of strong police presence, there is one person dead. We dont know all the facts.... but we do know an officer shot a young girl, and she died. And what we learn from this tragedy should be equally as strong a response.... and change tactics.... to prevent this possibly negligent death from occuring in the future, at the hands of those who are supposed to be keeping the peace.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:24:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

You gonna a approve of your child participating in a sports riot.




Did I say that? Did I fucking say that Cyanide? Fuck no I didn't say that. Nice twist though.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:24:42 AM EST
There are no winners here on either side! There is plenty of blame to go around starting with the rioters and ending with ill trained officers. It's a tragedy that shouldn't have happened. As someone said, sometimes bad things happen to good people.

There are lessons to be learned on both sides.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:24:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
Yup, again the AR15 reaction.............. Someone was hurt by the police, outrageous...................

Next week someone will post that their property was damaged during a riot, and then complain that the police should've been gassing, bean-bagging, and clubbing anyone in the general area..............



hurt is the word you use for this? I thought killed dead was a bit more accurate



It's a general comment related to the AR15 responses to incidents like this.

Always interesting when AR15's opine that a person tresspassing in their house after dark would be shot.

But a police officer shouldn't point his gun at the same burgalry suspect, unless the suspect has a weapon.

Any lose dogs or cats on an ARFCOM'ers property is to be immediately shot.

A dog attacking an officer shouldn't be shot until after it actually bites the officer.

An ARFCOM'er should never be more that 10' from a weapon inside their house, in case of sudden UN zombie attack.

An officer with a handgun and an AR15 is a wanna be SEAL-Mall Ninja

A riot breaking out in front of an ARFCOM'ers home or business will be met with gun fire

But an officer firing an OC ball, designed not to seriously injure, is a irresponsible hot head.

I understand the thought process of this site.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:27:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
It's a general comment related to the AR15 responses to incidents like this.

Always interesting when AR15's opine that a person tresspassing in their house after dark would be shot.

But a police officer shouldn't point his gun at the same burgalry suspect, unless the suspect has a weapon.

Any lose dogs or cats on an ARFCOM'ers property is to be immediately shot.

A dog attacking an officer shouldn't be shot until after it actually bites the officer.

An ARFCOM'er should never be more that 10' from a weapon inside their house, in case of sudden UN zombie attack.

An officer with a handgun and an AR15 is a wanna be SEAL-Mall Ninja

A riot breaking out in front of an ARFCOM'ers home or business will be met with gun fire

But an officer firing an OC ball, designed not to seriously injure, is a irresponsible hot head.

I understand the thought process of this site.



Let's not generalize everyone here. Please
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:27:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:
This is from someone who supposedly witnessed it.

The Police officer was on horse back and someone threw a beer bottle at the horse's rear end. Whenthe bottle hit the horse, it jumped and the gun fired.

Bear in mind this is second hand knowledge.



If that is true, that would bring even more liability upon the officer.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:27:51 AM EST
Was the officer in fear for his life?

Did he use every other means necessary to control the situation before using *potentially* deadly force?

Or did he wanna try out his new crowd control gun?

Did he aim it right for her face?

Was he properly trained in the use of such potentially deadly force, and was this use justified?

Since some of you wanna speculate... I think I will too.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:28:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nozzleman:
There are no winners here on either side! There is plenty of blame to go around starting with the rioters and ending with ill trained officers. It's a tragedy that shouldn't have happened. As someone said, sometimes bad things happen to good people.

There are lessons to be learned on both sides.



That is probably the BEST is can be summed up. My prayers are with the family.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:30:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgthoskins:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
It's a general comment related to the AR15 responses to incidents like this.

Always interesting when AR15's opine that a person tresspassing in their house after dark would be shot.

But a police officer shouldn't point his gun at the same burgalry suspect, unless the suspect has a weapon.

Any lose dogs or cats on an ARFCOM'ers property is to be immediately shot.

A dog attacking an officer shouldn't be shot until after it actually bites the officer.

An ARFCOM'er should never be more that 10' from a weapon inside their house, in case of sudden UN zombie attack.

An officer with a handgun and an AR15 is a wanna be SEAL-Mall Ninja

A riot breaking out in front of an ARFCOM'ers home or business will be met with gun fire

But an officer firing an OC ball, designed not to seriously injure, is a irresponsible hot head.

I understand the thought process of this site.



Let's not generalize everyone here. Please



All taken from previous threads.

31 warning shot for an attempted jet-ski theft.

Oh, would this incident have happened if the South won their treasonous seccesion?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:31:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 5:32:49 AM EST by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
It's a general comment related to the AR15 responses to incidents like this.

Always interesting when AR15's opine that a person tresspassing in their house after dark would be shot.

But a police officer shouldn't point his gun at the same burgalry suspect, unless the suspect has a weapon.

Any lose dogs or cats on an ARFCOM'ers property is to be immediately shot.

A dog attacking an officer shouldn't be shot until after it actually bites the officer.

An ARFCOM'er should never be more that 10' from a weapon inside their house, in case of sudden UN zombie attack.

An officer with a handgun and an AR15 is a wanna be SEAL-Mall Ninja

A riot breaking out in front of an ARFCOM'ers home or business will be met with gun fire

But an officer firing an OC ball, designed not to seriously injure, is a irresponsible hot head.

I understand the thought process of this site.



Grow up. A girl is dead.... its being discussed. YOU are the only one being inflammatory with CRAP. YOU are the one further bringing out the "us and them" crap by continually bringing this type of attitude up.

Your "brother" doesnt need your protection. He will have a big blue wall in Boston to take care of him.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:31:51 AM EST
Again, if anyone thinks that hanging out during a riot is harmless entertainment, that person is an idiot.

If somebody walks across the freeway at night and gets hit by a car, it may be a tragedy, but it's also avoidable.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:31:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By legalese77:

I truly wonder whether he gives it a second thought beyond how it will impact his career and record. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the officer's attitude is the same as so many here... "she deserved it" or the infinitely more compassionate "shit happens"




I don't believe she deserved it, I believe it was unfortunate and something terrible befell her. But would you prefer spit happens? I have a bib that says that.....

I'm damn sure he's contemplated more than how it will affect his career. Many have quit over such an event without being asked to resign.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 6
Top Top