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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/21/2005 3:05:02 PM EDT


"Police officers in N.M., other states sue stun-gun maker
Police officers are suing the maker of the Taser stun gun.
Last Update: 08/20/2005 3:29:33 PM
By: Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) - Police officers in New Mexico and four other states have filed lawsuits against Arizona-based Taser International.
The officers allege serious injuries after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.
All of the lawsuits have been filed in the past two weeks in Phoenix on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio.
The officers allege they suffered “severe and permanent” injuries.
Those include multiple spinal fractures, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries.
Scottsdale, Arizona-based Taser has marketed the weapons to 7,000 law enforcement agencies and promoted the gun’s safety.
The devices temporarily paralyze people with a 50,000-volt jolt."




Hmmm, I gotta wonder what the motivation is here, especially after New Mexico cops have tasered people which have died from the incident, and the cops said it was still a safe tool to use.

Aren't soft tissue injuries the bread-and-butter of personal-injury lawyers?

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:13:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A: The officers allege serious injuries after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.
What did they think they were getting into? Slap fighting? I wonder how many cops said, "It's OK man. I'll take your word for it. Now gimme one of those Tasers".
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:13:31 PM EDT
I'm just not seeing it. Burns, yes, I've seen scars about 1/2 inch diameter from the probes. The rest of it is a training issue. If you don't let people fall onto the fllor during taser quals, this won't happen. They should be suing the departments that allowed them to train in a way that they could be injured.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:18:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 3:19:09 PM EDT by lu380]

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
I'm just not seeing it. Burns, yes, I've seen scars about 1/2 inch diameter from the probes. The rest of it is a training issue. If you don't let people fall onto the fllor during taser quals, this won't happen. They should be suing the departments that allowed them to train in a way that they could be injured.



Worker's compensation law precludes tham from suing their employer. The only party they can sue is tha taser manufacturer.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:22:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 3:23:10 PM EDT by 1Andy2]
Maybe they should treat TASERs as the firearms they are?

Well, not how the typical dreadlocked ATF agent treats firearms...

eta: It's LESS Lethal, not NON lethal.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:24:19 PM EDT
"And in my day we used blanks..."
-Capt. O'Hagen
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:32:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Maybe they should treat TASERs as the firearms they are?

Well, not how the typical dreadlocked ATF agent treats firearms...

eta: It's LESS Lethal, not NON lethal.



I would expect a comment like this from someone in Kalifornia, not Texas you dumbass.

They don't meet the legal definition of Firearm.

Do you want BB guns and paintball markers classified as firearms too?

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:34:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Maybe they should treat TASERs as the firearms they are?

Well, not how the typical dreadlocked ATF agent treats firearms...

eta: It's LESS Lethal, not NON lethal.



I would expect a comment like this from someone in Kalifornia, not Texas you dumbass.

They don't meet the legal definition of Firearm.

Do you want BB guns and paintball markers classified as firearms too?




Neither does a pre-1899 FIREARM. Does that mean you'll let me shoot you with one?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:36:14 PM EDT
Someone here posted an example of a Taser lawsuit awhile back.

In a nutshell...

Police officer had a prisoner in custody in the rear seat of her cruiser.

Prisoner became unruly.

Officer reached for her Taser to subdue/calm subject down.

Instead of her Taser, the officer drew her side arm, shot and killed the guy.

Next of kin attempted to sue police department, but was denied because some law exempted the department/community from being sued.

Instead, the PD/community cajoled the next of kin to enjoin in a lawsuit against Taser (claims that Taser failed to provide adequate training and that the Taser units too closely resemble a genuine firearm).

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:38:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Maybe they should treat TASERs as the firearms they are?

Well, not how the typical dreadlocked ATF agent treats firearms...

eta: It's LESS Lethal, not NON lethal.



I would expect a comment like this from someone in Kalifornia, not Texas you dumbass.

They don't meet the legal definition of Firearm.

Do you want BB guns and paintball markers classified as firearms too?




Neither does a pre-1899 FIREARM. Does that mean you'll let me shoot you with one?



Whether or not it will hurt me doesn't mean you should use the WRONG definition,
and apply bullshit laws to it.

Next you will call a steak knife a firearm.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:47:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Maybe they should treat TASERs as the firearms they are?

Well, not how the typical dreadlocked ATF agent treats firearms...

eta: It's LESS Lethal, not NON lethal.



I would expect a comment like this from someone in Kalifornia, not Texas you dumbass.

They don't meet the legal definition of Firearm.

Do you want BB guns and paintball markers classified as firearms too?




Neither does a pre-1899 FIREARM. Does that mean you'll let me shoot you with one?



Whether or not it will hurt me doesn't mean you should use the WRONG definition,
and apply bullshit laws to it.

Next you will call a steak knife a firearm.



I don't care if they classify it as butter on rye bread. I don't want a cop hitting me with something that could end my life just to "calm me down."

Where in my post did I say they should CLASSIFY anything as a firearm? I said (and common sense dictates) that you treat a projectile weapon which inflicts stopping power (in this case a bigass electric shock) a firearm for purposes of SAFETY and WHEN TO USE IT.

Are you advocating that any WEAPON which isn't legally defined as a FIREARM be used casually and carelessly for any reason whatsoever?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 3:49:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 3:49:38 PM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By LoginName: Police officer had a prisoner in custody in the rear seat of her cruiser. Prisoner became unruly. Officer reached for her Taser to subdue/calm subject down. Instead of her Taser, the officer drew her side arm, shot and killed the guy.
Give that cop a medal! She did society a favor.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:01:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:

Where in my post did I say they should CLASSIFY anything as a firearm? I said (and common sense dictates) that you treat a projectile weapon which inflicts stopping power (in this case a bigass electric shock) a firearm for purposes of SAFETY and WHEN TO USE IT.

Are you advocating that any WEAPON which isn't legally defined as a FIREARM be used casually and carelessly for any reason whatsoever?



Obviously a person should treat anything that can cause harm with respect,
whether it is a Taser, a firearm, a steak knife, or a Pitt Bull.
But don't get sloppy when putting lables on things.
YOU called it a firearm in your first post, when it isn't.

Illinois Governor Blagojevich seems to think it is a firearm too, since
he passed a law requiring residents have a Firearm ID card to own one.

I'm a little touchy on the subject of the definition of firearm because a police department
arrested me and some friends and charged us with illegal possession of firearms on State
property. Our "firearms" were paintball guns. We had to pay an attorney to remind the
men in blue what the legal definition of a firearm was. Case dismissed, but damn.


Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:

"Police officers in N.M., other states sue stun-gun maker
Police officers are suing the maker of the Taser stun gun.
Last Update: 08/20/2005 3:29:33 PM
By: Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) - Police officers in New Mexico and four other states have filed lawsuits against Arizona-based Taser International.
The officers allege serious injuries after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.
All of the lawsuits have been filed in the past two weeks in Phoenix on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio.
The officers allege they suffered “severe and permanent” injuries.
Those include multiple spinal fractures, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries.
Scottsdale, Arizona-based Taser has marketed the weapons to 7,000 law enforcement agencies and promoted the gun’s safety.
The devices temporarily paralyze people with a 50,000-volt jolt."




Hmmm, I gotta wonder what the motivation is here, especially after New Mexico cops have tasered people which have died from the incident, and the cops said it was still a safe tool to use.

Aren't soft tissue injuries the bread-and-butter of personal-injury lawyers?




This is utter and total bullshit. What a bunch of panty-waists.

I am a Taser instructor and I have been hit with it numerous times while doing demos/training sims for my PD and other agencies.

Man the fuck up, sissies.



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:25:06 PM EDT
taze! ug er.....i mean TAG
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:28:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 4:28:36 PM EDT by HKS]
Tasers not only look like they hurt, they actually kill people.

If I am ever drunk and beligerant because of alchohol (which I cant help anyways because it takes away my inhibitions) then please I am not a huge person, just wrestle me to the ground nice and easy.

I dont want to die by some taser shot.

I agree that taser's should be banned and only used in situations where you have the authority to kill somebody to begin with. It is not a perfected science and shouldnt be used whenever police feel like it.

That is my opinion because tasers scare me.



Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:40:53 PM EDT
I thinks its great that the Tazers can do this much damage.Will make the next some bitch think twice when he doesnt listen to a cop when he's told to assume the position.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:42:42 PM EDT
That's funny, considering all the people who post here saying Tasers are 100% safe because "well by golly, cops use them on each other in training so it MUST be safe!"
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:47:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By GAU5-A-A:

"Police officers in N.M., other states sue stun-gun maker
Police officers are suing the maker of the Taser stun gun.
Last Update: 08/20/2005 3:29:33 PM
By: Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) - Police officers in New Mexico and four other states have filed lawsuits against Arizona-based Taser International.
The officers allege serious injuries after being shocked with the electronic stun gun during training classes.
All of the lawsuits have been filed in the past two weeks in Phoenix on behalf of officers in Florida, Kansas, New Mexico and Ohio.
The officers allege they suffered “severe and permanent” injuries.
Those include multiple spinal fractures, burns, a shoulder dislocation and soft-tissue injuries.
Scottsdale, Arizona-based Taser has marketed the weapons to 7,000 law enforcement agencies and promoted the gun’s safety.
The devices temporarily paralyze people with a 50,000-volt jolt."




Hmmm, I gotta wonder what the motivation is here, especially after New Mexico cops have tasered people which have died from the incident, and the cops said it was still a safe tool to use.

Aren't soft tissue injuries the bread-and-butter of personal-injury lawyers?




This is utter and total bullshit. What a bunch of panty-waists.

I am a Taser instructor and I have been hit with it numerous times while doing demos/training sims for my PD and other agencies.

Man the fuck up, sissies.



Sheep



This is what happens when you ban chokeholds and a good ol'fashioned beat down in the back of a paddy wagon.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 4:51:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 4:52:28 PM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By HKS:
Tasers not only look like they hurt, they actually kill people.

If I am ever drunk and beligerant because of alchohol (which I cant help anyways because it takes away my inhibitions) then please I am not a huge person, just wrestle me to the ground nice and easy.

I dont want to die by some taser shot.

I agree that taser's should be banned and only used in situations where you have the authority to kill somebody to begin with. It is not a perfected science and shouldnt be used whenever police feel like it.

That is my opinion because tasers scare me.






Clueless.

The whole POINT of Tasers is to AVOID having to wrestle with someone.


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:03:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By HKS:
Tasers not only look like they hurt, they actually kill people.

If I am ever drunk and beligerant because of alchohol (which I cant help anyways because it takes away my inhibitions) then please I am not a huge person, just wrestle me to the ground nice and easy.

I dont want to die by some taser shot.

I agree that taser's should be banned and only used in situations where you have the authority to kill somebody to begin with. It is not a perfected science and shouldnt be used whenever police feel like it.

That is my opinion because tasers scare me.






Clueless.

The whole POINT of Tasers is to AVOID having to wrestle with someone.


Sheep



Tasers are not billy club replacements. To bad you got to wrestle a perp to the ground to cuff him. Its your job. If you can't kill them then its out with the night stick.

Lets get this straight. Tasers are a step between a club and a firearm, heavily leaning towards a firearm. Lazy cops who think they can get away with tazing anyone and everyone should be fired for negligence because thats what it is. They wouldn't be on the force long if they shot a drunk in the leg for resisting would they? But gee Capt it was only in the leg, how was I supposed to know a arty is down there...come on let back in.

I've said this many times we need intelligence tests for cops.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:09:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By HKS:
Tasers not only look like they hurt, they actually kill people.

If I am ever drunk and beligerant because of alchohol (which I cant help anyways because it takes away my inhibitions) then please I am not a huge person, just wrestle me to the ground nice and easy.

I dont want to die by some taser shot.

I agree that taser's should be banned and only used in situations where you have the authority to kill somebody to begin with. It is not a perfected science and shouldnt be used whenever police feel like it.

That is my opinion because tasers scare me.






Clueless.

The whole POINT of Tasers is to AVOID having to wrestle with someone.


Sheep





+1


I can say no more due to possible CoC violations.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:37:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
This is what happens when you ban chokeholds and a good ol'fashioned beat down in the back of a paddy wagon.



There is no such thing as a choke hold.

Carotid Artery Restraint works like a charm though!


Sheep
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:38:56 PM EDT
As a law enforcement Taser instructor, let me just say this:

PUSSIES!

And also, I call as to their injuries.

What a pathetic display of manginas.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:39:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 5:41:18 PM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Tasers are not billy club replacements. To bad you got to wrestle a perp to the ground to cuff him. Its your job. If you can't kill them then its out with the night stick.

Lets get this straight. Tasers are a step between a club and a firearm, heavily leaning towards a firearm. Lazy cops who think they can get away with tazing anyone and everyone should be fired for negligence because thats what it is. They wouldn't be on the force long if they shot a drunk in the leg for resisting would they? But gee Capt it was only in the leg, how was I supposed to know a arty is down there...come on let back in.

I've said this many times we need intelligence tests for cops.



Again...clueless. Post your department's Use of Force continum and show me where Tasers fall on it.

There is some much horseshit in your post I don't even know where to start.

I can guarantee you if I get the stick out, you are going to wish you had been tased.


Sheep

Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:43:42 PM EDT
Stepping out before I violate CoC.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 7:36:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Tasers are not billy club replacements. To bad you got to wrestle a perp to the ground to cuff him. Its your job. If you can't kill them then its out with the night stick.

Lets get this straight. Tasers are a step between a club and a firearm, heavily leaning towards a firearm. Lazy cops who think they can get away with tazing anyone and everyone should be fired for negligence because thats what it is. They wouldn't be on the force long if they shot a drunk in the leg for resisting would they? But gee Capt it was only in the leg, how was I supposed to know a arty is down there...come on let back in.

I've said this many times we need intelligence tests for cops.



Again...clueless. Post your department's Use of Force continum and show me where Tasers fall on it.

There is some much horseshit in your post I don't even know where to start.

I can guarantee you if I get the stick out, you are going to wish you had been tased.


Sheep




Really? So if I die from being tazed I'm going to wish I had some stitches instead from your night stick. You sure about that? I happen to have a hereditary heart condition and would be in the high risk category for ending up dead if some cop tazed me.

If someone is wielding an edged weapon, or threatening suicide or whatever else that hand to hand isn’t viable then a tazer vice a gun is fine. Otherwise tazing a pissed off school girl, an old grandma, and a drunken redneck who is getting a DUI is out of line. I don't care what any agencies policies are; it’s exactly my point those policies are out of whack

I know that cops feel that it’s a tool that lets them keep safe distances and have no contact submission. It protects their lives yada yada. So does having a shoot to kill policy on anyone breaking the law, prevents the chance a cop will get hurt or killed in the line of duty. But such a policy is unacceptable in this country. Tazing anyone and everyone is also unacceptable JUST to prevent physical contact to cuff someone. Being a cop is a dangerous business, and you just got to accept that sometimes your going to ground with someone.

Sometimes it IS warranted, but in 90% of the documented uses it hasn't been warranted.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 9:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2005 9:57:05 PM EDT by RABIDFOX50]

Originally Posted By SoCalJBT:
As a law enforcement Taser instructor, let me just say this:

PUSSIES!

And also, I call as to their injuries.

What a pathetic display of manginas.



Been tased 3 times in training. 2 were with the prongs taped to me, the third I was shot in the back at about 6 yards. No ill effects here. And no, I was crazy BEFORE I got my hits.

I agree with SoCalJBT.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 10:40:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
I can guarantee you if I get the stick out, you are going to wish you had been tased.


Sheep



Then you don't know how to use the stick. It sounds like for you it is then a power play instead of a useful tool-what a tool. With some education you may change your tune.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:22:40 PM EDT
Ya know....to a 20 or 30 sumptin in real good physical shape?...taking a taser hit is probably no biggy...and they probably call dibs on being volunteer guiney pig just to prove to their compadres what a Big Tough Brave Man they are...and of course the little perks like getting the rest of and/or the next day off with pay for their voluntary services....not all but some departments...but I'll tell you young guns this much...you run 50,000 Volts through my 47 year old @$$ and your next move better be calling for the paramedics crash team.....unless of course you'd like my wife to sue your dept. for "excessive force/wrongful death"....and then have my father blow your @$$ away for killing his only son....serious $hit here gents...thinking caps better be in the on position before deciding to down anything past a middle aged man via taser...and SHAME ON YA if your only reason to deploy such force is to facilitate an "easier on you" cuffing.

Conversly?...I think if any perp causes an LEO to feel threatened enough to consider deployment of a taser?...he oughta be drawing something that capable of more than just one shot...as it works both ways...and suppose you only single prong Mr. Nutzoid Meth'ed Out Zombie Monster...and just pi$$'im off real bad...and 2 seconds later you whored down to the ground looking at the business end of your own duty pistol?...while your now armed with what appears to be a yellow plastic garden hose nozzle...which is having just about as much affect as one on the perp?

Fug a Taser....They ain't good for anybody imho...the cops, or the casual mouthy and biligerant aged civilians...they are a liability looking for a place to happen....and to all concerned.

and that's my 2 1/2 cents.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:32:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red-don:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
I can guarantee you if I get the stick out, you are going to wish you had been tased.


Sheep



Then you don't know how to use the stick. It sounds like for you it is then a power play instead of a useful tool-what a tool. With some education you may change your tune.



I swear...where do you people come from?

Where is the world you live in where throwing pillows at the badguys gets them to comply?

Let's see, the stick, with steel tip and headspeed of around 75mph if I am swinging the 31" ASP versus momentary complete muscle siezure from a taser. Getting nailed with the stick hurts. What am I supposed to do...tap them politely with it? As for the taser, as soon as my finger comes off the trigger, the pain stops.

The stick leaves a mark, pure and simple. It hurts like hell and it's SUPPOSED to. That's why it's callled PAIN COMPLIANCE.

As far as education...give me a break. I have a B.A. and nearly 15 years as a cop, including with the Chicago Housing Authority and the Chicago Police. I've been shot, stabbed and broken more bones on the job than most people here have birthdays. It's a rough job. Go throw your thinly vieled insults at someone else.



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:35:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By red-don:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
I can guarantee you if I get the stick out, you are going to wish you had been tased.


Sheep



Then you don't know how to use the stick. It sounds like for you it is then a power play instead of a useful tool-what a tool. With some education you may change your tune.



I swear...where do you people come from?

Where is the world you live in where throwing pillows at the badguys gets them to comply?

Let's see, the stick, with steel tip and headspeed of around 75mph if I am swinging the 31" ASP versus momentary complete muscle siezure from a taser. Getting nailed with the stick hurts. What am I supposed to do...tap them politely with it? As for the taser, as soon as my finger comes off the trigger, the pain stops.

The stick leaves a mark, pure and simple. It hurts like hell and it's SUPPOSED to. That's why it's callled PAIN COMPLIANCE.

As far as education...give me a break. I have a B.A. and nearly 15 years as a cop, including with the Chicago Housing Authority and the Chicago Police. I've been shot, stabbed and broken more bones on the job than most people here have birthdays. It's a rough job. Go throw your thinly vieled insults at someone else.



Sheep



I think his (not so) thinkly veiled insult was aimed at your Billy Bob Badass cop "You better hope you don't make me use the club, peasant!" comment.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:37:34 PM EDT
Here is one from around my neck of the woods. The officer involved is a damn fine LEO.

Tazer suit
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:55:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Really? So if I die from being tazed I'm going to wish I had some stitches instead from your night stick. You sure about that? I happen to have a hereditary heart condition and would be in the high risk category for ending up dead if some cop tazed me.



Your hereditary heart condition is your problem not mine. Avoid confrontaions with the police where you would put yourself in that situation and you will be fine. A big adrenaline dump could punch your ticket as well and I am gathering that getting into a fight with a cop is going to dump a whole bunch of adrenaline into your system.

Case in point: officer from an agency in my jurisdiction ended up fighting with a felon wanted on warrants during a traffic stop. Suspect was struck, OC'd and finally taken into custody. And he died. Not from Postitional Asphyxia (which by the way, was the great Hue and Cry over OC...you remember that? Of course you don't. OC kills people according to the media) but rather due to the fact that he went into cardiac arrest during the fight.

There is no way that I can stop and ask for current medical information, allegergies and next of kin before I start to dance with some guy. Further, there is no way for me to unequivicoally state that a person I have to fight with isn't going to die and until someone invents a magic Phaser, we have to work with the tools we have.


Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
If someone is wielding an edged weapon, or threatening suicide or whatever else that hand to hand isn’t viable then a tazer vice a gun is fine. Otherwise tazing a pissed off school girl, an old grandma, and a drunken redneck who is getting a DUI is out of line. I don't care what any agencies policies are; it’s exactly my point those policies are out of whack



School girl and grandma are no-gos and you are 100% correct about that. Drunk redneck? Look out, cause I'm gonna zap his ass. If you'd ever fought with a drunk, you know why.


Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
I know that cops feel that it’s a tool that lets them keep safe distances and have no contact submission. It protects their lives yada yada. So does having a shoot to kill policy on anyone breaking the law, prevents the chance a cop will get hurt or killed in the line of duty.



It's just exactly that. A tool. Your perception of the Taser's lethalthality is HUGELY out of whack.


Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
But such a policy is unacceptable in this country. Tazing anyone and everyone is also unacceptable JUST to prevent physical contact to cuff someone. Being a cop is a dangerous business, and you just got to accept that sometimes your going to ground with someone.



Well....that's funny, because it's the PUBLIC that demands that we never punch, kick, strike or look mean at people. It's the public that demands that we never break a bone or bust a lip. That's brutality. I hate to break it to you, but that's fighting. It is a dangroues job and I fight with people all the time. I'm just coming back to full duty after taking a 40 cal FMJ through my right bicep and breaking my right hand in the ensuing fight. I didn't shoot the guy that shot me. I broke his jaw.


Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Sometimes it IS warranted, but in 90% of the documented uses it hasn't been warranted.



That is just an out and out lie. Perhaps, in 90% of the cases you have heard about on the T.V., in your opinion, it has been unwarranted. There is no way you have access to every report written by every agency in this country every time they tase someone. I've tased a whole bunch of people and guess what....those are never on the news. None of them died. The worst injury was a guy busting his nose when he hit the ground. He was a big, sloppy, agitated drunk and if we had gone hand to hand with him, he would have most likely gotten a lot worse.

You people need to wake up and realize that the media is feeding you a line of horseshit when it comes to Tasers.

Before Tasers, it was the Great Positional Asphyxia Scare with O.C. Do you see ANYONE talking about OC deaths these days? No.

The media reports what is sensational. Get over it.



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 11:58:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
I think his (not so) thinkly veiled insult was aimed at your Billy Bob Badass cop "You better hope you don't make me use the club, peasant!" comment.



It was not a Billy Bob Badass Cop statement. It was a statement of fact. Getting hit with the stick causes damage, can rupture the skin and most certainly break bones.

The taser is momentary, intense pain.


See, simple.

back at ya.



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 12:24:50 AM EDT
you're no fun...
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 12:36:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
you're no fun...



You should see me at work.



I'm electric.



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 12:52:11 AM EDT
I wish I could pull the "If you dont like tasers, dont commit crimes" line, but that is just like saying "we shouldnt help you out of the well because it is your fault vor falling in in the first place." Even then, if you dont want to get tazed, then DONT GET GOT DAMN TAZED. if you need to be a criminal, dont be a dick about it.

The door swings both ways with this shit.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:06:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
I'm just not seeing it. Burns, yes, I've seen scars about 1/2 inch diameter from the probes. The rest of it is a training issue. If you don't let people fall onto the fllor during taser quals, this won't happen. They should be suing the departments that allowed them to train in a way that they could be injured.



Interesting, considering we hear quite often how safe a taser is because cops allow themselves to be shocked, but now we find out that it is a pretty controlled set of circumstance they do it in.... even taping the probes in some cases.

Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:10:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 2:11:34 AM EDT by cmoth]
This is for the mook who has requested a wrestling match instead of being tased.

While your inhibitions are reduced due to your VOLUNTARY use of alcohol (which makes everything you do your fault btw) what makes me think you won't grab for my gun while your at it in your drunken haize.

Piss on you. I'm not going to risk my own injury because your an ignorant drunk asshole. I've got a wife and kids that I WILL be going home to.

I guess what we should do is stop looking for alternative forms of restraint and just go back to the days when you either complied, got the hell beat out of you or got shot.

Remember: The reason behind the taser is due to people suing due to anything and everything having to do with force. I don't have to just concern myself with what YOU think but society.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:01:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Interesting, considering we hear quite often how safe a taser is because cops allow themselves to be shocked, but now we find out that it is a pretty controlled set of circumstance they do it in.... even taping the probes in some cases.




We don't tape the probes on and no agency that I train does so either. Come on folks, I am asking that you apply some common sense to this and do your own damn research.

How many times are Tasers used across the country every day? Hundreds. How many deaths has the media trotted out since widespread use of Tasers began in LE? A dozen or so?

Look at suspect/officer injuries and the reduction that occurs AFTER agencies field the Taser, as well and the reduction is use of force complains, not to mention shootings. The reductions are drastic. Fewer officer/suspect injuries, FAR fewer shootins and far fewer complains of excessive force.

Why is it that people can be rational and logical here on this site when it comes to gun laws and the stupidity inhernt in just about all of them, but when it comes to Tasers, you just blindly spit out what the media has programmed into you?



Sheep
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:11:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 3:14:44 AM EDT by Garand_Shooter]

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Interesting, considering we hear quite often how safe a taser is because cops allow themselves to be shocked, but now we find out that it is a pretty controlled set of circumstance they do it in.... even taping the probes in some cases.




We don't tape the probes on and no agency that I train does so either. Come on folks, I am asking that you apply some common sense to this and do your own damn research.



Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:


Been tased 3 times in training. 2 were with the prongs taped to me, the third I was shot in the back at about 6 yards. No ill effects here. And no, I was crazy BEFORE I got my hits.




Obviously some agences do so.


How many times are Tasers used across the country every day? Hundreds. How many deaths has the media trotted out since widespread use of Tasers began in LE? A dozen or so?

Look at suspect/officer injuries and the reduction that occurs AFTER agencies field the Taser, as well and the reduction is use of force complains, not to mention shootings. The reductions are drastic. Fewer officer/suspect injuries, FAR fewer shootins and far fewer complains of excessive force.

Why is it that people can be rational and logical here on this site when it comes to gun laws and the stupidity inhernt in just about all of them, but when it comes to Tasers, you just blindly spit out what the media has programmed into you?

Sheep



All I was commenting on was the fact that police often hype that they get tased as part of training as evidince that is is not dangerous, yet they have a controlled situation that officers here have pointed out is needed to prevent injuries. But the perception they cast on the public is that all situations are equal.

I wasn't commenting on the taser, just how departments sell it to the public.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:15:30 AM EDT
The SO here had 6 deputies lay down side by side, lock arms, put one probe on one guys arm (tape) and the other at the other end.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:28:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2005 3:32:40 AM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:

Interesting, considering we hear quite often how safe a taser is because cops allow themselves to be shocked, but now we find out that it is a pretty controlled set of circumstance they do it in.... even taping the probes in some cases.

Originally Posted By RABIDFOX50:


Been tased 3 times in training. 2 were with the prongs taped to me, the third I was shot in the back at about 6 yards. No ill effects here. And no, I was crazy BEFORE I got my hits.




Obviously some agences do so.
How many times are Tasers used across the country every day? Hundreds. How many deaths has the media trotted out since widespread use of Tasers began in LE? A dozen or so?

Look at suspect/officer injuries and the reduction that occurs AFTER agencies field the Taser, as well and the reduction is use of force complains, not to mention shootings. The reductions are drastic. Fewer officer/suspect injuries, FAR fewer shootins and far fewer complains of excessive force.

Why is it that people can be rational and logical here on this site when it comes to gun laws and the stupidity inhernt in just about all of them, but when it comes to Tasers, you just blindly spit out what the media has programmed into you?

Sheep



All I was commenting on was the fact that police often hype that they get tased as part of training as evidince that is is not dangerous, yet they have a controlled situation that officers here have pointed out is needed to prevent injuries. But the perception they cast on the public is that all situations are equal.

I wasn't commenting on the taser, just how departments sell it to the public.



Sorry, it's late, I'm getting a little frazzled in this thread. Yes, many agencies do tape on the probes. The actual risk of sustaining a burn is more prevalent when you tape the probes on.

And also, yes, in training, when you get zapped, you go down. Some guys can control it, others just flop like a fish, which is why you do it either on mats or have catchers. Obviously, this is a no-go on the street.

I'll also agree with you about how departments are selling the device to the public, as if it is some great wonder of wonders. Instead, they should be explaining that no matter what you do, fighting with the police is in and of itself, a risky proposition and the Taser is so far, the best way to stop said fight without beating the tar out of you. Most Police Admin types are politcal hacks who wouldn't known their ass from a hole in the wall and are scared shitless of actually telling the public that fighting with the popo will get you hurt, one way or another.

Lastly, my "believing media hype" was not directed at you, but towards the rest of the rather zelous folks who continue to trump the same tired old line.

It really breaks down like this.

I can spray you, but it's still gonna be a fight. In fights things get broke. If it gets bad enough, you might get shot.

I can stick you. If it gets bad enough, you are going to be in a world of hurt that doesn't go away as soon as I stop sticking you. This confrontation can also lead to getting shot.

I can wrestle with you. See above 2 choices.

Or, I can tase you, drop you instantly to the ground and render you incapable of resisting, thereby eliminating OC, stick, wrestling and/or shooting.



Sheep

Editing to add: This is my last hurrah in here.

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