news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=2461932005

Police accused of acting as though speed limits don't apply to them

MICHAEL HOWIE

POLICE officers were accused yesterday of believing they have "carte blanche" to break the speed limit as figures revealed only a tiny fraction of officers caught are brought to book.

Thousands of officers in Scotland trigger speed cameras every year - yet only a handful are fined or face tougher action.

The statistics also reveal huge variations in the number of speeding cases in neighbouring forces, and in how senior officers decide to deal with them.

In Lothian and Borders, 2,272 marked cars triggered speed cameras last year but no action was taken against any officer. Of 78 unmarked cars which broke the limit, three were given £60 fixed penalties, with nine further cases outstanding.

However, in Dumfries and Galloway, which has a police force one-sixth the size of Lothian and Borders, 15 officers were fined for speeding.

In the vast majority of cases, officers were exempted from fixed penalty fines and prosecution because they were speeding on a 999 call or on other operational duties. Of the five Scottish forces which supplied details of police cars caught speeding, only 34 - 1.2 per cent - were fined, taken to court or still had cases pending.

Lothian and Borders had the fourth-highest rate of officers caught speeding across the United Kingdom, with 0.82 incidents per officer. The force was behind Essex, with 3.26 incidents per officer, Bedfordshire (2.04) and Staffordshire (0.91), and tied with the Metropolitan Police, according to the figures obtained by Press Association under freedom of information legislation.

Police stressed they had to deal with thousands of emergencies every year, some of which require officers to exceed the speed limit.

Motoring organisations, however, voiced alarm at the figures. The RAC Foundation said the results showed some forces police were over-using the exemption powers. The group's head of traffic and road safety, Kevin Delaney, who was a policeman for 30 years, said: "The exemption rules are widely misunderstood by rank-and-file officers as giving them a carte blanche exemption from the speed limit when driving a police vehicle.

"That is clearly wrong and suggests that something is wrong with police driver training. Forces with the lowest number of camera triggers and higher proportions of officers refused an exemption have clearly taken a stand on this."

Neil Greig, head of policy in Scotland for the AA Motoring Trust, said police appeared not to be applying traffic laws evenly.

"I think the vast majority of motorists understand that marked police cars responding to emergencies may be required to break the speed limit. But the number of exemptions given to police in some forces does concern me.

"The figures would suggest inconsistency in the way police who break the speed limit are treated. There should be consistency across Scotland and the UK."

A spokeswoman for Lothian and Borders Police said: "The public expect the police to respond quickly and safely to incidents and as such there are occasions when police will set off speed cameras."

That message was echoed by Kenny MacAskill, the SNP's justice spokesman and Lothians MSP, which called for police to be given "a bit of latitude".

"They're on duty to serve and protect the public and there are instances where speeding is required. It's a matter for senior officers to sort out the cases where exceeding the speed limit has been necessary from others where it is unacceptable, as it is for everyone else."

PC Norman Brennan, head of the campaign group Protect the Protectors, said: "Officers are exempt from speed limits if complying with them would slow their response time when attending an emergency with a view to saving lives or arresting someone committing a crime.

"However, if whilst responding to an emergency call an accident occurs, police officers are subject to road traffic regulations and prosecution like any other motorist."

Ever read some of the police forums around the net?  It's considered taboo to ticket "your own".

United Kingdom =

A few years ago one of the Nashville TN TV news stations did an expose on NPD using their patrol cars as high speed grocery getters and flying through traffic lights with their light bar going to go take the kids to (whatever) practice.
One cop had the gall to tell the newsies that traffic laws don't apply to cops.

After the scuttlebutt got around about the news stations following police cars and clocking them with a radar gun as they flew around town on personal errands, the cops started giving "taking pictures from the roadside" citations to the newsies.

The cop with the "traffic laws don't apply to us" got a one month suspension without pay.

Ha! Unintended consequences bites them in the ass!

I'd love to see them crawl everywhere except 911 calls.

Quoted: Ever read some of the police forums around the net?  It's considered taboo to ticket "your own".

Wouldn't that make police officers some of the most despicable scum for exploiting such a sentiment?

Your papers, please, citizen.



I couldn't count the number of times I've seen officers flash their lightbars to "legally" get through a red light, then turn the lightbar off on the other side of the intersection.  I don't see a problem with cracking down on those types of assholes.

Edit:  I've been baited to speed too.  I'll be driving next to a cruiser on the freeway and he'll slowly notch up his speed and I, wanting to blend in with the flow of traffic, will follow suit.  Luckily I notice myself before they can ticket me for speeding.  No, I'm not joking about this, it's happened to me personally 3 times.  When they see me slow back down again they take off to try it on someone else.

Quoted: United Kingdom =

American cops are just as big a bunch of assholes.  Especially the Ohio State Highway Patrol.  What a bunch of losers on a power trip.

I thought the biggest highway JBTs were the NJ State Police.  That was until I moved to Ohio.

Quoted: American cops are just as big a bunch of assholes.  Especially the Ohio State Highway Patrol.  What a bunch of losers on a power trip. I thought the biggest highway JBTs were the NJ State Police.  That was until I moved to Ohio.

Ohio HP wants their own armored vehicles too.  Wasn't one of the worst speedtraps in the US in Ohio?  This might be the story I was trying to remember, was on Dateline or something few years back www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/03/28/loc_cities_win_back.html

How about the Louisiana cops who were confiscating out of state vehicles for going five over the speed limit and auctioning them off?

Quoted: Quoted: American cops are just as big a bunch of assholes.  Especially the Ohio State Highway Patrol.  What a bunch of losers on a power trip. I thought the biggest highway JBTs were the NJ State Police.  That was until I moved to Ohio. Ohio HP wants their own armored vehicles too.  Wasn't one of the worst speedtraps in the US in Ohio?  This might be the story I was trying to remember, was on Dateline or something few years back www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/03/28/loc_cities_win_back.html

A town west of Columbus IIRC called New Rome.  It was in Car and Driver twice too.  

Quoted: Quoted: American cops are just as big a bunch of assholes.  Especially the Ohio State Highway Patrol.  What a bunch of losers on a power trip. I thought the biggest highway JBTs were the NJ State Police.  That was until I moved to Ohio. Ohio HP wants their own armored vehicles too.  Wasn't one of the worst speedtraps in the US in Ohio?  This might be the story I was trying to remember, was on Dateline or something few years back www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/03/28/loc_cities_win_back.html

Yes, yes, and yes.

And the worst part of it is about 95% of Ohio drivers cower in fear of the Highway Patrol.  I've seen dumbasses going 65 in a 65 slam the brakes in front of me to 55 when they see a trooper parked in the median crossover.

This place is full of retarded drivers, and I have lived in seven states and driven all over the country.

In Texas speed limits dont apply to peace officers or members of the state legislature during their legislature periods.

Just two or three years ago a PDX cop was blazing up I-5 during rush hour, lit up, just because he felt he could.  

Another officer spotted him (I think city police, not a Stater), and joined in as backup.

So they're rolling down the highway, and eventually the second officer calls the first and says, so what's the call?  Where are we going?

He was busted and it made the papers.  I don't know if he was fined or disciplined, but there was an embarrassing stink.  The Portland papers don't have very high regard for the police force...

"Ubberflubbb"

Do you ever for one moment stop to consider that they might be going to a call that warrents a speedy response but do not want to "advertise" they are coming...I.E. "the element of suprise"????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I just FUCKING LOVE when asshats who have no concept of how we (fire/police) do our jobs want to tell us how to do our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perfect example....we had a resident that lives across the street of a house that had a fire tape the whole incident from his sidewalk.  You should have heard his dumbass wife comment on everything from how far away the hydrant was to why we were breaking windows out.  

Just because we don't have our lights and sirens on doesn't mean we aren't on a call and need to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time.

And I'm not saying every cop or fireman is perfect...but at least know what they might be doing before selling them down the river

Quoted: In Texas speed limits dont apply to peace officers or members of the state legislature during their legislature periods.

No and Yes.

Texas peace officers are exempt from speed limits while on duty AND where the circumstances require exceeding the limit.  Designated Emergency Vehicles (fire, ems etc) are also exempt under the same statute but the DUE CARE clause remains in effect.  

The legislature is also exempt while traveling to and from their home to the capitol while they are in session only.  There's a few other obscure parts for the legislature as well, but I don't recall them from the Transportation Code at the moment.
~m38a1

Quoted: In Texas speed limits dont apply to peace officers or members of the state legislature during their legislature periods.

That is because Texas does not have absolute speed limits.

Quoted: The legislature is also exempt while traveling to and from their home to the capitol while they are in session only.

All animals are created equal.  But some are more equal than others.

Quoted: "Ubberflubbb" Do you ever for one moment stop to consider that they might be going to a call that warrents a speedy response but do not want to "advertise" they are coming...I.E. "the element of suprise"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I just FUCKING LOVE when asshats who have no concept of how we (fire/police) do our jobs want to tell us how to do our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfect example....we had a resident that lives across the street of a house that had a fire tape the whole incident from his sidewalk.  You should have heard his dumbass wife comment on everything from how far away the hydrant was to why we were breaking windows out.   Just because we don't have our lights and sirens on doesn't mean we aren't on a call and need to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. And I'm not saying every cop or fireman is perfect...but at least know what they might be doing before selling them down the river

I'm sure that happens sometimes.  But here's what I *saw* just last week here in Indy.  I was sitting at an intersection, and a cop cut me off, ran the red light, and then pulled into a gas station.  Once the light changed, I went to the gas station to see what was up.  The cop was buying a pack of cigarettes.  

Also, I might add, police and fire may do the "code 2 and a half" thing where traffic is light but they know they will have an extended wait at a bad intersection and light up but then shut down.

Also, what happens very often is units get dispatched code 3 and after going thru a few lights they get cancelled by a closer unit that becomes available

Quoted: How about the Louisiana cops who were confiscating out of state vehicles for going five over the speed limit and auctioning them off?

Link?

Quoted: "Ubberflubbb" Do you ever for one moment stop to consider that they might be going to a call that warrents a speedy response but do not want to "advertise" they are coming...I.E. "the element of suprise"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I just FUCKING LOVE when asshats who have no concept of how we (fire/police) do our jobs want to tell us how to do our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfect example....we had a resident that lives across the street of a house that had a fire tape the whole incident from his sidewalk.  You should have heard his dumbass wife comment on everything from how far away the hydrant was to why we were breaking windows out.   Just because we don't have our lights and sirens on doesn't mean we aren't on a call and need to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. And I'm not saying every cop or fireman is perfect...but at least know what they might be doing before selling them down the river

Where you are going requires you to break the speed limit EVERY FUCKING TIME?  That's the OHSP for you.

I talk about what I know, and I know the OHSP is NOT so busy that they need to drive 80+ everywhere 90% of the time.

Quoted: Quoted: In Texas speed limits dont apply to peace officers or members of the state legislature during their legislature periods. That is because Texas does not have absolute speed limits.

Dunno, that ticket on 35E in Dallas doing 83 in a 60 seemed pretty absolute.

Quoted: Quoted: How about the Louisiana cops who were confiscating out of state vehicles for going five over the speed limit and auctioning them off? Link?

That's gotta be internet BS!

Quoted: Quoted: American cops are just as big a bunch of assholes.  Especially the Ohio State Highway Patrol.  What a bunch of losers on a power trip. I thought the biggest highway JBTs were the NJ State Police.  That was until I moved to Ohio. Ohio HP wants their own armored vehicles too.  Wasn't one of the worst speedtraps in the US in Ohio?  This might be the story I was trying to remember, was on Dateline or something few years back www.enquirer.com/editions/1999/03/28/loc_cities_win_back.html

And if you asked an OHSP,off the record,they would rather have a bigger paycheck!

WHAT??? COPS SPEED? NO WAY???  Maybe you should take a stroll down Route 90 in MA....I see State Troopes doing 100+ in a 65....no lights...nothing...just motoring along like there a sale on doughnuts...

I bet a particular departments chief has a lot to do with this sort of thing.  In the Dallas area I have noticed some cities have really great, friendly officers (ex. Allen), but some cities (ex. Plano) have a really unpleasant, and in my experience, unprofessional police force.  Dallas cops are generally great, they have serious crime to worry about and are almost always only interested in helping people be safe.  A friend of a friend who is a Dallas PD officer works the Harry Hines area (Cheap hookers) and regularly drives hookers home after they get beat up by johns.  He could careless about what they do for money he just doesn’t want anyone to get hurt.  I think that is the mark of a good cop.

Quoted: I bet a particular departments chief has a lot to do with this sort of thing.  In the Dallas area I have noticed some cities have really great, friendly officers (ex. Allen), but some cities (ex. Plano) have a really unpleasant, and in my experience, unprofessional police force.  Dallas cops are generally great, they have serious crime to worry about and are almost always only interested in helping people be safe.  A friend of a friend who is a Dallas OPD officer works the Harry Hines area (Cheap hookers) and regularly drives hookers home after they get beat up by johns.  He could careless about what they do for money he just doesn’t want anyone to get hurt.  I think that is the mark of a good cop.

Look at Plano, reminds me of some parts of California.  Police are expected to act like assholes in libby areas.

Quoted: I bet a particular departments chief has a lot to do with this sort of thing.  In the Dallas area I have noticed some cities have really great, friendly officers (ex. Allen), but some cities (ex. Plano) have a really unpleasant, and in my experience, unprofessional police force.  Dallas cops are generally great, they have serious crime to worry about and are almost always only interested in helping people be safe.  A friend of a friend who is a Dallas OPD officer works the Harry Hines area (Cheap hookers) and regularly drives hookers home after they get beat up by johns.  He could careless about what they do for money he just doesn’t want anyone to get hurt.  I think that is the mark of a good cop.

Good ol Harry Hines! I see nothing's changed! Used to live off Northwest Highway! Now all Mexican.

Quoted: Police are expected to act like assholes in libby areas.

Wow, there's a whole "chicken-and-the-egg" discussion to be had right there!

Quoted: Quoted: I bet a particular departments chief has a lot to do with this sort of thing.  In the Dallas area I have noticed some cities have really great, friendly officers (ex. Allen), but some cities (ex. Plano) have a really unpleasant, and in my experience, unprofessional police force.  Dallas cops are generally great, they have serious crime to worry about and are almost always only interested in helping people be safe.  A friend of a friend who is a Dallas OPD officer works the Harry Hines area (Cheap hookers) and regularly drives hookers home after they get beat up by johns.  He could careless about what they do for money he just doesn’t want anyone to get hurt.  I think that is the mark of a good cop. Look at Plano, reminds me of some parts of California.  Police are expected to act like assholes in libby areas.

Plano is heavily Republican.  Very much Christian Right.  At the same time I would say most of the soccer moms are probably anti-gun.  But liberal Plano is not.  

Quoted: "Ubberflubbb" Do you ever for one moment stop to consider that they might be going to a call that warrents a speedy response but do not want to "advertise" they are coming...I.E. "the element of suprise"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I just FUCKING LOVE when asshats who have no concept of how we (fire/police) do our jobs want to tell us how to do our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfect example....we had a resident that lives across the street of a house that had a fire tape the whole incident from his sidewalk.  You should have heard his dumbass wife comment on everything from how far away the hydrant was to why we were breaking windows out.   Just because we don't have our lights and sirens on doesn't mean we aren't on a call and need to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. And I'm not saying every cop or fireman is perfect...but at least know what they might be doing before selling them down the river

You must go through report forms like popcorn with all that punctuation.

And no, I don't think that at all because they are going the speed limit before and after the stoplight.  If they were in a hurry, they'd be going faster, and they could leave the lights on without the siren.

Quoted: soccer moms

Thats the word I was looking for.  Thanks.  Plano and Austin are about as close to the Axis of American evil as I like to get, and look at me in a occupied state right now...

Thats nothing new. Here, the cops speed everywhere as well as blow the stop signs, on or off duty and if you complain, plan on getting pulled over ALOT. It's a small mountain community and there's no where to go to stay away from trouble with the cops if you show up on their "radar" as a complainer. Should you complain about it, you had better give up on ever driving to: work, the gas station, the grocery store, the post office (No local mail delivery here) or anywhere for that matter. It's never happened to me as I've never complained, but, its happened to plenty of friends and neighbors.

Of course there are some that abuse their power, to include driving over the limit and red light running. My fav was one that went by me [Mi State Police Jackson Post] on Elm street doing at least 65 in a 45. He then pulled into the State police Post. Got to work and called the post and asked if they got the riot or fight taken care of at the post. Got a what? Answered with "well, I figured something was up as one of the officers was doing at least 20 over on the way to the post. " Speeding for no good reason just breeds contempt for the law and the officers who write tickets to those without a badge. And before the apologists pop up, there were a few that wrote tickets quite regularly and drove within the limits unless they were "working". I can respect that.

Quoted: How about the Louisiana cops who were confiscating out of state vehicles for going five over the speed limit and auctioning them off?

And when the story about that was posted here, many of the posters supported taking the cars.   There are way too many JBT supporters and liberals here.z

Quoted: Thats nothing new. Here, the cops speed everywhere as well as blow the stop signs, on or off duty and if you complain, plan on getting pulled over ALOT. It's a small mountain community and there's no where to go to stay away from trouble with the cops if you show up on their "radar" as a complainer. Should you complain about it, you had better give up on ever driving to: work, the gas station, the grocery store, the post office (No local mail delivery here) or anywhere for that matter. It's never happened to me as I've never complained, but, its happened to plenty of friends and neighbors.

Just out of curiousity, is the local police chief elected or appointed? Maybe the voters could vote in someone more responsive to community complaints? Disregard this if you have a appointed yahoo. Get alot of people to pressure the local mayor to make the chief do his job? Or is the corruption too bad?

No flame intended, just pointy questions.

Quoted: Ever read some of the police forums around the net?  It's considered taboo to ticket "your own".

i have a "Son" badge... i have been pulled over many times.. speeding.. running red's... i have never gottin a ticket...

Quoted:

Plano is heavily Republican.  Very much Christian Right.  At the same time I would say most of the soccer moms are probably anti-gun.  But liberal Plano is not.

Sam Johnson (R-TX) is OUR Man in Washington DC!

Collin County gave President Bush one of the highest percentages for Re-election in 2004 in the US!



Eric The(WeAreRight)Hun

Quoted: "Ubberflubbb" Do you ever for one moment stop to consider that they might be going to a call that warrents a speedy response but do not want to "advertise" they are coming...I.E. "the element of suprise"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? I just FUCKING LOVE when asshats who have no concept of how we (fire/police) do our jobs want to tell us how to do our jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfect example....we had a resident that lives across the street of a house that had a fire tape the whole incident from his sidewalk.  You should have heard his dumbass wife comment on everything from how far away the hydrant was to why we were breaking windows out.   Just because we don't have our lights and sirens on doesn't mean we aren't on a call and need to get somewhere in a reasonable amount of time. And I'm not saying every cop or fireman is perfect...but at least know what they might be doing before selling them down the river

dude, don't even bother.